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ATPL exams now or post Apr 12?

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ATPL exams now or post Apr 12?

Old 4th Oct 2011, 13:30
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Behind the wire.
Posts: 306
Perhaps we should have asked Alex at BG to staff the whole thing..... One thing is for certain the communication would have been better and people won't be asking all these questions.
High_Expect is offline  
Old 4th Oct 2011, 15:47
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
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Perhaps someone should write a DIN that aircrew might actually read.
VinRouge is offline  
Old 4th Oct 2011, 20:40
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
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Something along the lines of what is happening in respect to military licensing, when can we expect a new scheme to be in effect and what are the expected qualification criteria compared to the old one? Not to sound unappreciative of all the work going on at the moment to try and sort the issues generated by EASA licensing, but a little communication would go a long way for a lot of people!
VinRouge is offline  
Old 4th Oct 2011, 20:48
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Behind the wire.
Posts: 306
What's a DIN? Maybe they'll issue another one of the A4 briefs that was well like down with the kids in yoof speak init.
High_Expect is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2011, 18:18
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 95
At the risk of dragging up more questions than answers in this thread, I'd be grateful for some advice on how to proceed with my current situation.

I've completed 1520 hrs P1 of which 890 are P1 Captain (mix of RW and ME) as of now. I was given dispensation by the CAA back in the Spring to start the Bridging Package which I've now completed by passing the Bridging Exam and the 4x CAA exams. I've also completed my Class 1 medical.

However I've now been placed in a ground tour and although taking my IR on my old ME ac type would work, I am not likely to achieve the 110 hrs P1 Captain on the AEF before April 2012 to bring me up to the required 1000 hrs P1.

What, if any options are open to me at this point? Have I effectively wasted my time and energy thus far?

skaterboi is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2011, 19:47
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: in the mess
Posts: 195
Not really, but it depends what you're aiming at. If it's an ATPL(A) to get into the RHS of an airliner, then speak to Brian at Exeter and sort out your IR on a twin, add that and a MCCC (which you probably already have given your background) and you're done. Costs wise, it was 15 hrs flying for me, a rotary mate with a procedural rating. Not sure about the 1000 hrs P1 bit though, so sorry I couldn't help you out more. Can you hours build in Florida for a bit? 2 weeks, 70 hours, a few grand?
nice castle is offline  
Old 9th Nov 2011, 17:29
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 103
How come the EASA change-over date for licences has been slipped to July, yet the mil bridging hasn't? Is it a double standards thing? I could do with those extra few months having spent 3 months away this summer which has scuppered my ATPL training timeline.

Even for those doing all of the exams, once the mil exemptions go, the ease and cost of getting an ME IR is likely to change. I spoke to the CAA today and they advised me that post 8th April, your mil flying won't allow your chosen training provider to cut hours out of the full ME IR course. I think that means a course goes from about 15hrs to about 40hrs. Which is less than ideal and bonkers that our experience flying in cloud won't count because the tail number of our jet wasn't on the civilian register.

To be fair, the nice lady at the CAA didn't know what was likely to happen either as 22 Gp haven't done much and EASA keep changing the rules. I do have the email of the policy department though if anyone wishes to get in touch with them too. They are the peeps who decide on extensions etc and may be able to lobby EASA for a bit of flex given the goat created by 22 Gp.

Come on 22 Gp, tell us what is going on. With the pension fiasco, we need this carrot if we are going to keep attracting high quality people to fly in the RAF.
gashman is offline  
Old 9th Nov 2011, 21:18
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 117
Any information on how the mil bridging package will be replaced, if at all, would be welcome. Somebody out there must have an idea?

I reckon I just have enough time to get it cracked if I start now, but domestics make it a less than ideal option.

drugsdontwork is offline  
Old 9th Nov 2011, 22:13
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ENGLAND
Posts: 80

When I walked into the Careers Office I knew nothing of the military accreditation scheme. I don't see it being any different now to those wishing to fly HM jets so I don't see it as a recruiting tool for quality people. I would see it as best practise for a Service wishing to do the best for it's people as they leave.

For the EASA Jul slip explanation read Beagle's response #19 here;

Are the CAA responsible for implementing or formulating national policy? Discuss

Did 22 Gp create this goat? Rather depends on what direction they were given by the chain of command. With wars being fought and manpower being reduced I don't think it would have been on CAS priority list, do you?

22 Gp are as manpower hit as the rest of the mil. Whatever priority you and I may believe this issue has it is not on the radar of the big chiefs. There is not a huge team beavering away on this, read 1x Sqn Ldr and 1x Flt Lt both posted in late to this stuation.

In civvie speak somebody should have taken ownership of this situation 2 years ago, allocated adequate resources to resolving the issue by working hand in hand with the CAA as the euro goat developed and communicated down the chain to those impinged, thus allowing individuals to plan their lives accordingly. I believe it is called Transformational Leadership and should be practised not preached.

As unfair as this situation is, I believe it equally unfair to blame the 2 fellas shoved into this dogs dinner at the last minute.

Last edited by jpboy; 10th Nov 2011 at 05:38.
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Old 9th Nov 2011, 23:33
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 70
Got to agree totally
As unfair as this situation is, I believe it equally unfair to blame the 2 fellas shoved into this dogs dinner at the last minute.

The Flt Lt is open, honest and very proactive despite his huge task at hand. He also speaks to the CAA policy dept direct on licensing issues.
Even though he is from the FW side he is doing all he can to secure ME & RW terms.

As it stands, at the end of the LASORS, Section D, Pg 69, RW QSP flow chart you will/can get stuck one thing short of the ATPL(H). You must be JAR flying current (easy for current a/crew), and you need a Multi-Pilot(MP) Type Rating and IR; Almost impossible if you are post leaving MOD or flying a Single-Pilot certified cab. In the UK the AOC MP TR operators are ie. Harrods (S92) or a Nth Sea operator (EC225) or try to find/work for an AOC holder with an exemption letter from the CAA to operate a single pilot IFR a/c in the MP role ie. Starspeed/JCB. What's the chance of getting all that done by 7 Apr 2012?

Who will take ownership of this challis and see it through to a successful conclusion? AOC 22 Gp, DFT, CAA or the poor Flt Lt at Abbey Wood in the CAA liaison role!
wazz'n'zoom is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2011, 07:44
  #31 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 0
are they looking for any assistance from elsewhere? if people could assist as a station secpndary duty surely all of the paperwork could be monstered in a shorter period.

Recent Flight International article on training directly quoted that fewer ex military into the airlines is seen as a bad thing as levels of resiience and handling skills for those trained through the training schools is so much worse....
VinRouge is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2011, 08:53
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 117
Where would one find the team looking into mil bridging for a quick update of progress to date?
drugsdontwork is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2011, 19:51
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 70
Abbey Wood. 'SO2 and SO3 CAA liaison' is their title. Use the intranet on-line search/ EADS directory.
wazz'n'zoom is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2011, 21:37
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Dundee
Posts: 4
Info Release

Newsletter released from 22 Gp today! Did a bit of digging. The Flt Lt is working flat out on this - massive task but progress is being made. 22 Gp have many other tasks and priorities currently: 3 Reds accidents in 18 months with 2 tragic fatalities, Defence Review aftermath, MFTS, implosion of the flying training system etc etc.
Knockando1997 is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2011, 13:43
  #35 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 0
As I asked earlier, is there any potential to "share" the workload to chaps on the frontline? Plenty of first tourists knocking about wanting a decent secondary duty to widen the CV! (and not to mention, get their licenses in the bag).
VinRouge is offline  

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