Sir Glen Speaks!
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Lightningmate and Ancient Aviator
Thank you for that lightningmate.
Yes my mistake.
Bit obvious looking at it now (re John Farley).
I will delete my post if anyone wants me to, I just haven't done it yet, or your comment would not make sense to others.
I will now go and take myself to the "step inn" have words with myself
Barnstormer1968
(Talking of Purdey, does anyone still have fond memories of the "THE NEW AVENGERS")
Yes my mistake.
Bit obvious looking at it now (re John Farley).
I will delete my post if anyone wants me to, I just haven't done it yet, or your comment would not make sense to others.
I will now go and take myself to the "step inn" have words with myself
Barnstormer1968
(Talking of Purdey, does anyone still have fond memories of the "THE NEW AVENGERS")
Last edited by barnstormer1968; 31st Aug 2008 at 20:46. Reason: forgot to credit Ancient Aviator
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Ah, the field sport of Pprune: BBC bashing. How about:
Ms Wyatt wanted to mention the Tristar / Air Bridge issue, but they had no Tristars to film. So they framed a shot of a similar transport aircraft such that it looked reasonably generic. It was that or fail to mention the issue at all (you do need some pictures for TV you know, you can't just talk over black).
Ms Wyatt wanted to mention the Tristar / Air Bridge issue, but they had no Tristars to film. So they framed a shot of a similar transport aircraft such that it looked reasonably generic. It was that or fail to mention the issue at all (you do need some pictures for TV you know, you can't just talk over black).
if the BBC haven't got library footage of every type of aircraft in the RAF inventory then they are doubly incompetent.
John Purdey, the man you are appealing loyalty for is Sir Glenn Torpy! Loyalty was the very issue that started this exchange, loyalty for Sir Glenn yes, but loyalty also from Sir Glenn in exchange. That is, if you like, the covenant of leadership, and leaders have to be prepared to pay the price of that loyalty from time to time. Your post showed that CGS is prepared to do so. We wait and wait for the CAS to do the same. As for sand, none around here, it's all nice and comfy here in blighty isn't it? So that's all right then!
Barnstormer, don't feel bad. You "manned up" as I believe is the expression. Would that others in the higher echelons learned that art! As to The New Avengers, are yes that I do remember; Patrick MacNee and the delicious Joanna Lumley, AKA John Steed & Purdey. I say, I've just noticed something, could it be? No, surely not!
Barnstormer, don't feel bad. You "manned up" as I believe is the expression. Would that others in the higher echelons learned that art! As to The New Avengers, are yes that I do remember; Patrick MacNee and the delicious Joanna Lumley, AKA John Steed & Purdey. I say, I've just noticed something, could it be? No, surely not!
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[QUOTE][spent defence money procuring equipment at twice the cost of a cheaper, battle proven alternative, from outside of the ever-more-expensive UK industry./QUOTE]
A simplistic view!...you forget the rates,vat, NI contributions etc. generated by the factories and their employees....then there's the transport infrastructure....fuel duty, road-tax...more vat....all creating revenue back into the government's other pocket! and keeping officialdom employed.
Unfortunately, the inept "civil-service" (an oxymoron ,if ever there was one) is a self-serving beaurocracyand until people are held truly accountable, will continue to be so.
Were there to be proper sanctions-sacking, loss of pension rights etc. applied to the incompetent, we ,as tax-payers, might get better value for money.
This scandalous story is an illustration of just what's wrong with this country's bloated incompetent administration......unfortunately, anyone who does have the intelligence AND integrity to question the status-quo............
A simplistic view!...you forget the rates,vat, NI contributions etc. generated by the factories and their employees....then there's the transport infrastructure....fuel duty, road-tax...more vat....all creating revenue back into the government's other pocket! and keeping officialdom employed.
Unfortunately, the inept "civil-service" (an oxymoron ,if ever there was one) is a self-serving beaurocracyand until people are held truly accountable, will continue to be so.
