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-   -   Sir Glen Speaks! (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/341126-sir-glen-speaks.html)

insty66 30th Aug 2008 08:36

Sir Glen Speaks!
 
On the BBC so it must be true.

BBC NEWS | UK | With the RAF in Iraq and Afghanistan

dallas 30th Aug 2008 09:01

Everything sounds really good; people on OOA are all really happy and life is easy back in the UK. Oh yeah, and 41,000 are enough - apparently.

Maybe I'll stay, after all. :hmm:

mick2088 30th Aug 2008 09:09

The RAF has three Reapers? I thought it had two with a third on the way (to replace the one that crashed) and the 10 extra Reaper plan had been abandoned.

Chugalug2 30th Aug 2008 11:03

CAS:

"I'm certainly concerned about resources," he admits. "We have down-sized the air force to 41,000 people, and that has made us as lean, I believe, as we should be.....
The government decides how much money defence gets and it is our job to spend it as effectively as possible, and try to maintain the balance in our core structure to fight today's wars - and to prepare for tomorrow's wars as well."
Well that's you off the hook then Sir Glenn, it's all the fault of those tight fisted politicians! Not in my book I'm afraid. When things started to get bad, let alone bloody awful as they are now, it was your duty on behalf of your subordinates to draw a line in the sand. Thus far and no further, with the clear implication that if resources were still with-held you would complain loud clear and publicly, and if still no heed was taken you would resign, loud clear and publicly, with the further implication that you would continue your tirade in retirement, loud clear and publicly. Fanciful, unrealistic, naive? Perhaps, but very compelling for the young men and women for whom YOU are responsible. What good would it have done? Who knows - it's never been tried in the Royal Air Force!

philhird 30th Aug 2008 11:16

Priceless BBC- talking about problems with tristars and showing footage of Omni DC-10...nice

insty66 30th Aug 2008 11:18


Priceless BBC- talking about problems with tristars and showing footage of Omni DC-10...nice
That was exactly my thought:hmm:

Chugalug2 30th Aug 2008 13:28

Mileandahalf:

Chug are you talking about.......loyalty?
Damned right I am. It's a two way thing, demonstrated in my time by my bosses, over and over again. Why did they do it? Because they KNEW their duty to their subordinates. I hope, but doubt, that is still the case of commanders, or more correctly subordinate commanders, today. Sir Glenn is not a Commander, nor are his CinCs, nor are his AOCs. They are managers, always have been, always will be. However they still have a responsibility to their subordinates in general and to their Service in particular. He and they have reneged on that responsibility. They should all go and be replaced by those more capable than they. There are none? Oh yes there are, there always are, and time of war is when you have to find them and promote them. Time is of the essence as the lawyers say.

Vox Populi 30th Aug 2008 14:35


Priceless BBC- talking about problems with tristars and showing footage of Omni DC-10...nice
Ah, the field sport of Pprune: BBC bashing.

How about:

Ms Wyatt wanted to mention the Tristar / Air Bridge issue, but they had no Tristars to film. So they framed a shot of a similar transport aircraft such that it looked reasonably generic. It was that or fail to mention the issue at all (you do need some pictures for TV you know, you can't just talk over black).

Not really fair to bash her for that, in a very nicely crafted 7 min piece.

vp

John Purdey 31st Aug 2008 09:12

Sir Glen
 
Chugalug2. Please tell this civilian from which pinnacle of high responsibility do you feel qualified to criticize, by name and publically, your CAS when you know that he is unable to reply?

nigegilb 31st Aug 2008 09:21

Are you part of the new Stasi or something?

I hope you are not upsetting Torpy as well by spelling his name wrong....

Alber Ratman 31st Aug 2008 09:50

I like Omni Air DC10's!

Chugalug2 31st Aug 2008 10:36

John Purdey:

Chugalug2. Please tell this civilian from which pinnacle of high responsibility do you feel qualified to criticize, by name and publically, your CAS when you know that he is unable to reply?
Well the same one as you I guess, being as I'm a civilian as well. If you are minded to defend Sir Glenn's record then please go ahead. And he is able to reply and should, not to me as I am of no account whatsoever (thought I'd get that one in before you did!), but to the groundswell of concern at the state of the RAF from within and without. It is not necessarily entirely his fault, but it is his responsibility and needs urgently attending to. As his "attending" has got us to where we are today, I would suggest that future "attending" be best left to someone more able. For just as I am of no account, nor in comparison to the security of this nation and the future of the Royal Air Force is he, nor any other individual.

