Brize move a farce..
Nimby
This reminds me of a certain Sqn Ldr who moved close to Kemble only a couple of years ago, complained about the noise (what noise!), lobbied his local council who spent thousands of pounds of our money trying to shut the airfield down which had only been there since the middle of the last century.
There is a great article in the latest issue of Pilot entitled 'Be careful what you wish for, Nimbys'. In short, if they closed Brize it would become something worse, possible an open prison?
There is a great article in the latest issue of Pilot entitled 'Be careful what you wish for, Nimbys'. In short, if they closed Brize it would become something worse, possible an open prison?
Red On, Green On
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Can't put the blame for that one on the closure of Lyenham and the Hercs moving over.
It may have simply been fixed at that hour, and needed for an early start in a few hours. Sometimes when it needs to go, it needs to happen now.
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Are the same people complaining about the 'torturous' noise also the ones who are likely to be revelling in a predicted 25 % increase in rental prices and almost a 10 % rise in house prices? 
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An interesting thread - of course the move isnt a farce. As with all things military the skills and abilities of our people on the ground will make the integration of Lyneham & Brize work. Yes, there are the inevitable teething problems involving the squadrons meshing together. Yes, there will be problems with the local community and the station when different flight patterns become apparant, and of course any engine runs after midnight are a pain in the ass - why shouldnt nearby residents complain?
As for me, well I live within the circuit at Brize AND I work shifts there. But, I also know that eventually Brize will settle down as the new RAF 'Superbase' - already action has been taken regarding low flying by the C130's at night - no more 500' circuits Southside unless operationally essential, and there already seems to be a new set-up for Herc engine runs (on taxiway Golf by the almost completed repatriation centre rather than on the old 101sqn bays). Lets be fair gents, how many of you would put up with Hercs at full chat for up to 2hrs at a time after midnight??
Whether we like it or not, we now live in a world where those who pay our (military)salaries and purchase our (military)aircraft have a say too.
Exactly as you do
As for me, well I live within the circuit at Brize AND I work shifts there. But, I also know that eventually Brize will settle down as the new RAF 'Superbase' - already action has been taken regarding low flying by the C130's at night - no more 500' circuits Southside unless operationally essential, and there already seems to be a new set-up for Herc engine runs (on taxiway Golf by the almost completed repatriation centre rather than on the old 101sqn bays). Lets be fair gents, how many of you would put up with Hercs at full chat for up to 2hrs at a time after midnight??
Whether we like it or not, we now live in a world where those who pay our (military)salaries and purchase our (military)aircraft have a say too.
Exactly as you do
Champagne anyone...?
Lets be fair gents, how many of you would put up with Hercs at full chat for up to 2hrs at a time after midnight??
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It's quite simple, one of the two bases had to go
We have lost a fine airfield with a supportive local population where you could fly 500ft circuits without them complaining (well, not much anyway). Brize aircraft would come to Lyneham to fly circuits at weekends because they couldn't at home.
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We certainly had a fair number of stretch DC8s though the early 90's with full loads of tank armour (every other day as I recall), they managed to get away (unless there is an undiscovered pile of Chobam/Aluminium mix just off the end of the runway! 
)
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Well, during GW2 the C17s would land at Lyneham to load up before heading off to the Gulf so they weren't taking off empty. Charter DC8s & A300s seemed to have no problem operating to the ME out of Lyneham.
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As I understand it the taxiways and parking was also a probem?
Last edited by Ken Scott; 5th Aug 2011 at 08:40.
RA - it may not be covered by ECHR, as noise is adequately covered under environment law. Environmental legislation does not necessarily recognise - and accept - long-standing infringments. The RAF has no more right to make noise than any other organisation, although aircraft noise is a necessary byproduct of a lawful enterprise.
I quote from a report into military aircraft noise:
I quote from a report into military aircraft noise:
'Noise has long been established in common law as a form of nuisance, to wit, a material interference with a person's enjoyment of property rights...Under Environmental Protection Act (Part III) 1990 individuals may bring action in a civil court for nuisance in which they seek a court order (injunction) restraining the defendant form continuing some wrongful act or omission, and seek damages in compensation. Although Crown Exemption was granted for noises of a military or operational nature, it is likely that over the next decade European legislative pressure may result in the loss of immunity and [it is expected that] passive noise mitigation measures must be introduced to achieve the extant standards and to ensure a continued 'Good Neighbour' policy.'
Running engines in the middle of the night is completely unnecessary - Afghan War or no Afghan War.
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Brian, some good points there and almost all valid. Apart from the last one. If one can count the number of potential assets (aircraft in this case) on the fingers of two people then the engineering required to maintain 'output' is critical. We don't have the luxury of carrying u/s aircraft anymore. I'm not necessarily pro noise but I do live in the real world. Close to Brize as it happens.
Some of the cold war warriors need to realise the RAF is not the beast it used to be.
Some of the cold war warriors need to realise the RAF is not the beast it used to be.
Champagne anyone...?
Sorry Brian but little Johnnie copping it because everyone was being bothered by the nasty planes and couldn't sleep is reaching in extremis. What if they stayed up watching TV all night? Or perhaps the baby was crying all night? Or there was a loud thunderstorm? There are plenty of things that will disturb a night's sleep and suggesting that just one of them in isolation will lead to the collapse of the Oxfordshire NHS is, I'm afraid, a little poor
PS. the VC10 nav couldn't sleep because of the noise or because he kept falling off the bouncy castle?
PS. the VC10 nav couldn't sleep because of the noise or because he kept falling off the bouncy castle?
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Running engines in the middle of the night is completely unnecessary - Afghan War or no Afghan War.
I stress the earlier legal point - the RAF have no right to create noise that constitutes a nuisance - irrespective of how long they have done it at any location - the principle of 'Ancient Lights' doesn't apply (ie enjoyment of/exercise of an activity acquired through lapse of time); at present Crown Immunity stops further sanctions being taken, however it is behoven on the operating authority to take all practical measures to mitigate noise form aircraft operations.
In other words, just because Brize Norton has been there since 1918 (or whenever) gives it no more right to produce noise than a new manufactory with noise producing processes which may consitute a nuisance. At present, noise from military activity enjoys excemption, but this is a fairly weak defence this day and age.
And before I am accused of not 'supporting our boys on the Malabar Front', I am simply pointing out that producing noise that is a nuisance is illegal. And yes, I do think it naive of people who buy properties around an established noise producer - bet it an airfield, an range, cow shed or church bells - and then complain about it. The lovely church bells from our parish church clock near our UK home have been silenced between 2200 - 0800 because of lcocal complaints; where I am currently residing we are woken up with noise from our nearby place of worhsip at 0600 - and repeated throughout the day till about 11 pm - or later. I wouldn't dare complain - the locals would be at the door with flaming torches and all manner of sharp objects post haste.
In other words, just because Brize Norton has been there since 1918 (or whenever) gives it no more right to produce noise than a new manufactory with noise producing processes which may consitute a nuisance. At present, noise from military activity enjoys excemption, but this is a fairly weak defence this day and age.
And before I am accused of not 'supporting our boys on the Malabar Front', I am simply pointing out that producing noise that is a nuisance is illegal. And yes, I do think it naive of people who buy properties around an established noise producer - bet it an airfield, an range, cow shed or church bells - and then complain about it. The lovely church bells from our parish church clock near our UK home have been silenced between 2200 - 0800 because of lcocal complaints; where I am currently residing we are woken up with noise from our nearby place of worhsip at 0600 - and repeated throughout the day till about 11 pm - or later. I wouldn't dare complain - the locals would be at the door with flaming torches and all manner of sharp objects post haste.