Were there to be proper sanctions-sacking, loss of pension rights etc. applied to the incompetent, we ,as tax-payers, might get better value for money.
This scandalous story is an illustration of just what's wrong with this country's bloated incompetent administration......unfortunately, anyone who does have the intelligence AND integrity to question the status-quo............
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John P
What is it about Sir Glenn that you obviously admire so much?
Is it his leadership? His loyalty to his troops? Maybe it's his aviating skills as a pilot? Whatever it is, I can state that you are wrong on ALL counts.
And before you start questioning me about my loyalty blah, I can tell you that the Air Force had many many years of loyalty from me (and countless thousands of others too) but in the main, the loyalty coming back was abysmal to say the least.
Sir Glenn Torpy has shown himself to be a poor leader, with an inability to stand up for his troops and return the loyalty that has been given to him. I have yet to hear him utter a single word about the cuts that have destroyed 'his' Air Force and left it in the pathetic mess it is today. His single claim-to-fame is the procurement of hundreds of Typhoons - just what the boys need in the sand pit eh?
Why has he not had the guts to stand up in public and criticise the appalling defence cuts. (Probably because he's looking for a nice little job at BAEs maybe??) Why has he never complained about the lack of manpower, both aircrew and groundcrew? and why, having lost Nimrod 230, did he say that the aircraft was 'as safe as it needs to be' Just a pathetic and spineless statement from a pretty spineless and useless CAS. Sorry Glenn, it's time you hung up your flying suit.
Oh and as for his aviating skills - I'm afraid you'll have to ask a Fast Jet Mate about that. But, we all know that rank bears no reflection to someones aviating abilities, so I doubt if he is particularly talented in that area either.
What is it about Sir Glenn that you obviously admire so much?
Is it his leadership? His loyalty to his troops? Maybe it's his aviating skills as a pilot? Whatever it is, I can state that you are wrong on ALL counts.
And before you start questioning me about my loyalty blah, I can tell you that the Air Force had many many years of loyalty from me (and countless thousands of others too) but in the main, the loyalty coming back was abysmal to say the least.
Sir Glenn Torpy has shown himself to be a poor leader, with an inability to stand up for his troops and return the loyalty that has been given to him. I have yet to hear him utter a single word about the cuts that have destroyed 'his' Air Force and left it in the pathetic mess it is today. His single claim-to-fame is the procurement of hundreds of Typhoons - just what the boys need in the sand pit eh?
Why has he not had the guts to stand up in public and criticise the appalling defence cuts. (Probably because he's looking for a nice little job at BAEs maybe??) Why has he never complained about the lack of manpower, both aircrew and groundcrew? and why, having lost Nimrod 230, did he say that the aircraft was 'as safe as it needs to be' Just a pathetic and spineless statement from a pretty spineless and useless CAS. Sorry Glenn, it's time you hung up your flying suit.
Oh and as for his aviating skills - I'm afraid you'll have to ask a Fast Jet Mate about that. But, we all know that rank bears no reflection to someones aviating abilities, so I doubt if he is particularly talented in that area either.
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With apolgies for thread drift ...
Unfortunately, the inept "civil-service" (an oxymoron ,if ever there was one) is a self-serving beaurocracyand until people are held truly accountable, will continue to be so.
Were there to be proper sanctions-sacking, loss of pension rights etc. applied to the incompetent, we ,as tax-payers, might get better value for money.
Just wanted to ask if this regime would apply to the incompetent among the uniformed services as well?
