Somali pirates caught by Russian Navy
Originally Posted by Airborne Aircrew
Simple fact is that they are operating outside the law be it in the legal or moral sense and that automatically makes us "better". What we do subsequently is utterly irrelevant to the equation.
Suspicion breeds confidence
These people are terrorists, more accurately Illegal Enemy Combatants and as such have no rights in international waters. My example of blasting every pirate skiff out of the water is no different to our hero snipers taking out Taliban without warning. They fund terrorists that makes them terrorists plain and simple. If I was back in uniform and with suitable ROE, I would have no hesitation in exterminating every single one of them. That would solve the piracy problem once and for all as well as feed the fish.
Navaleye,
They are not terrorists, or legal OR illegal combatants. They are either criminals or potential criminals. Your 'example' is sheer murder, pure and simple. As the average pirate does not kill anyone you are making the punishment far FAR worse than the actual criminal event, thus making a total mockery of the law.
By your warped logic, you'd better start ordering up strikes on Irish bars and pubs in New York and Chicago as well as every city in Saudi Arabia, from whence a great deal of terrorist funding has also originated.
So very glad that you are NOT currently in uniform.
They are not terrorists, or legal OR illegal combatants. They are either criminals or potential criminals. Your 'example' is sheer murder, pure and simple. As the average pirate does not kill anyone you are making the punishment far FAR worse than the actual criminal event, thus making a total mockery of the law.
By your warped logic, you'd better start ordering up strikes on Irish bars and pubs in New York and Chicago as well as every city in Saudi Arabia, from whence a great deal of terrorist funding has also originated.
So very glad that you are NOT currently in uniform.
Suspicion breeds confidence
As the average pirate does not kill anyone
Your limp-wristed hug a pirate policy actually perpetuates the problem because while we remain ineffective and do nothing then they will carry on.
Until they either a) don't come back or b) wash up on a beach they will keep at it. My solution is cheap and would be very effective very quickly. It might do you out of some customers though
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l voted conservative, but did not support Cameron`s government ( not voted in, by any means ) they have managed to jail people for up to two years for handling a stolen bottle of milk.
The muslims caught red handed - no pun intended - wanting to explode the **** out of us were given less, dozens are out on the streets now.
Message ? leave the fat arsed, gay, troubled government ministers alone or else.
Pirates are easily dealt with, the Royal Navy had centuries of expertise before being emasculated by 9 to 5 fat butted social workers during Tony Blair`s years.
l do believe we are sinking but nobody seems to have noticed.
The muslims caught red handed - no pun intended - wanting to explode the **** out of us were given less, dozens are out on the streets now.
Message ? leave the fat arsed, gay, troubled government ministers alone or else.
Pirates are easily dealt with, the Royal Navy had centuries of expertise before being emasculated by 9 to 5 fat butted social workers during Tony Blair`s years.
l do believe we are sinking but nobody seems to have noticed.
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Apart from Naveleye of course.
Anyone out there remember what happened in the former Yugoslavia during the early nineties when people were forced at gunpoint to chew off their family members private parts ?
900 miles from the UK. Bulldozers to hide the bodies.
lf my taxes don`t protect me, then l will do it myself.
Anyone out there remember what happened in the former Yugoslavia during the early nineties when people were forced at gunpoint to chew off their family members private parts ?
900 miles from the UK. Bulldozers to hide the bodies.
lf my taxes don`t protect me, then l will do it myself.
Suspicion breeds confidence
The pirates have killed 11 merchant seamen alone just this year. 4.5 Engage!
I have had some flak for excessive use of ammunition. One round VT, two rounds Direct Action should suffice.
I have had some flak for excessive use of ammunition. One round VT, two rounds Direct Action should suffice.
Last edited by Navaleye; 16th Oct 2011 at 17:08.
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Pr00ne, I think I knew a soft, wet and drippy tomb driver in RAFG some years ago....not you I hope!
