It's the bi-annual "Not enough parachuting" article
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I'm uncertain why No.1 PTS and the training it provides, or not, to the men who throw themselves from the kite has anything to do with this story. The root cause of the incident was a Nav who couldn't which is hardly a new phenomenon where paras are concerned. 
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Allegedly they were dropped in the wrong place but there are lots of possible factors that might apply.
How high?
Was there a wind sheer?
Was the DZ position correct?
etc etc
How high?
Was there a wind sheer?
Was the DZ position correct?
etc etc
Red On, Green On
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Landing in trees is an occupational hazard for those of us who like a bit of P1 time under the silk.
It's entirely possible that there were errors made, but you'd need to look at the data in more detail - and then factor in the unpredictability of all met.
Frankly if the guys don't like the prospect of landing in trees/water/slurry pits then they should join a craphat regiment.
It's entirely possible that there were errors made, but you'd need to look at the data in more detail - and then factor in the unpredictability of all met.
Frankly if the guys don't like the prospect of landing in trees/water/slurry pits then they should join a craphat regiment.
The root cause of the incident was a Nav who couldn't
) who controls the Red to Green switch - the Co or the Loadie? Or is it controlled automatically by the little black box that does the nav's job for you?Edited to add : I know the DT article states a K was used in this particular instance but curious about about the broader training requirement issues with regards to platform availability etc.
Champagne anyone...?
Thread Starter
The Js do all the "routine" para and most of the not so routine para. Despite the entire world thinking the J is brand new, they've been around for about 11 years now..... 
To answer your questions, no we don't put a Nav on board as the aircraft has a two person flightdeck and is designed to be operated by said two persons. The CARP is computer generated (sometimes with manual assistance) and the system armed by manually putting the red light on. The computer then puts the green light on automatically (for SLR drops).
We get a lot of practice at all the para disciplines which is partly why the DT article rankled so much in the first place. That and the fact it was generally bollocks.
I have no idea what happened with the blokes going into the trees suffice to say accidents happen. Quite what the army plans to replace the C130 with for their mass airdrops I don't know but I wish them the best of luck with their pipe dreams.
To answer your questions, no we don't put a Nav on board as the aircraft has a two person flightdeck and is designed to be operated by said two persons. The CARP is computer generated (sometimes with manual assistance) and the system armed by manually putting the red light on. The computer then puts the green light on automatically (for SLR drops).
We get a lot of practice at all the para disciplines which is partly why the DT article rankled so much in the first place. That and the fact it was generally bollocks.
I have no idea what happened with the blokes going into the trees suffice to say accidents happen. Quite what the army plans to replace the C130 with for their mass airdrops I don't know but I wish them the best of luck with their pipe dreams.
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AA:
While I'm happy to agree with that sentiment entirely there is the little issue of 1 1/2 miles... Link
Now, there's risk put upon one by the nature of the job and there's that put upon you by the incompetence/errors/call it what you will of others... Put me on the DZ and in a tree - My problem. Put me a mile from the DZ in trees - Your problem.
Someone mentioned that maybe the DZ co-ordinates were wrong. *COUGH* It's Otterburn... It's a fixed, mapped DZ that has probably been there since I was jumping.
Frankly if the guys don't like the prospect of landing in trees/water/slurry pits then they should join a craphat regiment.
Now, there's risk put upon one by the nature of the job and there's that put upon you by the incompetence/errors/call it what you will of others... Put me on the DZ and in a tree - My problem. Put me a mile from the DZ in trees - Your problem.
Someone mentioned that maybe the DZ co-ordinates were wrong. *COUGH* It's Otterburn... It's a fixed, mapped DZ that has probably been there since I was jumping.
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Believe it or not, aircraft don't need Navigators anymore. You see as well as the thrust and Lift Demons used by all Lockheed aircraft in this particular case they have installed lots of nav pixies who do lots and lots of calculations really really quickly. The best thing is, is that they are always right.
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Exactly.
* All agenda's aside, of course...