Room 40 (former civil servant who tried hard to be 'ept' and whose excrement is gripped by this sort of gereralised drivel)
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Sir Glenn
Wingco. Calm down. Just as well you can hide behind the anonymity of Pprune, isn't it? What on earth has the man done to you to deserve such venom? As to the name Purdey (see above) it is also the name of a well-known shot-gun. I am about to load both barrels in the hope of bumping into.........!!!!!! JP
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Another good knock the RAF and slag off Typhoon comment, good one Winco. Having seen Sir Glenn at close quarters and the political wrangling he is forced to endure, he does stand up for his guys and he does lead, perhaps not in the way you expect that is for those slightly lower down the chain to demonstrate. As far as I recall, he isn't the one who committed us to Typhoon and perhaps you should look higher for blame (and a little further back in procurement terms) and then it may all become clear.
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Winco,
I must confess that I never realised that you could be an Boeing 747 Captain with just a CPL - times have obviously changed!!
Perhaps, though, as you apparently currently fly a 747; perhaps you could explain your expertise in the Man Management aspects of being CAS - in particular your expertise in dealing with the current occupant of No 10.
No; not Acacia Avenue - Downing Street!!!
PS;
How many CAS's have you flown with?
I have flown with 3 who were piloting the aircraft with me (a Spec Aircrew Flt Lt) as Captain. None of the 3 had ever flown that particular aircraft type before. I would, however, point out that I was a Flight Instructor/Examiner and IRE on that Type.
Moreover, in each case said CAS wanted to hear from myself, and also my Flt Cdr Navigator, exactly what we thought were the problems facing the RAF and what were the issues that affected people on a day to day basis. The ALM and Cpl Stewards were also consulted on aspects that affected them.
How often do your Company Execs come and ask you about your concerns???
PPS
I do remember getting an apoplectic Command Accountant on the phone regarding the rejection of a claim for a Boarding House bill (there were not any Hotels in that particular Town) after Gp had revised our itinerary to collect a Chinese Delegation in the early hours of the next morning. The CinC rejected the viewpoint of the Accountants that there was nothing in QR's that said you were allowed to go to sleep during the day!!
I merely said that I would raise his concerns with the C in C when we were flying together the next day. There was some form of strangled cry and the line went dead.
I must confess that I never realised that you could be an Boeing 747 Captain with just a CPL - times have obviously changed!!
Perhaps, though, as you apparently currently fly a 747; perhaps you could explain your expertise in the Man Management aspects of being CAS - in particular your expertise in dealing with the current occupant of No 10.
No; not Acacia Avenue - Downing Street!!!
PS;
How many CAS's have you flown with?
I have flown with 3 who were piloting the aircraft with me (a Spec Aircrew Flt Lt) as Captain. None of the 3 had ever flown that particular aircraft type before. I would, however, point out that I was a Flight Instructor/Examiner and IRE on that Type.
Moreover, in each case said CAS wanted to hear from myself, and also my Flt Cdr Navigator, exactly what we thought were the problems facing the RAF and what were the issues that affected people on a day to day basis. The ALM and Cpl Stewards were also consulted on aspects that affected them.
How often do your Company Execs come and ask you about your concerns???
PPS
I do remember getting an apoplectic Command Accountant on the phone regarding the rejection of a claim for a Boarding House bill (there were not any Hotels in that particular Town) after Gp had revised our itinerary to collect a Chinese Delegation in the early hours of the next morning. The CinC rejected the viewpoint of the Accountants that there was nothing in QR's that said you were allowed to go to sleep during the day!!
I merely said that I would raise his concerns with the C in C when we were flying together the next day. There was some form of strangled cry and the line went dead.
Last edited by cazatou; 1st Sep 2008 at 16:33.
His single claim-to-fame is the procurement of hundreds of Typhoons - just what the boys need in the sand pit eh?
The first Tranche of Typhoons was signed years ago, I think Sir Peter Squire was CAS at the time.
The second Tranche was ordered when Sir Jock Stirrup was CAS.
Number of Typhoons procured under current CAS? Zero.
If the Tranche 3 negotiations conclude while he's still CAS and we end up buying some/all of them, then he'll have overseen the ordering of 88, largely, though, because his hands are tied by inter-governmental agreements signed while he was commanding a squadron.
