Half of the Armed Forces considering quitting!

[TonkaEngO]

PVR phone calls

Manning are ringing people up and asking if a change of location/employment would get them to change their mind - fact. However, offering promotion - I think not.
I believe that this is a good move, notwithstanding the reasons that have caused it, if we can keep good guys/girls in by a move to another stn or a change of job then why not do it.

I can only speak for TG1 but the PVR figures for 07/08 are not significantly different to historic norms.

[spheroid]

Exactly - When you are deployed at sea for months on end then mail is V high on the morale stakes. Phones calls are ok but 10 minutes a week is a bit tight.

[Wrathmonk]

I believe PVR rate is a complete red herring. If you want to see the real exit rates from the Armed Forces have a look at how many are leaving at a break point/optional retirement date i.e those who are turning down an offer of extension to service (inc the promotion that goes with it). Don't think they track those stats and if they did they certainly wouldn't quote them (the grapevine suggests 95+% of pilots are leaving at their 38/16 point ....)

And of course the quoted figures, particularly those that state all is well because we are 90-odd% manned, fail to reflect experience levels. Do people really believe a fully qualified pilot/technician leaving after 20 odd years and umpteen operational tours can be replaced in anything other than numerical terms by a FNG/sprog? Manning balance perhaps, but certainly not experience balance.

[spheroid]

What is the point of the 38/16 break point? Is it to allow people to stay in......or for people to leave....?

[skaterboi]

Good post Wrathmonk. It would be simple to find out who's staying and who's going though - you just have to look at the pension stats to see who transferred to the new scheme and that's your answer!

I have considered quitting very seriously but will 99% stay until my 16/38 point now for the hours and the pension. However, I have no intention of staying in past it. It is with quite a bit of sadness that I've arrived at this decision because I naively thought I'd stay until 55 when I finished IOT 10 years ago.

But the simple fact is the RAF fails to look after it's people and with the woeful investment and leadership from on high I see no alternative. My fleet is dying a rapid death and along with the other legacy fleets we have, coupled with delays for new ac and the impending move to Brize, I don't the future is that rosy from where I'm standing.

[minigundiplomat]

OK, lets have a few serving guys putting their cards on the table. Staying, PVRing or leaving at next IPP etc?

Im going at IPP within 2 years.

[N_1]

Leaving at IPP in one year. No posting or cash incentive would change my mind.

N_1

[CirrusF]

In Blighty PLC we now have a very flexible workforce of which HM Forces can be included, industries come and go, some stay around, some boom some bust - funny old thing your average young serviceman can re-train and get a job fairly successfully, on average in Blighty PLC/Village in the flexible market.

Very good post, Nostrinian. And I think that to take your thoughts further, and combine it with the recent Strategic Review of UK Reserve Forces, there is a case for encouraging even closer assimilation between civilian/reserves/military UK assets. Not only would it be healthy for democracy as a whole in the UK, but I think that the military could benefit if it were easier for servicemen to leave, get a taste of civvy life, realise it is not always that cushy, and rejoin, and arguably it would benefit the military if it were easier for some late-entry reserves/civvies to join the military ab-initio at a later cut off age than the current limits. Economic history shows again and again that no profession or industry benefits from a closed shop and restricted labour mobility.

[The Dodger]

PVR phone calls

Manning are ringing people up and asking if a change of location/employment would get them to change their mind - fact. However, offering promotion - I think not.
I believe that this is a good move, notwithstanding the reasons that have caused it, if we can keep good guys/girls in by a move to another stn or a change of job then why not do it.

I can only speak for TG1 but the PVR figures for 07/08 are not significantly different to historic norms.

I am out of the service now, however the above actions by ACOS could have persuaded me to think again before I put in my PVR, notice. I seem to recall ACOS manning's mission statement. One part of it contained the words, to effictivly manage careers. If they had done that from the very start, I think we would not be seeing half the problems we are seeing today. It's a sad state of affairs but who is to blame for all of this? You can only push people so far before they vote with there feet.

[KeepItTidy]

Wrathmonk has it 100% spot on , the talk where I am and a fast jet base just 6 miles across the road seems that most TG1 will not extend beyond there current engagement ( I would harbour a guess at 90%) although that may be exagerated but asking the 40 odd lads in crewroom only 4 wished to stay in at present. We worked it out and within our place of work within 3 years we are due to loose a lot of people , I mean a lot of people that will make our fleet unsustainable, just as well they are out of service by 2010. These are the facts and figures the thousands of officers in the Air Force are supposed to be keeping track off and adjusting things to ensure continuity , but I think this time the officer core have really screwed over the RAF this time , its not the taliban that has brought the Air Force to its knees in its 90th year , its the Airships that run it. Fact !!
For years people have said and said yet nobody listened and now look where we are , it really is the end , there is no way back from this.

