PVRs started.....
Join Date: Jun 2007
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But here's the rub, because i am grown up I know that despite being a biggish cog in my trade wheel it matters not a single jot if I leave now or next year as a day later nothing will have changed and someone else be coping comfortably doing what I had previously been tasked with
We have entered the final phase now, where cuts are so bad, rather than inter-service fighting, we now have the single service trades themselves ripping into each other.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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AA,
I get it, I really do, it's just I don't buy into the rupture thing. I have heard more "**** it I'm off" talk over the years to realise it's almost always hot air and most of those who say it simply "talk a good PVR
I get it, I really do, it's just I don't buy into the rupture thing. I have heard more "**** it I'm off" talk over the years to realise it's almost always hot air and most of those who say it simply "talk a good PVR
Thread Starter
Whilst we are all seeing the PVRs, a lot of discontent and people 'talking' about PVR'ing my main other worry is the attitude of the guys coming through the system.
One of the effects of the redundancies of the 180 out of the training system is that a lot of the guys left have seen there isn't any loyalty and are just numbers. What I have seen of new guys coming through, is that they realise that it could happen again in the future and aren't willing to give it their all, like 'RISE' and other bull**** publications suggest they should.
Whilst us 'older' guys might put up with it for a couple of years to get pensions or plan an exit due to family reasons, the newer guys are willing to leave quicker.
This might be subjective, however, I feel this is backed up by the amount of Co-pilots doing their ATPLs.
Anyway, looking forward to the Manning briefs coming up this week!!
One of the effects of the redundancies of the 180 out of the training system is that a lot of the guys left have seen there isn't any loyalty and are just numbers. What I have seen of new guys coming through, is that they realise that it could happen again in the future and aren't willing to give it their all, like 'RISE' and other bull**** publications suggest they should.
Whilst us 'older' guys might put up with it for a couple of years to get pensions or plan an exit due to family reasons, the newer guys are willing to leave quicker.
This might be subjective, however, I feel this is backed up by the amount of Co-pilots doing their ATPLs.
Anyway, looking forward to the Manning briefs coming up this week!!
Join Date: Aug 2009
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"Try living in a 12`x 8` box room, 300 miles from home for a tour with sh**e food and too many knobbers in your decision making process and see how quickly you join the PVR club."
For 8 years of my career, I lived in a room half that size, for 7 of those years 500 miles away from home, definately with sh*te food for virtually my whole career, with a management chain stuffed to the gills with complete throbbers (less than a dozen exceptions in total) and it still took me 16 years to upgrade my PVR Club membership to "Full".
Guess we all have different "F**k it" thresholds
For 8 years of my career, I lived in a room half that size, for 7 of those years 500 miles away from home, definately with sh*te food for virtually my whole career, with a management chain stuffed to the gills with complete throbbers (less than a dozen exceptions in total) and it still took me 16 years to upgrade my PVR Club membership to "Full".
Guess we all have different "F**k it" thresholds
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Sorry Beags, couldnt resist it 
Despite all those things, I'd still not swap those 16 years for anything else and have not a single regret about joining when I did or leaving when I did.
Snagged sums it up perfectly for me to be honest; its all relative and we're all different. You know in yourself when its time to really move on and turn the letting-off-steam-PVR into a real one.
The difference being this time though (IMHO, natch) is that there is less and less to stay in for, compared to the days of old. Thats where I do have quite a lot of sympathy for those who'se careers find themselves either in freefall or dead mans shoes, particularly if its all they've ever known since leaving our wonderful education system (insert tongue in cheek smiley here)... The diminishing returns point was a fairly easy one for me to spot; I cant help but get the feeling that for those serving at the moment that its something that is constantly hovering in front of their faces like an annoying insect.
Sad state of affairs.
Despite all those things, I'd still not swap those 16 years for anything else and have not a single regret about joining when I did or leaving when I did.
Snagged sums it up perfectly for me to be honest; its all relative and we're all different. You know in yourself when its time to really move on and turn the letting-off-steam-PVR into a real one.
The difference being this time though (IMHO, natch) is that there is less and less to stay in for, compared to the days of old. Thats where I do have quite a lot of sympathy for those who'se careers find themselves either in freefall or dead mans shoes, particularly if its all they've ever known since leaving our wonderful education system (insert tongue in cheek smiley here)... The diminishing returns point was a fairly easy one for me to spot; I cant help but get the feeling that for those serving at the moment that its something that is constantly hovering in front of their faces like an annoying insect.
Sad state of affairs.
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Despite losing 170+ studes from the pipeline, there are still astronomical holds facing those that remain. Age vs promotion is severely limiting promotion and career prospects, even once we retire (lack of flying hours). Being part of the cadre of graduates who have had a longer than expected journey through flying training thus far, and still years away from completion, means I for one will be pushing 30 before I hit the front line... (if ever). I know of people who will be 32 when they get to front line and they joined at 21 straight from university...
