Project Sirius - Divisive or what?
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Oh well, not sure it'll make much difference. The chisellers will still be chisellers, those destined for CAS will still be CAS, and I'll still prop up the bar at happy hour and drink too much beater, and be quite happy...
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I know I shouldn't laugh but from a baldrick point of view this is as funny as ****, the notion that the vast majority of the officer cadre are going to officially be labelled as mongs.......
Please, don't shout but if you look at it from outside the box its 'kin hilarious
Please, don't shout but if you look at it from outside the box its 'kin hilarious
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This MS/ES is not really a change, it's how your Appointers have been operating for ages. They have simply put it down in writing and now all have a better understanding of where they really sit - no bad thing and it'll help many make decisions with more realistic information. There will always be problems and issues with this system, as with any other, but at least you all know where you stand.
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I think this just formalises a system that has been in place for a long time anyway. During my recent trawl for an interesting next posting I found a range of jobs that I was both keen to do and eminently qualified for. Each one had either already been reserved for a new ACSC Grad (as opposed to an old one like me and regardless of the actual experience or quals required), or was 'too punchy' for my profile. Sirius simply acknowledges how things really work and is, I think, more honest. I was, though, very disappointed that it seemed the only criteria as to whether I was suitable for a job was if my posting date coincided with the new post's availability date. My previous experience and/or aspirations never came into the equation and were not mentioned. If that is how the Main Stream is going to be managed, then I don't have a good feeling that it is going to work.
I decided there was no point being bitter - we are in a tough profession with tough rules. I consciously decided not to jump through some of the hoops placed in my way and I have to accept the consequences. As a result I can still face myself in the mirror and look colleagues in the eye with some element of self pride. I have had a great time overall and when I leave I will look back on my time in the RAF with nothing but pleasure
I think a more interesting question is - is the system fit for purpose in terms of producing the kind of leaders we need in the modern world? For a few years now, the more I have seen of very senior officers, the less I have liked them. They seem to be overwhelmingly driven by self interest rather than that of the Service or even the country. It's quite a while since I came away from a close encounter thinking 'wow! I'd like to work for them'. All the good guys are either applying for redundancy, taking options, or PVRing. If things go on this way, there will only be 'chisellers' left. And they don't care about the rest of us, and the backstabbing as they fight each other for a chance at the top is going to be awesome.
Fly safe.
I decided there was no point being bitter - we are in a tough profession with tough rules. I consciously decided not to jump through some of the hoops placed in my way and I have to accept the consequences. As a result I can still face myself in the mirror and look colleagues in the eye with some element of self pride. I have had a great time overall and when I leave I will look back on my time in the RAF with nothing but pleasure
I think a more interesting question is - is the system fit for purpose in terms of producing the kind of leaders we need in the modern world? For a few years now, the more I have seen of very senior officers, the less I have liked them. They seem to be overwhelmingly driven by self interest rather than that of the Service or even the country. It's quite a while since I came away from a close encounter thinking 'wow! I'd like to work for them'. All the good guys are either applying for redundancy, taking options, or PVRing. If things go on this way, there will only be 'chisellers' left. And they don't care about the rest of us, and the backstabbing as they fight each other for a chance at the top is going to be awesome.
Fly safe.
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Blagger
I too have heard that rumour, but I just don't see how it will work. Who will do the essential but non-career enhancing jobs? That said, attitudes to careers have changed markedly since I joined and many now aren't actually interested in staying in long term - it's more like getting the life experience tick for a few years then moving on to something new.
I too have heard that rumour, but I just don't see how it will work. Who will do the essential but non-career enhancing jobs? That said, attitudes to careers have changed markedly since I joined and many now aren't actually interested in staying in long term - it's more like getting the life experience tick for a few years then moving on to something new.
It does change a big thing in my opinion. I was promoted to Wg Cdr without going to ACSC - so were quite a few of my mates. That is, quite simply, not going to happen anymore.
The new SIRIUS system as I read it is:
ACSC + Wg Cdr = good chance of further
ACSC + Sqn Ldr = fair chance of further
No ACSC + Wg Cdr = no chance but a reasonable pension at 55 (and this will no longer happen)
No ACSC + Sqn Ldr = do not pass Go and do no collect £200 - you're f^cked
The B Word
The new SIRIUS system as I read it is:
ACSC + Wg Cdr = good chance of further
ACSC + Sqn Ldr = fair chance of further
No ACSC + Wg Cdr = no chance but a reasonable pension at 55 (and this will no longer happen)
No ACSC + Sqn Ldr = do not pass Go and do no collect £200 - you're f^cked
The B Word
Reserves
Given the recent news about a greater use of reserves, is there a hidden agenda in here somewhere?