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Is that better Airborne
Seriously. I don't mind slapping the stupid but I do think it's important that the stupid are properly identified before the slapping, (metaphorical, of course), begins.
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We don't hate all of you. I did tell everybody to stop picking on you guys in my last post.
Look, in the flying world there things called authorisation sheets. Lots of information gets recorded in these authorisation sheets, including the names of the crew. So it will be easy to find out who the big nasty navigator was who got his or her sums wrong that made the big rufty tufty paras land in the trees and start crying.
Look, in the flying world there things called authorisation sheets. Lots of information gets recorded in these authorisation sheets, including the names of the crew. So it will be easy to find out who the big nasty navigator was who got his or her sums wrong that made the big rufty tufty paras land in the trees and start crying.
Quit trolling... You're terrible at it...
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Hey, nobody forced them to jump. They could have steered away from the trees. Maybe that would have stopped them from bleating to the newspapers.
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Hey, nobody forced them to jump. They could have steered away from the trees. Maybe that would have stopped them from bleating to the newspapers.
He reminds me of where this is "aimed"...
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Would never have happened if the Falcs had been there
Nice to see all the standard statements coming out and if somebody really did say all that, then you have to wonder about the mindset of some of these guys. I would love to know what really happened too and I seem to recall that's what they get Para pay for.
All that before breakfast
Nice to see all the standard statements coming out and if somebody really did say all that, then you have to wonder about the mindset of some of these guys. I would love to know what really happened too and I seem to recall that's what they get Para pay for.
All that before breakfast
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Morning!
Clockwork Mouse: I was referring to the previous article on priority for training.
Top Bunk Tester: Respect, I didn't doubt it. I can only speak for the 'youth' of today in terms of holds. I nearly mentioned Atari and NES but I was worried you'd think I was taking the mick
In terms of PR, while the Reds may be 'higher profile', if you look at cost/benefit, the view changes somewhat. The first units/items to be looked at when seeking spending cuts will surely be those with the biggest cost. Compare a carrier to a much smaller item, the Red Arrows to a much smaller unit and the perspective changes. Only time will tell eh? As for PTS as a whole, as I understand things, it exists principally to provide parachute trg (yes, the Display team use that tour to gain the experience required to instruct, along side the PR value). As such, it will probably not be targeted in itself. If the (mainly Land-owned) para capable units remain untouched, then PTS will too...and vice versa.
c130jbloke: I don't take it personally. A fair point, well presented...only...if you're 'thinking about the next war', something to consider. While the mass parachute insertion capability may not be fully applicable against the asymmetric threat of insurgents in the 'stan, can't you see the value of it in potential future conflicts? Examining where the threat is most likely to come from, and the sizeable standing armies we may face, there is great value in retaining the capability, non?
As for staring down the barrel of a potentially loaded P45...it does somewhat sharpen the focus...
Clockwork Mouse: I was referring to the previous article on priority for training.
Top Bunk Tester: Respect, I didn't doubt it. I can only speak for the 'youth' of today in terms of holds. I nearly mentioned Atari and NES but I was worried you'd think I was taking the mick
In terms of PR, while the Reds may be 'higher profile', if you look at cost/benefit, the view changes somewhat. The first units/items to be looked at when seeking spending cuts will surely be those with the biggest cost. Compare a carrier to a much smaller item, the Red Arrows to a much smaller unit and the perspective changes. Only time will tell eh? As for PTS as a whole, as I understand things, it exists principally to provide parachute trg (yes, the Display team use that tour to gain the experience required to instruct, along side the PR value). As such, it will probably not be targeted in itself. If the (mainly Land-owned) para capable units remain untouched, then PTS will too...and vice versa. c130jbloke: I don't take it personally. A fair point, well presented...only...if you're 'thinking about the next war', something to consider. While the mass parachute insertion capability may not be fully applicable against the asymmetric threat of insurgents in the 'stan, can't you see the value of it in potential future conflicts? Examining where the threat is most likely to come from, and the sizeable standing armies we may face, there is great value in retaining the capability, non?
As for staring down the barrel of a potentially loaded P45...it does somewhat sharpen the focus...
