Project Sirius - Divisive or what?
As Sirius is implemented, I hope that those officers on the ES stream who are selected as a Sqn cdr don't forget that it is a privilege! Moreover, if the honour to command men on operations becomes just a stepping stone to the next rank, then I think we may have truly lost the plot!
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Fast jet mates stand by. Our future leaders will need to fly in fast jet cockpits so that they can prove their mettle; if you are on the B stream then you will have one shot and then probably be sidelined. Stand by for lots of "but now you can only fly as an instructor at EFT or on a UAS" followed by the offer of a less than ideal ground tour, unless you can argue that you need that fast jet cockpit to enhance your career. This probably applies to those who are on PA Spine as well, come to think of it.....!
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I understand that the intention is for MS to spend 3-5 years on a tour providing stability for the also rans. That's great if it's in a location that suits. But what about if you're spammed with that amount of time away from home - living in a 12x6 box several hundred miles away from the family. 2 years, maybe... but up to 5? Absolute pile of poo.
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As someone who joined under just such a system, I have to say that I thought it was far better for everybody.
The RN had SL shags, and GL w@nkers. Everybody knew who was who, and everybody was happy.
The current system just makes lots of people who are really shags at heart try to become w@nkers just because it is a challenge, even though they know that they are happier with friends and a life.
The RN had SL shags, and GL w@nkers. Everybody knew who was who, and everybody was happy.
The current system just makes lots of people who are really shags at heart try to become w@nkers just because it is a challenge, even though they know that they are happier with friends and a life.
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Jabba
I am on record on this forum as a defender of the concept of mutual respect, regardless of individual Service history; check out my posts if you will. The use of the term 'oik', in the manner in which you have used it, is not acceptable, and will be viewed as offensive by many amongst this community. I expect better than this from a holder of the Queen's Commission.
For your information, NCO's also once had a 'career development path'; we were not simply there to wipe the backsides of a never-ending stream of cherubic Cranwell graduates.
HB
I am on record on this forum as a defender of the concept of mutual respect, regardless of individual Service history; check out my posts if you will. The use of the term 'oik', in the manner in which you have used it, is not acceptable, and will be viewed as offensive by many amongst this community. I expect better than this from a holder of the Queen's Commission.
For your information, NCO's also once had a 'career development path'; we were not simply there to wipe the backsides of a never-ending stream of cherubic Cranwell graduates.
HB
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Is this not just a minor extension of the change that took place about 6 years ago when the GD Branch became open to every officer when he/she reached wing commander and the old GD Branch became the Flying Branch.
Just seems like a variation on an already existing theme to my mind!
Foldie
Just seems like a variation on an already existing theme to my mind!
Foldie
Gentleman Aviator
I've just come to this thread having been on the road for a few days, so will chuck in a couple of comments.
Agree with O-D that it's in many ways a return to the old GL/SL route which we used to have - perhaps we should bring back the B exam and get 38 yo Fg Offs again.
The "fast runner" system which was used when I was a desky was purely age-on-promotion based, with no sign of an eminence grise retired AVM. IIRC if you were a Sqn Ldr before 30, Wg Cdr before 35 and/or Gp Capt before 40 you were a "fast runner" - which means if nothing else you had the time to make 2-star.
So you could get on or off the list by being promoted or not at a given age. people could (and did) fall off it and climb back on again. In practice it meant that postings had to be approved one rank higher than normal. I used to post sqn ldrs, whose posting was normally approved by the DD (a gp capt). For a fast runner it had to get the one-star tick. I believe that mutatis mutandis this system (2 ranks up for normal, 3 ranks up for "FR") continued up the system, so a fast running wg cdr would have his posting approved by Air Sec and an FR gp capt by AMP.
And another thing O-D, on your mention of reservists various! There are some RAFR (CC) remaining -
- but the branch is no longer recruited to, so will in due course wither on the vine......
...and finally ...
dctyke
... checked the C-in-C's CV lately .....?
Agree with O-D that it's in many ways a return to the old GL/SL route which we used to have - perhaps we should bring back the B exam and get 38 yo Fg Offs again.
The "fast runner" system which was used when I was a desky was purely age-on-promotion based, with no sign of an eminence grise retired AVM. IIRC if you were a Sqn Ldr before 30, Wg Cdr before 35 and/or Gp Capt before 40 you were a "fast runner" - which means if nothing else you had the time to make 2-star.
So you could get on or off the list by being promoted or not at a given age. people could (and did) fall off it and climb back on again. In practice it meant that postings had to be approved one rank higher than normal. I used to post sqn ldrs, whose posting was normally approved by the DD (a gp capt). For a fast runner it had to get the one-star tick. I believe that mutatis mutandis this system (2 ranks up for normal, 3 ranks up for "FR") continued up the system, so a fast running wg cdr would have his posting approved by Air Sec and an FR gp capt by AMP.