At present, there are four (?) classes of reserves FC, HC, LC plus the Class CC, the latter being paid as civil servants but still holding a commission and being gazetted. Many Full Time Reserve Service posts are filled by guys and gals who still want to be in 'the business' but on terms which suit them.
It seems that many more posts might be designated for FTRS candidates and this would reduce the size of the Main Stream pool.
I do, however, think it dangerous to compartmentalise people. I know of many who are good leaders but hopeless staff officers and others who are the reverse. I also have a concern that, at present, there are insufficient ACSC places to service the need for Executive Stream appointments.
Given the overwhelming problems being faced by the armed forces at present, I would urge caution about introducing a new career grading system just now.
Old Duffer
At present, there are four (?) classes of reserves FC, HC, LC plus the Class CC, the latter being paid as civil servants but still holding a commission and being gazetted. Many Full Time Reserve Service posts are filled by guys and gals who still want to be in 'the business' but on terms which suit them.
It seems that many more posts might be designated for FTRS candidates and this would reduce the size of the Main Stream pool.
I do, however, think it dangerous to compartmentalise people. I know of many who are good leaders but hopeless staff officers and others who are the reverse. I also have a concern that, at present, there are insufficient ACSC places to service the need for Executive Stream appointments.
Given the overwhelming problems being faced by the armed forces at present, I would urge caution about introducing a new career grading system just now.
Old Duffer
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Old D,
Your concern is well stated; however, the system already employs an ES/MS structure in all but name. When the ES barrel runs dry, they will find a keen MS body to fill the slot - just as they do now.
Your concern is well stated; however, the system already employs an ES/MS structure in all but name. When the ES barrel runs dry, they will find a keen MS body to fill the slot - just as they do now.
Thread Starter
I haven't had such a good laugh on a Service matter for a very long time! The responses have been superb.
I think we all accept that a 2 or 3 stream system has been operating for many years - indeed, in the past more formal that perhaps this Serious (oops! Sirius) plan. We all know officers who wouldn't cut the mustard in senior staff tours and vice versa. I'm sure most of us also remember bright young things who, as junior officers, were clearly destined for a bright future and rapidly outstripped their contemporaries. However, what I suspect officers will object to (and it is a human behaviour thing) is to be labelled as 'special'.
I think we all accept that a 2 or 3 stream system has been operating for many years - indeed, in the past more formal that perhaps this Serious (oops! Sirius) plan. We all know officers who wouldn't cut the mustard in senior staff tours and vice versa. I'm sure most of us also remember bright young things who, as junior officers, were clearly destined for a bright future and rapidly outstripped their contemporaries. However, what I suspect officers will object to (and it is a human behaviour thing) is to be labelled as 'special'.
Desk Officer: 'Sqn Ldr Bloggs. I regret that you were unsuccessful in your last look at AST because of your age of 43 [can I say that?] so that means you are Main Stream now. Don't worry, we've got a really good job supervising the digitising of historic engineering records at Llangolligoch. You'll be happy there - at least 5 years - that means your [spouse/civil partner] can settle down and get a low-paid job as a care worker.'
'But wasn't I being boarded to be Assisitant Air Attache in DC?'
'But wasn't I being boarded to be Assisitant Air Attache in DC?'
'Ahh yes, we thought about that, but I am afraid that's a thruster's job thus you are no longer suitable for it'.
'Any other news?'
'Well, funny you say that, we are looking for a chap with your experience to help the Afghan Air Force digitize their Soviet-era records. Kabul's not a bad place, you know, and this tour would look good on your profile.'
Why the need to label otherwise enthusiastic, loyal and probably still-ambitious officers? It's like being given news about a slow, linger but ultimately terminal disease (and I should know). 'You might make it to Wing Commander, but chances are pretty slim these days'.
'Any other news?'
'Well, funny you say that, we are looking for a chap with your experience to help the Afghan Air Force digitize their Soviet-era records. Kabul's not a bad place, you know, and this tour would look good on your profile.'
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Whenurhappy,
You too are right, but this is what happens now:
Desk Officer: 'Sqn Ldr Bloggs. I regret that you were unsuccessful in your last look at AST because of your age of 43 [can I say that?][system now considers that you are relative slow runner - but you don't know it officially]. Don't worry, we've got a really good job supervising the digitising of historic engineering records at Llangolligoch. You'll be happy there - at least 2 years - that means your [spouse/civil partner] can't settle down and get a job'.
'But wasn't I being boarded to be Assisitant Air Attache in DC?'
