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RAAF Flight Screening Programme

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RAAF Flight Screening Programme

Old 13th Mar 2018, 09:10
  #3481 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 41
So they have actually created two distinct sets of testing for both officer aviation pathways? I would imagine there absolutely would be a large degree of overlap in requirements for both roles.

From the research I've done on the RAF testing (which I believe is what we've adapted/licensed), their tests are split into aptitude domains of:

verbal reasoning, numerical reasoning, spatial reasoning, work rate, attentional capability and psychomotor coordination. They test all 6 domains and then perform what they've defined to be an optimal weighting of each to give you your pilot/aco/jbac etc. score.

The only possible non-crossover domain for JBAC/ACO would be pyschomotor coordination (which isn't even the highest weighted domain for pilot in the RAF).

But I guess this is all needless speculation and I'll find out what's what in about a week. In my view it would be entirely pointless to perform worse on the mission elementary testing in some hope that it will put you in higher contention for a pilot OSB.
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Old 13th Mar 2018, 10:02
  #3482 (permalink)  
 
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Tayra, you are correct in most of what you have said except there are 7 aptitude domains for the pilot test and 6 for mission elementary - I am betting you can guess which domain is not tested for the latter (in fact, you already have).

While both Pilot and Mission Elementary might test for "spatial reasoning", for instance, the actual "spatial reasoning" tests will be different for each ASP test - if that makes sense.

Like I said earlier, to my understanding, the Pilot test has about an 80% fail rate of a pool of pretty intelligent and successful people. For these people who fail the Pilot test, or rank low on this test, they will still have an opportunity to sit a Mission Elementary OSB ON THE PROVISION THEY ACTUALLY PUT IN THE EFFORT FOR THE MISSION ELEMENTARY TEST!

Further to this, I am getting a little tired of the candidates who claim they will ONLY accept a pilot role - or worse, will only accept a fast-jet role in the RAAF.

If a candidate will ONLY accept a pilot role, I'd argue that the candidate should simply cancel their ADF application and pursue a career in civilian aviation. I, for one, would happily accept a non-aviation role, even a non-aviation & non-officer role, if I was unsuccessful with my chosen preferences.

You need to actually have the desire to be in the Defence Force in the first place.

Last edited by hansfalkenhagen; 13th Mar 2018 at 11:37.
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Old 13th Mar 2018, 10:48
  #3483 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Originally Posted by hansfalkenhagen View Post

Further to this, I am getting a little tired of the candidates who claim they will ONLY accept a pilot role - or worse, will only accept a fast-jet role in the RAAF.

If a candidate will ONLY accept a pilot role, I'd argue that the candidate should simply cancel their ADF application and pursue a career in civilian aviation. I, for one, would happily accept a non-aviation role, even a non-aviation & non-officer role, if I was unsuccessful with my chosen preferences.

You need to actually have the desire to be in the Defence Force in the first place.
There's nothing wrong with people knowing what they want. The RAAF will take as much (if not more) out of you than it will ever give you in return. No point playing the game if it isn't worth the prize at the end in your personal desires.

I wouldn't have joined the RAAF as anything other than a pilot. That doesn't make me a bad officer, if that was the case there'd be a lot less pilots...
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Old 13th Mar 2018, 13:19
  #3484 (permalink)  
 
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Hans the world is not a fair place. The RAAF has been hiring pilots for a long time. They know what you need to pass the course, and what you need to have a successful career.
Someone totally focused of being a RAAF Pilot with no interest in being a NAV etc, is not a lesser candidate to someone who wants so badly to be in the military they would take any job.
You either pass the selection or you don't. If you don't, it's a personal choice what you choose to do next.
But I agree with you about someone thinking doing badly in the non pilot tests is somehow going to help their application. They would seem to have some gaps in critical reasoning, and perhaps a different career choice would better suit.
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Old 13th Mar 2018, 21:17
  #3485 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Originally Posted by hansfalkenhagen View Post
I am not exactly sure what you mean by this. Are you asking if there is even any point trying for Mission Elementary testing if you are only applying for Pilot?
Thanks hans, youíve answered the question in your response. The question wasnít about effort in any particular test but rather being caught off guard in a conversation about other roles and having little knowledge about them. For whatís it worth, these recent contributions have prompted me to at least gain an overview of these roles before ASP.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 00:36
  #3486 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hansfalkenhagen View Post
being an ACO in a P8 is still are far better career than any civilian role I can think of.
Wow, you sure know a lot about aviation, military and civilian, for someone who's just starting out...

I'd rather sit up the front of any aircraft as a pilot, any day, than sit down the back of anything (super hornet included).
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 00:48
  #3487 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Slezy9 View Post
Wow, you sure know a lot about aviation, military and civilian, for someone who's just starting out...

I'd rather sit up the front of any aircraft as a pilot, any day, than sit down the back of anything (super hornet included).

You got that right.


I like being a pilot, if it didn't work out here I'd be giving it a crack somewhere else. You should go have a chat to any ACO's working in the civilian sector of aviation post leaving the RAAF and their employability... there's a lot more to think of when joining Defence than just being keen to do everything. It doesn't make anyone less of a candidate when they know what they want to do and what they're not interested in.


Just as an offside remark as well, there's no such thing as applying yourself for only a "fighter pilot" role, by the time you find out if you're going fighters or not it's too late to just disappear into the ether if you find out you're going multi crew. Thatís not how pilots course works.

