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RAAF Flight Screening Programme

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RAAF Flight Screening Programme

Old 25th Mar 2018, 01:31
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Long time reader first time poster
My application has been going on for three years now due to some medical issues (had a knee recon took a year to get cleared). I have sat two assessment days and passed both with flying colours. My last one was November 2017. I received a call two weeks ago from ASP to attend the next available session as someone had dropped it. (Last week of March) Unfortunately i had to say no as i was on holidays in Melbourne at the time. (shame it was so close to East Sale) However i was advised the next ASP was in May and should expect a call in April. All the information on this forum has been so beneficial in getting me into the position i am today. So fingers crossed i get the call for the next ASP.
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Old 27th Mar 2018, 01:22
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Originally Posted by tayra
Haha, I got my first job out of high school for being the only one at a group interview not wearing thongs and boardies.

I don't think it's unreasonable for people going through these first ASPs to only want the job they've applied for. I want to be a pilot and an Officer in the RAAF... at the same time. It's going to be different for everyone. If it actually becomes the case that you don't know which job pathway you're on till after OTS then yeah, it seems very likely that some people will jump ship during their IMPS grace period if they dont get what they want. So as it stands, those self-selecting themselves out of contention is good thing. As for the people being bitter after failing, this is likely the first major 'NO' that some of them have received in their lives. Especially because it's almost a personal attack of 'no you as a person do not have the aptitude to do this job'. Whether or not they bounce back and learn from it before having another crack is the main concern.

After some more cyber sleuthing I found those 7 domains that you mentioned. Looks like they've introduced some new names for them whilst the tests remain the same. Hope you did well on the CLAN test if it was covered. It's the most significant (statistical) indicator of IFR performance apparently.

My ASP is coming up in 2 weeks time. Any tips on where to find those 7 domains for ASP practice
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 08:24
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In the RAF thread on this very forum!
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 08:45
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Hey All,

Im wondering if anyone has been given any indication of how long we will wait for an officer selection board now that weíve progressed through the ASP? Also, how much notice do you usually get?

Iíve heard the next intakes for initial officer training for RAAF are July and August and then not until next year.

Itís hard to organise your life when youíre stuck in this waiting game.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 11:09
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Hey Hans,

Thatís amazing news - congrats! I passed both pilot and mission at the ASP, but have only received an offer of progression for ACO at this point. Just deciding whether to wait the 12 months and retest or progress with this offer.

I suppose it canít hurt to keep moving with this offer. If it ends up dragging out till next Jan anyway, I can always change my mind and resit ASP.

Just wondering how much notice they usually give you before officer selection boards. Not sure how frantically I should be studying up and visiting bases etc
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Old 30th Mar 2018, 15:35
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Originally Posted by hansfalkenhagen
I get what your saying, but the civilian alternative isn't much better: 6 figure student debt then off to the outback to do tourist flights on 30k a year is the reality for most.

It's that or you have loaded parents who pay the $150,000 to secure you an airlines cadetship.

If I ever make it as a pilot in the ADF I am sure I will have my gripes, but serving your country has gotta be better than serving Qantas.
Pilots in general like most humans are a fickle bunch. I doubt many RAAF pilots would change joining if they had a time machine. But there comes a time for most where they either want out or get out. The grass is always greener after all.

The money is good depending on if you are on new or old pay scheme. But the locational instability and the effect that has on relationships outside of defence is likely the reason most get out.
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Old 3rd Apr 2018, 09:17
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Hey Hans, great info on ASP and thanks. Do you think this website will be helpful for the exams? https ://pilotaptitudetest. com/knowledgebase/royal-air-force/ (remove the space between . and com and s and this is based off the RAF testing which is what I presume we have switched to going off what everyone is saying and a little bit of evidence in their joining instructions.

Not sure how accurate this is but seems like it matches with how many tests there are, 20 for ASP and about 19 on the website. Also Tarya/Hans , what order do you think the 7 domains go for the pilot tests and the 6 for mission elementary?
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Old 3rd Apr 2018, 09:43
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Hans, great insight, I found a website which trains for RAF testing, it's called Pilot Aptitude tests and it has a data base of various defences forces and air lines, which also includes the tests for RAF and RAAF. It also matches with how many tests there will be on the day, which is about 20, and in the RAF data base, there are 19. Also Tarya/Hans, in what order do you think they prioritise the 7 domains for pilot and 6 domains for mission elementary?
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Old 3rd Apr 2018, 12:28
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If you are referring to https://pilotaptitudetest.com/ then save your money it wont help you (my opinion). There is another similarly named website (pilot aptitude systems) which I believe is a well known scam. If it costs hundreds to thousands of dollars it's not worth it.