'Ahh yes, we thought about that, but I am afraid that's a thruster's job thus you are no longer suitable for it'.
'Any other news?'
'Well, funny you say that, we are looking for a chap with your experience to help the Afghan Air Force digitize their Soviet-era records. Kabul's not a bad place, you know, and this tour would look good on your profile.'
With the new system, you will be better placed to make life decisions.
You too are right, but this is what happens now:
Desk Officer: 'Sqn Ldr Bloggs. I regret that you were unsuccessful in your last look at AST because of your age of 43 [can I say that?][system now considers that you are relative slow runner - but you don't know it officially]. Don't worry, we've got a really good job supervising the digitising of historic engineering records at Llangolligoch. You'll be happy there - at least 2 years - that means your [spouse/civil partner] can't settle down and get a job'.
'But wasn't I being boarded to be Assisitant Air Attache in DC?'
'Ahh yes, we thought about that, but I am afraid that's a thruster's job thus you are no longer suitable for it'.
'Any other news?'
'Well, funny you say that, we are looking for a chap with your experience to help the Afghan Air Force digitize their Soviet-era records. Kabul's not a bad place, you know, and this tour would look good on your profile.'
With the new system, you will be better placed to make life decisions.
How many times on this website have we seen people complain that they are being moved too frequently? Either it screws up their personal circumstances or it screws up continuity for the post itself.
As has been pointed out, there always has been an unofficial 2-tier system. If you didn't know which tier you were in, then you were in the lower one! But the RAF continued with the pretence that everyone had a fair shot at being CAS and thus needed to be moved every 2 years.
This seems a genuine attempt to give people stability, while still providing the rapid movement that is deemed essential for those destined for the top (tho' I'm not convinced such rapid rotation makes for a good senior officer - maybe that's why so many of them just go round in circles).
Yes, some people are going to be hacked off with being labelled. But hang on, the first thing we do when we meet someone new is look at their shoulders and then look at their chest (unless she's female, in which case the order is probably reversed). We've then instantly pigeonholed them anyway!
Ultimately, the idea's not a bad attempt - a solid B+, Yes. But the real judgement on whether this is a Mong or a Chisseler of an idea will be based on the detail of its implementation.
As has been pointed out, there always has been an unofficial 2-tier system. If you didn't know which tier you were in, then you were in the lower one! But the RAF continued with the pretence that everyone had a fair shot at being CAS and thus needed to be moved every 2 years.
This seems a genuine attempt to give people stability, while still providing the rapid movement that is deemed essential for those destined for the top (tho' I'm not convinced such rapid rotation makes for a good senior officer - maybe that's why so many of them just go round in circles).
Yes, some people are going to be hacked off with being labelled. But hang on, the first thing we do when we meet someone new is look at their shoulders and then look at their chest (unless she's female, in which case the order is probably reversed). We've then instantly pigeonholed them anyway!
Ultimately, the idea's not a bad attempt - a solid B+, Yes. But the real judgement on whether this is a Mong or a Chisseler of an idea will be based on the detail of its implementation.
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As far as I can see the only people who need to dry their eyes are the mongs who are deluded enough to want to be a chiseler or think they already are one.
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"Who will do the essential but non-career enhancing jobs?"
Historically, thats always been the dubious pleasure - nay, the raison d'etre, even - of the non-commissioned/oik side of the house...
The "9 yrs to get to the next rank or GTFO" has been a pleasure known to them for years. Granted they then get 13 years to get to Sgt or GTFO, then another 7 to Flt Sgt or GTFO and so on... but the principle remains the same.
Or rather they used to when I was in...
Then again, considering how many of 'em are being outsourced to BAe or Serco/made redundant in order to create McJobs to keep the local knuckle draggers/sorry, Labour voting client state/Civil servants off the dole, maybe these pleasures will then fall into their laps instead...
Historically, thats always been the dubious pleasure - nay, the raison d'etre, even - of the non-commissioned/oik side of the house...
The "9 yrs to get to the next rank or GTFO" has been a pleasure known to them for years. Granted they then get 13 years to get to Sgt or GTFO, then another 7 to Flt Sgt or GTFO and so on... but the principle remains the same.
Or rather they used to when I was in...
Then again, considering how many of 'em are being outsourced to BAe or Serco/made redundant in order to create McJobs to keep the local knuckle draggers/sorry, Labour voting client state/Civil servants off the dole, maybe these pleasures will then fall into their laps instead...
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As far as I can see the only people who need to dry their eyes are the mongs who are deluded enough to want to be a chiseler or think they already are one.
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istorically, thats always been the dubious pleasure - nay, the raison d'etre, even - of the non-commissioned/oik side of the house..