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Winco,
Come on, don't be shy.
Comment one way of the other!!!!!!
Of course, we all know that you cannot substantiate in any way, shape or form the theories you have postulated.
Post your proof - or admit you were WRONG
Come on, don't be shy.
Comment one way of the other!!!!!!
Of course, we all know that you cannot substantiate in any way, shape or form the theories you have postulated.
Post your proof - or admit you were WRONG
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Cazatou,
Firstly, do try to give people just a little bit of time to respond - not all of us can sit on Prune all day long you know, some of us do have another life!
Secondly, don't show your ignorance by suggesting that I fly a 747 on a CPL alone, simply because that's all I've put on my public forum, thats just stupid, and as an ex pilot you should know better. If you would like me to list all of my licences and tickets for different aircraft, then drop me a PM and when I've got nothing better to do, then I'll gladly pass them all on to you.
My company execs regularly discuss things with me (and all the other pilots) and I'm pleased to say that in the main, they not only listen but act.
I'm sorry, but I have no experience in dealing with the occupant of No 10 at all.
Now then, if you are an ex RAF pilot, instead of me justifying why I think Torpy is a poor leader, why don't you come out and tell us what he has done that you feel displays the leadership expected of the head of the RAF, and why you disagree with me on this, and many many others.
There are countless examples of poor leadership, and you don't need me or anyone else to list them for you. Would I be correct in thinking that perhaps you would say that the CDS was WRONG with his public outburst against financial cuts, manpower cuts, equipment cuts that are affecting the services??
I think that I have flown with 4 or 5 CAS's over the years - but I'm not sure what your point is here? Yes they will all listen to you, and yes they will all show keen interest, but how many of them responded to any complaints you might have had? And I note that you didn't comment on their aviating skills, only on how good they were at listening?
The point is, we're not talking about a bloody travel claim here man, we are talking about the lives of our men and women, in theatre, who are being put at risk by a lack of support, equipment and Christ knows what else. I agree that is NOT the fault of CAS, but what do we hear from him about the shortages..............NOT A LOT!
Now, if you think the Sir Glenn is a good CAS, then you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. However, the vast majority of the rank and file of todays RAF are sick and tired of having a CAS, who wouldn't say 'Boo' to a goose! Nevermind stand up for 'his' boys and girls.
And finally, his handling of the Nimrod loss sums him up IMHO. I, for one, will never forgive him for saying that the aircraft is as safe as it needs to be. That was shameful and and shows a really poor sense of judgement, wouldn't you agree?
Now then, I'm away for the next couple of days, so if I don't answer any of your posts withing 10 minutes, try to refrain from further posts with very large writing please - I'm not blind yet thank you.
Firstly, do try to give people just a little bit of time to respond - not all of us can sit on Prune all day long you know, some of us do have another life!
Secondly, don't show your ignorance by suggesting that I fly a 747 on a CPL alone, simply because that's all I've put on my public forum, thats just stupid, and as an ex pilot you should know better. If you would like me to list all of my licences and tickets for different aircraft, then drop me a PM and when I've got nothing better to do, then I'll gladly pass them all on to you.
My company execs regularly discuss things with me (and all the other pilots) and I'm pleased to say that in the main, they not only listen but act.
I'm sorry, but I have no experience in dealing with the occupant of No 10 at all.
Now then, if you are an ex RAF pilot, instead of me justifying why I think Torpy is a poor leader, why don't you come out and tell us what he has done that you feel displays the leadership expected of the head of the RAF, and why you disagree with me on this, and many many others.
There are countless examples of poor leadership, and you don't need me or anyone else to list them for you. Would I be correct in thinking that perhaps you would say that the CDS was WRONG with his public outburst against financial cuts, manpower cuts, equipment cuts that are affecting the services??
I think that I have flown with 4 or 5 CAS's over the years - but I'm not sure what your point is here? Yes they will all listen to you, and yes they will all show keen interest, but how many of them responded to any complaints you might have had? And I note that you didn't comment on their aviating skills, only on how good they were at listening?