If the ADF are using the same weightings as the RAF (highly likely) then each of the 7 domains has a roughly equal weighting (11-16% of total score) for pilot whereas ATC/ACO is skewed heavily towards "strategic task management". Each domain has a specific stanine cutoff from the 2nd-5th stanine which in statistical terms essentially ranges from below average to average. One could assume the ADF gets a slightly right-shifted distribution of individuals compared to the general population so below average may not appear as so. If you fail to meet the cutoff in any domain you do not pass for that role regardless of overall score.

The testing feels very much like an "either you have it or you don't" situation. As far as preparation goes, I could only confidently say that mental maths practice had a definite positive effect on my score. That and 20+ years of solid video games is likely your best bet for success. So go do your timetables and play some PUBG.
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Old 3rd Apr 2018, 13:15
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Originally Posted by tayra
If you are referring to pilot then save your money it wont help you (my opinion). There is another similarly named website (pilot aptitude systems) which I believe is a well known scam. If it costs hundreds to thousands of dollars it's not worth it.

If the ADF are using the same weightings as the RAF (highly likely) then each of the 7 domains has a roughly equal weighting (11-16% of total score) for pilot whereas ATC/ACO is skewed heavily towards "strategic task management". Each domain has a specific stanine cutoff from the 2nd-5th stanine which in statistical terms essentially ranges from below average to average. One could assume the ADF gets a slightly right-shifted distribution of individuals compared to the general population so below average may not appear as so. If you fail to meet the cutoff in any domain you do not pass for that role regardless of overall score.

The testing feels very much like an "either you have it or you don't" situation. As far as preparation goes, I could only confidently say that mental maths practice had a definite positive effect on my score. That and 20+ years of solid video games is likely your best bet for success. So go do your timetables and play some PUBG.
Haha, great insight, I presume you have done the exams. From what I have gathered, there's no point trying to slack in any of the domains (not that I was planning to), my mental math is alright, could be better, gaming I've done since I was a child, was almost a professional in one at one stage. I think my hand eye coordination is ok, and my multi tasking maybe ok because in the game, I had to make fast paced decisions, communicate with my team and play well on the sticks. But I can't become over confident.

Also if you don't mind me asking, how many candidates passed in your session? was trying to calculate how many would be in an OSB pool before my session And was the short term memory stuff difficult? I struggle sometimes with that but I've seen significant improvement in my scores the last few days since I've been practising hard. Cheers.
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 00:21
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Originally Posted by quantify
Also if you don't mind me asking, how many candidates passed in your session? was trying to calculate how many would be in an OSB pool before my session
Are you going for DEO or ADFA?

My group had 5 passes for pilot, 2 competitive. The group after had 4 passes for pilot with none competitive. Those pass rates were apparently quite high compared to prior groups.
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 02:50
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Question New RAAF Aviation Selection Program 2018 (PC-21)

Hi all,

My intention here is not to be spoon feed information on the new ASP for Officer candidates (starting early 2018), rather I wish to know if anyone has come across any helpful sites/links in regards to any of the following domains:
  • Perceptual processing
  • Short-term memory and capacity
  • Spatial reasoning
  • Symbolic reasoning
  • Central information processing
Any other helpful links for other domains for the new ADF Officer ASP would be GREATLY appreciated!

Cheers guys.
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 03:03
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Thanks again Hans, will look into other roles if they interest me.