4 years of "flying" training, and still 3 to go... crazy.
So I hear you all saying about first tourists being enthusiastic, young, boozey and keen - people whos careers are looked after, have rose tinted vision and no commitments - therefore unlikely to PVR... I throw back to you a generation of first tourists who are in their early 30's
This wont work. (And I will say I told you so, come the day)
4 years of "flying" training, and still 3 to go... crazy.
So I hear you all saying about first tourists being enthusiastic, young, boozey and keen - people whos careers are looked after, have rose tinted vision and no commitments - therefore unlikely to PVR... I throw back to you a generation of first tourists who are in their early 30's
This wont work. (And I will say I told you so, come the day)
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Ranger,
No offence intended or sought but the very fact that you and many others like you are still around hoping to make it to the frontline suggests that it probably will work and "the day" you suggest is highly unlikely to come.
Just my humble thoughts
No offence intended or sought but the very fact that you and many others like you are still around hoping to make it to the frontline suggests that it probably will work and "the day" you suggest is highly unlikely to come.
Just my humble thoughts
R5.
As a KOS, who left the RAF 15-ish years ago after 27+ years service, I struggle to comprehend how it now, apparently, takes 7-8 years to get someone through the training machine to becoming "Op" on a squadron. Why? Where are the hold ups?
As a KOS, who left the RAF 15-ish years ago after 27+ years service, I struggle to comprehend how it now, apparently, takes 7-8 years to get someone through the training machine to becoming "Op" on a squadron. Why? Where are the hold ups?
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Come on folks,
The idea of hitting 30 before the front line is hardly new; in the late 90's we had a whole cadre of guys farmed out to holding jobs or to complete university Masters' Degrees that went through exactly that. Sadly, it seems that how the cycle runs.
I'm not saying it's right, but it's definitely not unprecedented...and it wasn't all that bad then...they just made do!
Are we just becoming enveloped in a world of ever-increasing negativity? I guess only time will truly tell.
The idea of hitting 30 before the front line is hardly new; in the late 90's we had a whole cadre of guys farmed out to holding jobs or to complete university Masters' Degrees that went through exactly that. Sadly, it seems that how the cycle runs.
I'm not saying it's right, but it's definitely not unprecedented...and it wasn't all that bad then...they just made do!
Are we just becoming enveloped in a world of ever-increasing negativity? I guess only time will truly tell.
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Inefficient methods of working, resulting in disenchantment, demoralisation, demotivation, disaffection, and alienation. Dysfunctional and inefficient organisations. Staff turnover and sickness absence are high whilst productivity and profitability are low. Prosperity is illusory and such organisations are a bad long term investment.
NB The words are preceded by "The purpose of a bully is to hide inadequacy".
Thread Starter
1.3Vs.....
3 years ago, the powers that be, decided to increase the number of courses going through EFT and then added extra students to those courses as well. Instead of the 6-8 students on a course, we were working with 16 at a time.
The question was asked 'where exactly are we pushing all these guys to'? Given that the VC-10 was on its way out, along with the tristar, Awacs, cuts to Eurofighter and various helicopter Sqns ( this was before the recent reviews!!)
There simply aren't enough front line slots to send them to. The VC10 and TriStar OCUs are shut, along with the Herc K. The Herc J is full up for many months, the C-17 is the same and I presume other fleets are similar....
Its been a classic case of Tap on, force people through and sit back and watch them hold!!!
Of course, I might be wrong with my cynical views.....
3 years ago, the powers that be, decided to increase the number of courses going through EFT and then added extra students to those courses as well. Instead of the 6-8 students on a course, we were working with 16 at a time.
The question was asked 'where exactly are we pushing all these guys to'? Given that the VC-10 was on its way out, along with the tristar, Awacs, cuts to Eurofighter and various helicopter Sqns ( this was before the recent reviews!!)
There simply aren't enough front line slots to send them to. The VC10 and TriStar OCUs are shut, along with the Herc K. The Herc J is full up for many months, the C-17 is the same and I presume other fleets are similar....
Its been a classic case of Tap on, force people through and sit back and watch them hold!!!
Of course, I might be wrong with my cynical views.....
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3BB
Absolutely correct. The holds between types through all three streams at all stages is averaging over a year also. With some over 2 years.
There are currently enough students to fill all rotary OCU slots for the next 3 and a half years, on hold between the squirrel and the griffin... I know the figures, oh what fun my holding job is...
Crazy.
R5
Absolutely correct. The holds between types through all three streams at all stages is averaging over a year also. With some over 2 years.
There are currently enough students to fill all rotary OCU slots for the next 3 and a half years, on hold between the squirrel and the griffin... I know the figures, oh what fun my holding job is...
Crazy.
R5