LIBYA (Merged) Use this thread ONLY
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lancashire
Age: 48
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The US really does want to "sit this one out" as much as possible.
Democracy barely works in this country, I seriously doubt many nations over that way have the gumption to make it work. It's funny watching all the allah akbahrs running about in their slip ons, leather jackets and jeans whilst blatting off their AKs, unless that's the new 'cool' CIA dress code.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 59
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Can't blame them, it was clearly evident before the 'NFZ' that any action had not been thought through at all."
I agree, can't blame them. The whole lot should have "thought it through"
a bit more beforehand and now they are in, go all in with air, after all, they have the ability.
The LA Times has a good article on the rebels.
"For many rebel fighters, the absence of competent military leadership and a tendency to flee at the first shot have contributed to sagging morale. Despite perfunctory V-for-victory signs and cries of "Allahu akbar!" (God is great), the eager volunteers acknowledge that they are in for a long, uphill fight."
I agree, can't blame them. The whole lot should have "thought it through"
a bit more beforehand and now they are in, go all in with air, after all, they have the ability.
The LA Times has a good article on the rebels.
"For many rebel fighters, the absence of competent military leadership and a tendency to flee at the first shot have contributed to sagging morale. Despite perfunctory V-for-victory signs and cries of "Allahu akbar!" (God is great), the eager volunteers acknowledge that they are in for a long, uphill fight."
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lancashire
Age: 48
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unless the Col. is assassinated, it's got stalemate written all over it, but it always did have.
I reckon the UK will soon follow the spams and leave the french with the problem. No doubt it will be sold to the 'great' British public as a resounding success, and the sun reading majority will lap it up.
I reckon the UK will soon follow the spams and leave the french with the problem. No doubt it will be sold to the 'great' British public as a resounding success, and the sun reading majority will lap it up.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Even partition would have people on the wrong side of the line and require huge population shifts - a la Cyprus or elsewhere in the east Med.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Andu, quite right. As I said before, everywhere we have intervened has seen a surge in immigrants from that country when few have come before.
How many Britains born in Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan? How many will come from Libya?
How many Britains born in Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan? How many will come from Libya?
Who was it that first decided to stick their nose into this thing to begin with? It could not have been Barry Boy....as he is not a leader of anything!
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NATO jets killed a number of friendlies after mistaking celebratory fire from a pickup-mounted anti-aircraft gun for hostile fire.
Standby for days of recrimination in the Western media and a bevy of lawyers arriving in Libya to oversee the multi million dollar compensation claims (followed, of course, by asylum for the injured and their extended families and the extended families of the dead).
Myself, I'd blame the CNN TV crew that must have passed the pickup truck just before the NATO attack. As everyone knows, it's mandatory for every Arab male to fire his anti-aircraft gun into the air and make the V sign whenever there's a TV crew within 500 metres.
Standby for days of recrimination in the Western media and a bevy of lawyers arriving in Libya to oversee the multi million dollar compensation claims (followed, of course, by asylum for the injured and their extended families and the extended families of the dead).
Myself, I'd blame the CNN TV crew that must have passed the pickup truck just before the NATO attack. As everyone knows, it's mandatory for every Arab male to fire his anti-aircraft gun into the air and make the V sign whenever there's a TV crew within 500 metres.
More idiots in the Journo corps ... from this article
US extends airstrike role in Libya - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com
What in the hell is this idiot talking about? That was a sentence of filler that demonstrated the journo's, and his editor's, utter ignorance.
The plane's aren't precise, the weapons' guidance systems are.
FWIW, the most "precise" airborne weapon on a jet is a GPS guided bomb. CEP is incredibly small Next most precise airborne weapon, IMO, is an IR guided missile or bomb, lased either from ground or air lasing capacity.
As to AC-130 ... no comment. Good platform, I do not believe it ought to be discussed in public.
US extends airstrike role in Libya - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com
The U.S. is shifting the combat role to Britain, France and other NATO allies, but American air power is still in demand. Air Force AC-130 gunships and A-10 Thunderbolts and Marine Corps AV-8B Harriers will continue to attack Gadhafi's troops and other sites through Monday evening. These aircraft are among the most precise in the American arsenal.
The plane's aren't precise, the weapons' guidance systems are.
FWIW, the most "precise" airborne weapon on a jet is a GPS guided bomb. CEP is incredibly small Next most precise airborne weapon, IMO, is an IR guided missile or bomb, lased either from ground or air lasing capacity.
As to AC-130 ... no comment. Good platform, I do not believe it ought to be discussed in public.
make the V sign whenever there's a TV crew within 500 metres
I read their "V" sign as their belief that they are about to meet their 72 virgins ... 
