25%+ cut in allowances!
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It's not an overnight cut though WPH. There's a few changes in May 11 and then more in 2012 to bring it to the revised levels.
All valid arguments pointed out by you. The cuts are what they are. 150 GBP could be a lot worse (A 30 to 50 % slashing was the rumour I'd heard pre announcement.....)
As long as my AFPS 75 pension isn't screwed with anymore.....
All valid arguments pointed out by you. The cuts are what they are. 150 GBP could be a lot worse (A 30 to 50 % slashing was the rumour I'd heard pre announcement.....)
As long as my AFPS 75 pension isn't screwed with anymore.....
FFP
I think you will find all LOA changes come into place on 1 May. If you take the USA as an example, the only 2 ranks that do not lose money are Fg Off and SAC - if they have no kids. Reductions on the whole are in the order of 30 - 50% which is a big hit when the whole reason for being given LOA hasn't changed.
I think you will find all LOA changes come into place on 1 May. If you take the USA as an example, the only 2 ranks that do not lose money are Fg Off and SAC - if they have no kids. Reductions on the whole are in the order of 30 - 50% which is a big hit when the whole reason for being given LOA hasn't changed.
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Reductions on the whole are in the order of 30 - 50%
As a Flt Lt, a 150 GBP drop is 15% for me. I guess the crux of my question is where is this 30 to 50 % coming from for LOA reductions ?
Not sure about HTD but (for the USA) from 1 May:
LOSLOA -
AVM from £46.55 to £18.26
Wg Cdr from £43.20 to £18.26
Flt Lt from £37.84 to £17.77
FS from £41.01 to £17.77
Cpl from £38.25 to £17.28
LOA (2 kids examples)
AVM from £51.13 to £24.44
Wg Cdr from £43.07 to £24.44
Flt Lt from £29.27 to £22.98
FS from £39.22 to £22.98
Cpl from £29.83 to £21 54
Leave you to do the maths...
LOSLOA -
AVM from £46.55 to £18.26
Wg Cdr from £43.20 to £18.26
Flt Lt from £37.84 to £17.77
FS from £41.01 to £17.77
Cpl from £38.25 to £17.28
LOA (2 kids examples)
AVM from £51.13 to £24.44
Wg Cdr from £43.07 to £24.44
Flt Lt from £29.27 to £22.98
FS from £39.22 to £22.98
Cpl from £29.83 to £21 54
Leave you to do the maths...
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...to work somewhere where, in most cases, the cost of living will be cheaper than that in Blighty whilst the quality of life will be higher.
Don't take this as me thinking it is right because there are all of the other factors (Mrs not working, loss of value of car etc) but this has been coming for a long time.
It was good whilst it lasted.
G
Don't take this as me thinking it is right because there are all of the other factors (Mrs not working, loss of value of car etc) but this has been coming for a long time.
It was good whilst it lasted.
G
The overall reduction in allowances equates to an average reduction of approx £ 1,500 per person per annum.
A possible complication to such calculations is how much of the reduction to attribute to members of the reserve forces.
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Party Animal,
That's what I was looking for. I've had LOSLOA in the past few months and as a Flt Lt it was never that high, maybe I was on a married rate Vs single rate or something.
Either way, those amounts are rudely obscene as pre cut levels. Even $17 GBP is a lot IMO.
LOA cut will be hard for those to swallow on the higher amounts, but it's probably down to a fairer level. What I would say is that you need to leave people there for 3 years (which I'm sure is the norm) to recoup those costs.
Time to restructure the budget a little.....
That's what I was looking for. I've had LOSLOA in the past few months and as a Flt Lt it was never that high, maybe I was on a married rate Vs single rate or something.
Either way, those amounts are rudely obscene as pre cut levels. Even $17 GBP is a lot IMO.
LOA cut will be hard for those to swallow on the higher amounts, but it's probably down to a fairer level. What I would say is that you need to leave people there for 3 years (which I'm sure is the norm) to recoup those costs.
Time to restructure the budget a little.....
Gentleman Aviator
I think the Telegraph's and others' figures of £1400-1500 are simplistically derived - amount cut divided by total number of bodies.
Target is to save £216M in year 1, which is about £1450 from about 150 000 regulars...... and the final target is £300M...
Normally there are winners and losers - mostly losers this time around methinks ....
Target is to save £216M in year 1, which is about £1450 from about 150 000 regulars...... and the final target is £300M...
Normally there are winners and losers - mostly losers this time around methinks ....
Moving the goal posts - or is it rearranging the deck-chairs on the Titanic?