You have sat too long for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!
P.S. I know you're going to make a big deal about me hiding behind an anonymous tag, so game set and match to you. It never occurred to me to register my real name as my user one, as you (presumably) and Nigel have done, perhaps I should have. But I made my bed and must lie on it, I'm certainly not going to change horses now because you say so! (Horses, beds....???).

The Real Slim Shady 31st Aug 2008 10:39

That poor Harrier pilot Ben needs some rations!

Are you lads all on diets?

John Purdey 31st Aug 2008 12:41

Sir Glen
 
Chugalug and Mileandahalf. Before I wind my neck in, as you so graciously put it, I have to say that you contributions remind me of the old days, just before the bar closed in the NAAFI. Regards. JP

John Purdey 31st Aug 2008 13:59

Sir Glen
 
Mileandahalf. The answer is a simple interest in fair play. If Torpy or others in similar positions are to be critised in the media, they are usually offered the opportunity to reply. Even if they are not, then at least they know who it is having a go at them. This is obviously not the case in Prune, is it.?
What is more, I think you forget that Torpy and others are very constrained by ministers in what they may or may not say. Do you not recall the incident when CGS (the present very good one) was thought to have spoken out of turn, and was thefore recalled post haste to the minister's office in MOD to explain himself, leaving his wife behind to take the graduation parade at Dartmouth?
Apologies for the minor typing error; I thought we were on an intellectual plane a little higher than quibbles like that.
With all good wishes. JP

Chugalug2 31st Aug 2008 14:32

John Purdey:

What is more, I think you forget that Torpy and others are very constrained by ministers in what they may or may not say. Do you not recall the incident when CGS (the present very good one) was thought to have spoken out of turn, and was thefore recalled post haste to the minister's office in MOD to explain himself, leaving his wife behind to take the graduation parade at Dartmouth?

Well that's what the problem is isn't it JP? CGS is not constrained and gets his message across (then gets a smacked wrist, and verbal no doubt from Mrs CGS), CAS is constrained and simply gets the "DS solution" across. Of course there is a cost to "speaking out" but not half as much as the cost of having to use kit that is unfit for purpose when at war! Time for a change in the higher command of the RAF before there is no RAF!
Thanks for manning the fort Mileandahalf, I'm afraid I was absent from my post. Think anyone noticed?

barnstormer1968 31st Aug 2008 14:55

John Purdey, and mileandahalf
 
Gentlemen, I can see your debate is ongoing. Can I please add my two-penneth worth please.
From an outsiders point of view I can both agree with JP and disagree with him.
Very few folks in the aviation world would ever dismiss any of JP's views on avaition (and especially in the VTOL world), and indeed many would look upon him as a world expert, BUT I also think that in your later career JP, you were somewhat "spoiled".

For example, you were listened to by senior figures, and could often have your point of view both listened to, and "heard". I think one of the big gripes in today's British forces is that no-one is listened to, resulting in a feeling of low morale, frustration and also helplessness.

I also think that times, and the attitude of modern management are different. JP, you may well remember how one of the ground staff (not sure on that point, but not a TP) knew well in advance of the TP's that the Harrier's/Kestrel's outrigger wheels would wobble in use. He was listened to..... Imagine if he (and others) had been ignored, and had to watch crews struggle with this problem for the next 30 years!

It is also possible that there is some "rose coloured vision" going on, now that it is not your life on the line (no offence meant. Maybe similar to how is is easier to babysit someone elses children, as you know you can give them back).

As for JP being a windup merchant, I always thought that was an essential quality of a TP.:}

Barnstormer1968

lightningmate 31st Aug 2008 15:35

barnstormer,

I think you have confused John Purdey with John Farley.

lm

Chugalug2 31st Aug 2008 15:39

Wise words Barnstormer. I don't enjoy posting as I have done on this thread, but when you follow other threads that have displayed the woeful circumstances in UK Military Airworthiness on the Nimrod, Hercules and Chinook fleets alone, as well as unacceptable administrative shortcomings causing further stress to those forever being sent "sausage side" one gets the sickening feeling that a point of no return has been passed, and where to now? Perhaps the worst aspect of all, and the most "unfixable" is the rush for the doors by experienced and skilled personnel. The CAS might as well accompany his platitudes with a lyre given the strong smell of Rome burning! I must admit not being aware of JP's illustrious career as a TP. Perhaps he might air his opinion of the situation where an aircraft type (the Chinook HC2) was in squadron service despite not being released by Boscombe Down who grounded theirs the day before the Mull tragedy? I know that wasn't under this CAS but is symptomatic of the trend into territory that was unimaginable in my day.

Sand4Gold 31st Aug 2008 16:48

The Harrier Development Story - by John Farley OBE AFC CEng

John Farley's Lecture


A very good read........


AA


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