And another thing O-D, on your mention of reservists various! There are some RAFR (CC) remaining -
- but the branch is no longer recruited to, so will in due course wither on the vine.........and finally ...
dctyke
The desk officer will not be interested at all, after all.............. he will be a mong
TTH,
Shock, Horror, Probe!!! No more RAFR (CC)
That could mean that the last one gets stuffed and mounted in a glass case at the RAF Museum ......
I wonder who that will be?
Old Duffer
Shock, Horror, Probe!!! No more RAFR (CC)
That could mean that the last one gets stuffed and mounted in a glass case at the RAF Museum ......I wonder who that will be?
Old Duffer
Gentleman Aviator
I wonder who that will be?
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H-B:
Please accept my apology if I offended you, that was certainly not the intention. I can confirm that if nothing else that my entry was meant to be self-deprecating as I completed my service without ever holding the Queens Commission (I left as a Cpl because of dead mans shoes promotion in my trade), although this was indeed the career path I originally intended to follow. As I have said before on deep reflection, there is very little if anything at all that I would change about my time in the RAF, apart from making better use of the educational facilities earlier, but in all honesty, I got out what I put in. And for that, I have absolutely no complaint whatsoever because it has stood me in good stead compared to my non ex-military peers.
Such is the dark humour of the Other Ranks sometimes (particularly of my Cold War generation), but again, I assure you, no slur or offence was intended.
I can assure you my tongue was so far into my cynical cheek that it has indeed finally given me a mouth ulcer. Maybe there is such a thing as Karma after all.
And as I've said on another post, what with 7000 civilianised posts going, maybe a lot of these things are starting to come back full circle. The next few years to 2020 are going to be.... interesting.
Please accept my apology if I offended you, that was certainly not the intention. I can confirm that if nothing else that my entry was meant to be self-deprecating as I completed my service without ever holding the Queens Commission (I left as a Cpl because of dead mans shoes promotion in my trade), although this was indeed the career path I originally intended to follow. As I have said before on deep reflection, there is very little if anything at all that I would change about my time in the RAF, apart from making better use of the educational facilities earlier, but in all honesty, I got out what I put in. And for that, I have absolutely no complaint whatsoever because it has stood me in good stead compared to my non ex-military peers.
Such is the dark humour of the Other Ranks sometimes (particularly of my Cold War generation), but again, I assure you, no slur or offence was intended.
I can assure you my tongue was so far into my cynical cheek that it has indeed finally given me a mouth ulcer. Maybe there is such a thing as Karma after all.
And as I've said on another post, what with 7000 civilianised posts going, maybe a lot of these things are starting to come back full circle. The next few years to 2020 are going to be.... interesting.
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Essentially, getting on the promotion ladder for an RAF pilot (I guess ES from here onward) is like investing in a pyramid scheme. Statistically you may realise a profit over the long run, but unless you're very smart/lucky, the odds suggest you are most likely to take a financial bath compared to what you might have earned in that second career you could have had with the airlines.
I'd be interested to see the comparative remuneration (including pension) between leaving at 38 and going to a major airline versus staying in and seeing how far up the greasy pole you could climb. At a rough guess you must need to get to Gp Capt as a minimum to realise the same sort of money?
Anyone done this calculation?
I'd be interested to see the comparative remuneration (including pension) between leaving at 38 and going to a major airline versus staying in and seeing how far up the greasy pole you could climb. At a rough guess you must need to get to Gp Capt as a minimum to realise the same sort of money?
Anyone done this calculation?
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Wow, such vitriol. Man up guys. In any professional environment you will have those who are career driven, ambitious and talented and who seek promotion/elevation. They are supported by the majority of others who work within the organisation who are not looking for similar roles. If you are good and ambitious go for it; if you are neither find a niche in which you are happy. Every large commercial organisation I know operates a scheme for talent identification (even bad schools separate the able from the less able) and most use lateral entry and specialist recruitment. If you want to career press - get yourself to Swindon polytechnic for the 11+ for ES otherwise work hard and enjoy the PS for as long as you can stand. The New Employment Model work may, if not treated the same way as the Bett Report (remember that?), offer a dramatic change to terms and conditions of service along with new career structures and management processes. Just remember one thing folks - little changes for the better!
Thread Starter
A Gp Capt with three kids on CEA, overseas posting, mortgage, car loan etc...likely to be near backrupt!
Back to the topic - do posters beleive that this new system overs any clear advantages to anyone?
Back to the topic - do posters beleive that this new system overs any clear advantages to anyone?
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Well all you Crandistan escapees are to be known as chisellers or mongs -
Us oiks have similar names or worse for you....
Sadly I met far too many chisellers and not enough mongs.
If you want to be a mong - be a mong and have fun - being a chiseller is just not worth the extra garbage...
Us oiks have similar names or worse for you....
Sadly I met far too many chisellers and not enough mongs.
If you want to be a mong - be a mong and have fun - being a chiseller is just not worth the extra garbage...