I've been in my current post for about 5 months; before that I was on another overseas post (Volsep) for 6 months; the gestation for both these postings (linked) goes back almost 2 years. As you may have read earlier, we (me and the family) did the sums (eg loss of second income), considered the options re schooling and then the lifestyle aspects. However, the Service need was also a great factor - 'WP - you'd be the ideal person for that job - we're looking for your breadth and depth of experience in your niche field, would enhance your profile, etc etc...'
Clearly I agreed on the COA but now the financial goal-posts have substantially changed early on in the tour and the substantially reduced LOA in no way meets the additional costs of living in a very, very expensive part of the world; additionally I have subsidised a lot of representational events ouit of my own pocket, as REA is effectively unavailable. In sum, we exercised 'due dilligence' when we were offered the posts and now the rules have changed. In any other environment, one could appeal - or decide to leave forthwith. We are denied that avenue - or should we redress what is clearly a grievance?
Thoughts...
Clearly I agreed on the COA but now the financial goal-posts have substantially changed early on in the tour and the substantially reduced LOA in no way meets the additional costs of living in a very, very expensive part of the world; additionally I have subsidised a lot of representational events ouit of my own pocket, as REA is effectively unavailable. In sum, we exercised 'due dilligence' when we were offered the posts and now the rules have changed. In any other environment, one could appeal - or decide to leave forthwith. We are denied that avenue - or should we redress what is clearly a grievance?
Thoughts...
Last edited by Whenurhappy; 24th Jan 2011 at 12:02.
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When,
Yours is a very interesting case and my suggestion is that if it is financially that painful for you to remain in post then it may be time to have a grown up and sensible chat with your one-up leader - I hate the line manager thing!
Grown up and sensible is important - not a 'now I can't get my tax free car, as many fags and less Warsteiner type boll*aux' whinge about LOA being cut.
Looking at it, you were selected for a post, did your sums and made a decision...but things have changed and your circumstances demand a review.
OODA
The desk offficers of all 3 services obviously read the same script when it comes to posting people
It would be very interesting to hear the systems reply - good luck!
G
Yours is a very interesting case and my suggestion is that if it is financially that painful for you to remain in post then it may be time to have a grown up and sensible chat with your one-up leader - I hate the line manager thing!
Grown up and sensible is important - not a 'now I can't get my tax free car, as many fags and less Warsteiner type boll*aux' whinge about LOA being cut.
Looking at it, you were selected for a post, did your sums and made a decision...but things have changed and your circumstances demand a review.
OODA
The desk offficers of all 3 services obviously read the same script when it comes to posting people
It would be very interesting to hear the systems reply - good luck!
G
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MoD 'breaches Military Covenant' with £250 million allowance cuts - Telegraph
Having just read that, and the Nimrod scrapping debacle, I'm not sure if WhenUR has grounds for redress, but almost certainly grounds for considering with a fair degree of accuracy that we are 'defended' by self serving careerists, politicians and incompetent hypocrites who you wouldn't trust as far as you could throw 'em.
Defence ministers have been accused of the breaching the Military Covenant and double standards after they axed Service allowances that amounted to a £1,400 cut in income for every soldier, sailor and airman.
If the average loss per soldier, sailor and airman, is £1,400 then:
For every individual who loses CEA (for 1 child), an allowance that many on pprune have been quick to attack, with only a small minority defending, then about 9 others on average don't lose anything!
It would appear that for every senior officer and SNCO in the USA having their LOA reduced another 3 or 4 others on average lose nothing.
Indeed, rather than everyone losing £1,400 per year, there are some very big losers, and some (the majority) who lose a small amount of money...
I'm not saying that this is right or wrong, fair or unfair, just trying to point out that the £1,400 figure should be taken with a very large pinch of salt....
For every individual who loses CEA (for 1 child), an allowance that many on pprune have been quick to attack, with only a small minority defending, then about 9 others on average don't lose anything!
It would appear that for every senior officer and SNCO in the USA having their LOA reduced another 3 or 4 others on average lose nothing.
Indeed, rather than everyone losing £1,400 per year, there are some very big losers, and some (the majority) who lose a small amount of money...
I'm not saying that this is right or wrong, fair or unfair, just trying to point out that the £1,400 figure should be taken with a very large pinch of salt....
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What is LOA for?
Anyone want to tell us what LOA is exactly for.
I'm not in the UK at the mo to look it up, but IIRC it is for 17 key points. The cost of feeding your self is not in the 17. I was once told what it was for and it came as a surprise (for Cyprus anyway).