So, four more GR4's to be deployed, no apparent exit strategy, no end-game yet in sight.
How soon before SDSR Revision 1?
Air Chief Marshal Sir Stephen Dalton said: “It’s a heck of a lot to be doing at one time.” He suggested the RAF may be in action for six months, while Mr Cameron said: “It is not easy to know how the end game will work.”
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The ability of airpower
More than anything, this should prove the ability of airpower to respond to a situation - please take note Gen Richards.
However, this does show how foreign policy is full of mission creep. Today we are going to give the rebels communications kit, presumably so they can call for Close Air Support and the Italians are going to arm them. However, what happens if they call our airpower to attack when innocent civilians are going to get hurt as they attack the legitimate government of Libya?
It just seems that we are using airpower to shape the battlespace and are doing more than attacking units engaged in attacking the innocent. Why did we attack the ammunition depot? Don't get me wrong, I am not some conscientious objector, but I just want to go into combat operations knowing what the end state is.
The clear message is that our airpower allows the selective strikes against a mobile enemy and it combines the FIND-FIX-STRIKE cycle that the Land Forces like to claim they can do. If the UK wants to remain a world player, then this underlines the need to invest in our air capability.
Listen in Mr Cameron, Dr Fox and Gen Richards.
However, this does show how foreign policy is full of mission creep. Today we are going to give the rebels communications kit, presumably so they can call for Close Air Support and the Italians are going to arm them. However, what happens if they call our airpower to attack when innocent civilians are going to get hurt as they attack the legitimate government of Libya?
It just seems that we are using airpower to shape the battlespace and are doing more than attacking units engaged in attacking the innocent. Why did we attack the ammunition depot? Don't get me wrong, I am not some conscientious objector, but I just want to go into combat operations knowing what the end state is.
The clear message is that our airpower allows the selective strikes against a mobile enemy and it combines the FIND-FIX-STRIKE cycle that the Land Forces like to claim they can do. If the UK wants to remain a world player, then this underlines the need to invest in our air capability.
Listen in Mr Cameron, Dr Fox and Gen Richards.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North Yorkshire
Age: 82
Posts: 641
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The ability of airpower.
More than anything I suggest this proves that airpower alone cannot in fact be decisive. In the end boots on the ground are always the decisive factor. The size of the boots and whose feet are in them is another matter.
More than anything I suggest this proves that airpower alone cannot in fact be decisive. In the end boots on the ground are always the decisive factor. The size of the boots and whose feet are in them is another matter.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 59
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Clockwork Mouse
Boots on the ground allow you to consolidate and hold gains
made by air power.
Interesting that NATO asking for even more planes now the US has dropped down a level. Some interesting comments in the paper from the Pollies.
Boots on the ground allow you to consolidate and hold gains
made by air power.
Interesting that NATO asking for even more planes now the US has dropped down a level. Some interesting comments in the paper from the Pollies.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Detroit MI
Age: 66
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boots on the ground allow you to consolidate and hold gains
made by air power.
made by air power.
Air power allows the "boots on the ground" the freedom of mobility, superior firepower and the ability to react quickly to a changing battlefield to supress and overcome the enemy. It does not win battles, hold positions or take ground.
I believe you have succumbed to the notion that the "sky gods" win wars. They don't... They allow the "ground grunts" to do it more easily - nothing more.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 59
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AA
BTW, I am NOT air.
I think my comment was misunderstood. I agree with you but also diagree in some instances.
Air takes out the enemy, allowing the grunts to move forward, "consolidate and hold gains". Is removing the enemy, tanks, arty not a gain ?
Air Power "supress and overcome the enemy." - then the boots move in.
Same as an Arty barrage on the objective prior to crossing the start line.
"It does not win battles"
I think a few in Afghanistan would say that Apache's have won a few battles for the boots on the ground ? Would you agree ?
At the end of the day, you still need boots on the ground to win overall.
BTW, I am NOT air.
I think my comment was misunderstood. I agree with you but also diagree in some instances.
Air takes out the enemy, allowing the grunts to move forward, "consolidate and hold gains". Is removing the enemy, tanks, arty not a gain ?
Air Power "supress and overcome the enemy." - then the boots move in.
Same as an Arty barrage on the objective prior to crossing the start line.
"It does not win battles"
I think a few in Afghanistan would say that Apache's have won a few battles for the boots on the ground ? Would you agree ?
At the end of the day, you still need boots on the ground to win overall.
Last edited by 500N; 6th Apr 2011 at 03:09.