The point is, we're not talking about a bloody travel claim here man, we are talking about the lives of our men and women, in theatre, who are being put at risk by a lack of support, equipment and Christ knows what else. I agree that is NOT the fault of CAS, but what do we hear from him about the shortages..............NOT A LOT!
Now, if you think the Sir Glenn is a good CAS, then you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. However, the vast majority of the rank and file of todays RAF are sick and tired of having a CAS, who wouldn't say 'Boo' to a goose! Nevermind stand up for 'his' boys and girls.
And finally, his handling of the Nimrod loss sums him up IMHO. I, for one, will never forgive him for saying that the aircraft is as safe as it needs to be. That was shameful and and shows a really poor sense of judgement, wouldn't you agree?
Now then, I'm away for the next couple of days, so if I don't answer any of your posts withing 10 minutes, try to refrain from further posts with very large writing please - I'm not blind yet thank you.
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CAS lost the vote when he stated that the Nimrod, "was as safe as it needed to be."
A bloody awful statement from a man you would expect more from. He was done nothing for the RAF since becoming CAS, absolute zip.
Asking you are during a flight is fine, shame nothing is done about your concerns. "It's about my quarter sir" "Medical care is in decline sir" "Sir, our SH are buggered, can we get some more & not just a few for a short term fix?"
Shame is, the chaps in waiting for the job will be just as spineless...You have to be in order to get the job. CGS slipped through the net however, he has been quickly sidelined since the shock discovery of his ability to speak out.
Plenty of guys from the branch I'm in are jumping ship (not sure about the rest of you) and nobody is trying to stop them.
Why stay in a job when the MD could not give a toss or, is unable to make a difference (either way, that makes him totally redundant)? It's made even worse by the fact that CDS is RAF too. VERY brave of him to speak out AFTER his job was secured for another 3 years...
A bloody awful statement from a man you would expect more from. He was done nothing for the RAF since becoming CAS, absolute zip.
Asking you are during a flight is fine, shame nothing is done about your concerns. "It's about my quarter sir" "Medical care is in decline sir" "Sir, our SH are buggered, can we get some more & not just a few for a short term fix?"
Shame is, the chaps in waiting for the job will be just as spineless...You have to be in order to get the job. CGS slipped through the net however, he has been quickly sidelined since the shock discovery of his ability to speak out.
Plenty of guys from the branch I'm in are jumping ship (not sure about the rest of you) and nobody is trying to stop them.
Why stay in a job when the MD could not give a toss or, is unable to make a difference (either way, that makes him totally redundant)? It's made even worse by the fact that CDS is RAF too. VERY brave of him to speak out AFTER his job was secured for another 3 years...
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Perhaps it's the increasing politicization of the higher levels..? If you are going to get high up in the service, you have to play the game perhaps in the hope that when you get there, you will be able to change things from within. Then when you get there, you realise that if you tell the truth and speak out you get sidelined. Having seen some of the manoeuvring that goes on at that level, the amount of back-stabbing and a**e covering that goes on is phenomenal because everyone is scared of being found wanting. Perhaps if we hadn't agonised over things and spent time looking over shoulders, we would have sorted Iraq out, be well on the way in Afghanistan and have a procurement system that is more coherent that TK Max and we wouldn't be existing on UORs.
Anyway, when I asked CAS for assistance on something, he actually took direct action and sorted things out to the benefit of the people I was working with. Not terribly notable I know, but it does show that when he was operating at a non-political level, he was ready to swing into action. I don't envy him operating amongst the cesspool of Government.
Anyway, when I asked CAS for assistance on something, he actually took direct action and sorted things out to the benefit of the people I was working with. Not terribly notable I know, but it does show that when he was operating at a non-political level, he was ready to swing into action. I don't envy him operating amongst the cesspool of Government.