It's crap like that coming from the legal profession that leaves me cold and frightened. I've not got that long on this earth but I do worry for my sons and grandkids, and dearly hope that the nation's leaders eventually get the balls to stop the rot!
Perhaps you could expand or explain?
What defines an average pirate?
As the average pirate does not kill anyone
the punishment far FAR worse than the actual criminal event,
What defines an average pirate?
Last edited by Romeo Oscar Golf; 16th Oct 2011 at 19:29.
Countering one atrocity with another reduces us to their level
Perfectly acceptable response.
Kill every pirate on the spot. Commander of the intercepting vessel decides summarily whether they are pirates or not. I think I could make that decision and authorise the response.
Possibly consider, if helicopter available, taking the bad boys, suitably restrained, and dropping them over selected villages.
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Basil
"Possibly consider, if helicopter available, taking the bad boys, suitably restrained, and dropping them over selected villages. "
Shades of Rhodesia ?
While off topics, while mentioning Rhodesia, it is interesting to think how long it took the US / UK to come up with and made the V shaped hull to protect against mines when it was used in the 70's.
.
"Possibly consider, if helicopter available, taking the bad boys, suitably restrained, and dropping them over selected villages. "
Shades of Rhodesia ?
While off topics, while mentioning Rhodesia, it is interesting to think how long it took the US / UK to come up with and made the V shaped hull to protect against mines when it was used in the 70's.
.
Originally Posted by Daily Express 16 Oct 2011
BRITISH forces have foiled Somali pirates for the second time in days as their new aggressive policy gains momentum. Royal Marines from HMS Somerset boarded a large fishing dhow being used as a “mothership” base for launching armed raids on merchant shipping.
It was revealed yesterday that the frigate’s captain, Commander Paul Bristowe, ordered the attack after Somerset’s helicopter had shadowed the suspect vessel in the Indian Ocean 100 miles off the Somali coast. The boarding party rescued the Pakistani crew being held hostage by the Somali gang, who had seized the vessel. The pirates surrendered and were transferred to a US warship...
Your limp-wristed hug a pirate policy actually perpetuates the problem because while we remain ineffective and do nothing then they will carry on.
Obama was going to send the FBI to the Maersk Alabama scene to negotiate with the Pirates....the on-site Commander used his ROE's to remedy the situation by turning the SEAL's loose. A few rifle shots to the heads of the Pirates and the Alabama Captain was a free Man.
Bravo Zulu to the SEAL's and the Naval Officer with a pair of balls!
rh200,
Of course people keep paying up, try going in and releasing them and you’d get a lot of people killed, THEN the price would really go up!
Romeo Oscar Golf.
Possibly, though it was pre air defence days. Not sure about soft and wet and drippy, my job was to turn SAM sites and the like to irradiated waste dumps, not sure that there was TOO much soft wet and drippy about that.
As to the 'crap coming from the legal profession', the City of London, where an awful lot of this is managed from, take advice from the military and the likes of the UN.
What defines an average pirate? Not entirely sure but of the roughly 250 folk currently held hostage I suspect that there is little danger of those folk dying unless the likes of Navaleye and SASless get their way.
Hundreds of crews and passengers have been hijacked over the years and very little harm has come to them.
Don’t get me wrong, I am no advocate of piracy nor do I condone it. Robust self protection is fine by me, including the use of deadly force if appropriate. I am just massively against the ridiculous and murderous nonsense of opening fire on a suspicious vessel with something like a 4.5” gun.
Basil,
They are not the enemy and no one is waging war. It’s criminal activity for financial gain.
Cold blooded murder as you suggest would achieve diddly squat. Thankfully you and the likes of you are not making any response and are authorising nothing of the sort.