[dallas]

OK, lets have a few serving guys putting their cards on the table. Staying, PVRing or leaving at next IPP etc?

Took LOS30 because it was there, but have since put my notice in just past my 22 year point. Lots of reasons, but not necessarily the tabloid/headline ones.

[Wrathmonk]

And another indicator - try booking onto any of the useful resettlement courses at Aldershot. Applications outstripping availability - my advice (from experience!) is once you have made the decision to go, and you are eligible to attend resettlement training, get your applications in.

PS - edit for MGD. <200 days, leaving at break point.

[Birdbath]

I was one of those who said they were intending to leave at an option point (22/44). However, there is a recession on the way and despite the frustrations I have a garanteed job till 55 and if things improve I can give 12 months notice and pocket my pension (unlike those who transferred). Exit rates have been increasing but I bet they will start reducing once the job market drys up.

[StopStart]

39yr old PAS staying on thanks very much. Enjoy the job and not really that fussed about going away on det/ex lots. Get to do cool stuff with big military planes and not particularly interested in doing dull stuff with big civvy planes.

[KeepItTidy]

Yep the recession we been told so many stories it will last 6-7 years to it wont affect us too much, nobody can predict what will happen and if you have a family a mortgage then signing in and staying in is the best option , me personally have given many years and my next exit point I will leave , no matter what money and promotions are thrown at me I need a change , I will have given 22 years of my life to the military and dont regret. I just wish I could give more but I dont see leadership or anything , i just see a void and really cannot see how it can be made good. Even if I was made up to a SNCO or above, I know 1 person cannot make a difference in a force run by monkeys. Slay the chimps at the top starting with the quiet one erm whats his name chimp torpy , bring back Dannet and give him the job as he is somebody I could fight for as he fights for us. He got shafted big time for being honest . That says so much for the military today.

Rant over

[Combat Cookie]

Half of The Armed Forces Quitting

Totally agree with Keep It Tidy said. I am out this month with 14 years service, and although I may seem like a sprog compared to some others, most of the reason I decided to PVR seem to have been in what has been written. I have felt more and more disalussioned with the service, not because of the job or the guys I worked with, but because the people at the top that could make a noise at the top about the way we get treated either choose not to, or wait till they are out and then decide to open thier mouths on TV in a Lecture/ Sunday morning programme or shock horror an autobiography. I just wish that people who could make a difference ie Gordan Brown and Co and the MOD would wake up and see that they need to value what and who we are and look after us better in every aspect of service lives. Im sure the MOD's announcement that they are paying out 3 million pounds compensation to certain foreign individuals will be of great comfort to those individuals and thier families who have been injured or have paid a higher price! Well it will bolster the PVR line in PSF at any rate.

[Combat Cookie]

Sorry about that , I thought that people reading this would be more interested in the meat of the text rather than picking up things in my comments that are not 100% perfect. Im sure that the majority are intelligent enough to know what I meant.

[Combat Cookie]

No im not.The only time I can navigate is when ive got a voice telling me which way on the sat nav! My line of work trust me you need a sense of humour.The name may give you a clue. Is pooh that PVR /Terminate Service rates are as high as they are but that just seems to be the way it is, and unfortunately I dont think it will get any better. I have seen some really good guys in my trade get passed over for promotion and some real choppers get thier tapes, which Im sure happens in all trades, and its a shame that this happens but I dont see it changing. And I dont think that the uncertainty of getting a job/ house on the outside will prevent people taking that final step, maybe delay them but in the long run I think that the outcome will be the same.

[KeepItTidy]

Well I like them words Combat Cookie and Im on same level pal , I love the service , all my time in up to the last few years its just gone really downhill, why what how there are many reasons we have all gone into , what now , how can it be reversed. That is the only question now are there enough commited troops within the service now to help make a change , Im sure there is many out there that can make sweeping changes but unless give comes from the Officers the air force at least will get run by people who really have no idea whats its like to be at the bottom, this is the biggest hurdle, how does a new officer understand what its like to be an LAC,he doesnt , he just ignores. Root of the problem solved , all LACs should be made to officer

**** it im fed up trying to help

[KeepItTidy]

Erm I should stay of the beer :/

Beadwindow

.................................... KIT exits stage left