Where is the civilian equivalent of fast jet aircrew? I guarantee there are lot more ex Fast Jet Pilots working at the mainlines right now than there are ACOís.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 01:28
  #3488 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
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Slezy9 and Junior.VH-LFA

I agree with what you have both said and will take it on board. But consider where my frustration on this topic has come from. I have just completed the ASP program with candidates who rocked up to a RAAF base in shorts, t-shirt and thongs. Candidates who needed to be told several times that they would not be allowed to enter the officer's mess for dinner in the clothes they were wearing. Candidates who were happy to ruin other people's positive experience because they failed the ASP. Candidates who said they wanted a RAAF pilot job yet did not want to go on deployment...

Funnily enough these were the same candidates who would often say they would accept nothing short of RAAF fast-jet pilot.

The key point I am trying to make in all of this, which it seems I have failed to achieve thus far, is for candidates to still try their best for the entire program and not waste the ADF's time. We all know it is highly like that the majority of 3000 applicants who apply per year will not be given a job offer for pilot. So why not increase your chances to accept a role for Mission Elementary or helicopters if you don't make the cut for RAAF pilot?

I for one am very happy to have a non-aviation military career but am certainly not "keen to do anything". I will just have to recognise that the 95% of candidates who fail the recruitment phase are not.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 05:43
  #3489 (permalink)  
 
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Haha, I got my first job out of high school for being the only one at a group interview not wearing thongs and boardies.

I don't think it's unreasonable for people going through these first ASPs to only want the job they've applied for. I want to be a pilot and an Officer in the RAAF... at the same time. It's going to be different for everyone. If it actually becomes the case that you don't know which job pathway you're on till after OTS then yeah, it seems very likely that some people will jump ship during their IMPS grace period if they dont get what they want. So as it stands, those self-selecting themselves out of contention is good thing. As for the people being bitter after failing, this is likely the first major 'NO' that some of them have received in their lives. Especially because it's almost a personal attack of 'no you as a person do not have the aptitude to do this job'. Whether or not they bounce back and learn from it before having another crack is the main concern.

After some more cyber sleuthing I found those 7 domains that you mentioned. Looks like they've introduced some new names for them whilst the tests remain the same. Hope you did well on the CLAN test if it was covered. It's the most significant (statistical) indicator of IFR performance apparently.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 21:51
  #3490 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Melbourne
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Thanks to all the contributors, the info has definitely made me more confident.

During the ASP test, I am guessing they don't give you any feedback for individual answers? Like a green tick.
And I couldn't find anything about it online, but is it true that there is a verbal reasoning test in the ASP?
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 03:58
  #3491 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Thunder2 View Post
During the ASP test, I am guessing they don't give you any feedback for individual answers? Like a green tick.
And I couldn't find anything about it online, but is it true that there is a verbal reasoning test in the ASP?
Hey thunder, you guess right. Practice questions will give you a green tick, but the testing questions wonít. The only feedback you get is at the end of course, which is still just a general overview.

There is a bit of verbal reasoning, but itís not especially difficult.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 15:19
  #3492 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
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@hansfalkenhagen - congratulations on the recommendation. You seem very motivated and keen to do well, which will stand you in good stead in your future training.

To all others reading his advice, take it with a grain of salt.

Many years ago I received a phone call to congratulate me on being offered the role of Navigator. I declined, and 3 days later received the offer of Pilot, a decision which I cannot thank my 17 year old self enough for.
DFR and the RAAF will try and get you in for whatever role they can, knowing there is a trickle down to other specialisations from those that initially applied for Pilot.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with knowing what you want. There are many great careers in the RAAF, however being 'in the RAAF' is not the be all and end all, and it is 100% OK to say you only want to be a Pilot.

Also, '3000 pilot applicants a year' is drastically overstated. We are chronically short and can't get enough good people in the door, let alone out the end of the training pipeline.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 00:51
  #3493 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rosco22 View Post
Also, '3000 pilot applicants a year' is drastically overstated. We are chronically short and can't get enough good people in the door, let alone out the end of the training pipeline.
In the late 90's/early 2000's there were approx 10,000 applications for pilot across all three services per year. There has been a steady decline in interest over the last 15 years or so. In 2016 there were 400 people who walked through the door and said I want to be a military pilot.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 13:34
  #3494 (permalink)  
 
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Because people of the current generation arenít stupid enough to sign on to something for 11.5 years with so many variables when they can just get a HECS loan and do a Cadetship...

The RAAF will figure that out, eventually.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 21:24
  #3495 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Is the IMPS really the defining factor? If you read these forums for any amount of time it doesn't seem like anyone is painting Civil aviation in the best light either.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 22:19
  #3496 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
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To any pilots currently at East Sale, do you know when we will be receiving the rest of the PC21's (the other 43 I believe)?

Will they even put groups through BTFS at the moment or will they be waiting 'till next year?
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 12:22
  #3497 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tayra View Post
Is the IMPS really the defining factor? If you read these forums for any amount of time it doesn't seem like anyone is painting Civil aviation in the best light either.
Times are and have been changing for a while.

I like the RAAF, Iím not dumb enough to think itís the best wicket in the world though. The exodus underway is enough to demonstrate that.

But Iíll never regret it, hell, I love the actual flying more than I could ever explain.
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 23:27
  #3498 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA View Post
But Iíll never regret it, hell, I love the actual flying more than I could ever explain.
My thoughts exactly!

But... I believe it's a young mans game, unless you want to be CAF.
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Old 21st Mar 2018, 11:04
  #3499 (permalink)  
 
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Have done both. Much preferred being with Ronny.
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 09:09
  #3500 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
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Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA View Post
I like the RAAF, Iím not dumb enough to think itís the best wicket in the world though.
C'mon mate. You're a pilot in the RAAF. You have the best wicket in the world.

Most people could only dream of what you do for a living.

If you don't mind me asking, what aircraft are you assigned to?
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