Navaleye and SASless,
You are merely advocating discriminate cold blooded murder. You engage these suspected pirate vessels with the likes of a 4.5” gun and you are going to be killing innocents by the score. Take a look at the actual facts of recent captures and interventions. They are stack full of tales of these vessels containing captured hostages, crews of Somali fishing vessels, dhows and whalers who have been forced at gun point to run the ships, families of said crews are often on board as well. That doesn't even begin to cover the terrible prospect of misinformation and misidentified ships.
As a few other posters have said, thankfully you two are retired and no longer able to commit such acts of gross criminal neglect. I think you should be grateful. Should you have been able to adopt the policies you advocate, you would both be serving time in prison for murder.
overun,
You are either 13 or just plain weird.
Of course people keep paying up, try going in and releasing them and you’d get a lot of people killed, THEN the price would really go up!
Romeo Oscar Golf.
Possibly, though it was pre air defence days. Not sure about soft and wet and drippy, my job was to turn SAM sites and the like to irradiated waste dumps, not sure that there was TOO much soft wet and drippy about that.
As to the 'crap coming from the legal profession', the City of London, where an awful lot of this is managed from, take advice from the military and the likes of the UN.
What defines an average pirate? Not entirely sure but of the roughly 250 folk currently held hostage I suspect that there is little danger of those folk dying unless the likes of Navaleye and SASless get their way.
Hundreds of crews and passengers have been hijacked over the years and very little harm has come to them.
Don’t get me wrong, I am no advocate of piracy nor do I condone it. Robust self protection is fine by me, including the use of deadly force if appropriate. I am just massively against the ridiculous and murderous nonsense of opening fire on a suspicious vessel with something like a 4.5” gun.
Basil,
They are not the enemy and no one is waging war. It’s criminal activity for financial gain.
Cold blooded murder as you suggest would achieve diddly squat. Thankfully you and the likes of you are not making any response and are authorising nothing of the sort.
Navaleye and SASless,
You are merely advocating discriminate cold blooded murder. You engage these suspected pirate vessels with the likes of a 4.5” gun and you are going to be killing innocents by the score. Take a look at the actual facts of recent captures and interventions. They are stack full of tales of these vessels containing captured hostages, crews of Somali fishing vessels, dhows and whalers who have been forced at gun point to run the ships, families of said crews are often on board as well. That doesn't even begin to cover the terrible prospect of misinformation and misidentified ships.
As a few other posters have said, thankfully you two are retired and no longer able to commit such acts of gross criminal neglect. I think you should be grateful. Should you have been able to adopt the policies you advocate, you would both be serving time in prison for murder.
overun,
You are either 13 or just plain weird.
. . you and the likes of you . .
. . thankfully you two are retired . .
. . thankfully you two are retired . .
(suitably chastised)So we can't go and sink every barsteward who looks at us the wrong way?
. . even if it's your family on a cruise who are grabbed next?
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Of course people keep paying up, try going in and releasing them and you’d get a lot of people killed, THEN the price would really go up!
These people are not mindless brutes, they are not idelogicaly driven, they are money driven. A simple risk vs reward type of thing. You make the risk far worse than the reward, end of problem. Thats the way it used to be, and you know what it worked.
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"You are merely advocating discriminate cold blooded murder. You engage these suspected pirate vessels with the likes of a 4.5” gun and you are going to be killing innocents by the score. Take a look at the actual facts of recent captures and interventions. They are stack full of tales of these vessels containing captured hostages, crews of Somali fishing vessels, dhows and whalers who have been forced at gun point to run the ships, families of said crews are often on board as well. That doesn't even begin to cover the terrible prospect of misinformation and misidentified ships."
Pr00ne
OK, agree in some respects - and the Marines have been going onto the mother ships, capturing them and releasing the hostages (generally the crew of a ship).
How about the "mother ship" with Pirates on board is then sunk in the middle of no where.
Pr00ne
OK, agree in some respects - and the Marines have been going onto the mother ships, capturing them and releasing the hostages (generally the crew of a ship).
How about the "mother ship" with Pirates on board is then sunk in the middle of no where.