I'm not in the UK at the mo to look it up, but IIRC it is for 17 key points. The cost of feeding your self is not in the 17. I was once told what it was for and it came as a surprise (for Cyprus anyway).
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Gentlemen.
Big round numbers, but total allowances bill £880 million.
CEA (left alone to all intents and purposes) £280 million.
Cuts of 250 from remaining 600 million = a reduction of over 41%.
Easy to see that most of us are even worse off than we thought. In my chain of command, overseas, only the single SACs win on loa...... By 25p a day.
It is not just the senior people, who can maybe afford it, being hit by this. I'm okay, I can cover it. You tell a sgt with a couple of kids who made an informed financial decision to take a job that he is now over £300 net out of pocket per month, or cpl with 3 kids £250 per month, that he must just get on with it. These are big sums to our lesser paid blokes and we are meant to look after them.
But we can't do a thing. These 'allowances' aren't an extravagance, they are a necessity. Call the money what you will, this is another pay cut.
Yours in hopeless emasculation,
Scuttled (appropriate name huh?)
Big round numbers, but total allowances bill £880 million.
CEA (left alone to all intents and purposes) £280 million.
Cuts of 250 from remaining 600 million = a reduction of over 41%.
Easy to see that most of us are even worse off than we thought. In my chain of command, overseas, only the single SACs win on loa...... By 25p a day.
It is not just the senior people, who can maybe afford it, being hit by this. I'm okay, I can cover it. You tell a sgt with a couple of kids who made an informed financial decision to take a job that he is now over £300 net out of pocket per month, or cpl with 3 kids £250 per month, that he must just get on with it. These are big sums to our lesser paid blokes and we are meant to look after them.
But we can't do a thing. These 'allowances' aren't an extravagance, they are a necessity. Call the money what you will, this is another pay cut.
Yours in hopeless emasculation,
Scuttled (appropriate name huh?)
Best everyone overseas puts in a gen app for an early return to the UK then, on the grounds of financial hardship. The military are (or at least were) interested if its people are in financial difficulties, as in theory it makes them more of a security risk...
Such an approach may, coupled with the (likely) unwillingness of anyone else to take up the posts, highlight the issue more than posting on pprune will.
Such an approach may, coupled with the (likely) unwillingness of anyone else to take up the posts, highlight the issue more than posting on pprune will.
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Sadly, raising ones head above the parapet probably just opens you up for the incoming redundancy rounds about to be fired.
It's a bit like those emails saying boycott Esso for 12 months to force a petrol price cut. Nice idea, never happen. The several hundred personnel in the States, for example, all demanding to be sent home - with the press impact, cost of moves etc etc would make a great point and show of force. It'd be hugely embarrassing for HMG too......is it defiance? Mutineering? Okay, a bit ott, but I'm sure anyone doing it would be on a list to walk in the next couple of years.
The Septics I work and socialize with are aghast at the treatment of our people and our handling of the financial situation in the mod in general.
It's a bit like those emails saying boycott Esso for 12 months to force a petrol price cut. Nice idea, never happen. The several hundred personnel in the States, for example, all demanding to be sent home - with the press impact, cost of moves etc etc would make a great point and show of force. It'd be hugely embarrassing for HMG too......is it defiance? Mutineering? Okay, a bit ott, but I'm sure anyone doing it would be on a list to walk in the next couple of years.
The Septics I work and socialize with are aghast at the treatment of our people and our handling of the financial situation in the mod in general.
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PN,
Nail, head, bang.
There's no problem selling this as the number of applicants for the "gucci" jobs abroad will always exceed the number of slots, even if the allowances are cut. Similarly, you could probably bin flying pay for new applicants tomorrow and still have far more volunteers than you could ever need - indeed, look at what happened when FP was no longer paid for training.
Consequently, this will be deemed a successful saving, and is probably a whole lot less damaging than some other ones that could have been considered. Salami slicing it may be, and certainly unpleasant for those on the receiving end, but we got a lot of sausage to save.
S41
Nail, head, bang.
There's no problem selling this as the number of applicants for the "gucci" jobs abroad will always exceed the number of slots, even if the allowances are cut. Similarly, you could probably bin flying pay for new applicants tomorrow and still have far more volunteers than you could ever need - indeed, look at what happened when FP was no longer paid for training.
Consequently, this will be deemed a successful saving, and is probably a whole lot less damaging than some other ones that could have been considered. Salami slicing it may be, and certainly unpleasant for those on the receiving end, but we got a lot of sausage to save.
S41