Tayra I am applying for ADFA, that seems very tough. By group do you mean the group of 12 in the same ASP or do you mean another ASP. My guess is in the same ASP. If ASP started in March and we assume they have had 1 asp per week until now, that would be about 5 ASPs, from 40 candidates around 8 pass on average (that's what I got told from someone else that has done the ASP) and say about 4 deemed competitive. That would be 20 candidates in the OSB pool as of now (give or take, no idea how accurate these estimates are, if anyone can find out the ASP schedule that would be great, on the RAAF website it says it was supposed to be up late 2017 but there's nothing there. Or if you have a better idea of how many actually progress to OSB). Also selection for ASP after your assessment day is not based of a pool like FSP was correct? If you passed assessment day, you were invited. Although if you weren't invited to flight screening (if they didn't deem your profile competitive) then even if you get a good score on ASP, your chances may still be low to get selected for OSB. But hey, at least they give you chance now.
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 03:51
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Originally Posted by Hunter16
Hi all,

My intention here is not to be spoon feed information on the new ASP for Officer candidates (starting early 2018), rather I wish to know if anyone has come across any helpful sites/links in regards to any of the following domains:
  • Perceptual processing
  • Short-term memory and capacity
  • Spatial reasoning
  • Symbolic reasoning
  • Central information processing
Any other helpful links for other domains for the new ADF Officer ASP would be GREATLY appreciated!

Cheers guys.
The briefest of searches would have sent you here...

https://www.pprune.org/military-avia...l#post10106576

Last edited by Slezy9; 4th Apr 2018 at 03:52. Reason: Link
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 04:07
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Each ASP course had 10 candidates on it. The testing room can seat up to 12. Numbers are probably limited by accommodation, chaperone staff availability etc.

As of the end of March around 120-130 candidates had been screened. Seems about 1 in 20 are getting a competitive score for pilot. That rate may go up as BFTS (soon to be 1FTS again) can accommodate more students and thus the competitive score goes down to increase supply.

A competitive score for ADFA pilot may well be lower because you won't be entering the training pipeline for several years.

I think you are right in that any candidates who pass all the requirements up to and including their assessment day will most likely get an ASP slot. It may well still be merit based but the time you'll wait will be much shorter than the wait for flight screening was.

Last edited by tayra; 4th Apr 2018 at 09:03.
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 04:58
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Originally Posted by tayra
Each ASP course had 10 candidates on it. The testing room can seat up to 12. Numbers are probably limited by accommodation, chaperone staff availability etc.

As of the end of March around 120-130 candidates had been screened. Seems about 1 in 20 are getting a competitive score for pilot. That rate may go up as BFTS (soon to be 1FTS again) can accommodate more students and thus the competitive score goes down to increase supply.

A competitive score for ADFA pilot may well be lower because you won't be entering the training pipeline for several years.

I think you are right in that any candidates who pass all the requirements up to and including their assessment day will most likely get an ASP slot. It may well still be merit based but the time you'll wait will be much shorter than the wait for flight screening was.

I have not heard of anyone being paneled for an OSB yet, pilot or aco/atc.
Ah ok, that makes sense, considering I won't be applying for direct entry, I hope there is a lower score lol, seems sort of unfair for the DE people but supply and demand, ah well, no point complaining. Also could you gauge how many people from your ASP (and past ones) applied for direct entry vs ADFA? Will that even matter? I should probably just worry about myself instead of trying to count my chances haha. Does anyone know how many ADFA pilot OSB's they hold per year? Guessing it'll change drastically since ASP has just rolled out.
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 06:16
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Hey guys, I'm hoping some of you guys may be able to help me out seeing as recruitment have given me nothing.

So I was given an 'advanced offer' back in December, their way of saying "your offer isn't ready yet but we want you to know you don't have to redo ASP". They slapped on a date of 18th May and that was it. It's now April and I've received no information as to what that date is for, when to attend a PFA session or any answers to any questions for that matter.

Does anyone have any insight into the wording of my offer being "effective from 18th May"? Is that the date I leave, the date I start OTS, etc.? I've asked my case manager but she knows nothing. Another thing no one seems to be able to tell me is what happens to my stuff (i.e. furniture, belongings, car) when I leave? I'm assuming they store it but is what happens in between my responsibility or theirs?

Also, has anyone had any experience in carting their own PC builds on to base or ditched it for a laptop/tablet? I realise it sounds like a dumb question but I don't want to do anything unneccessary if I don't have to.

Has anyone been able to squeeze out of a lease early due to Defence service?

I'd appreciate any answers or insight, thanks guys
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 11:59
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@hans That's great if the ADFA and DEO ASP is separate (hopefully that means lower score since there are more Pilot slots in ADFA especially at the start of the year), my chances aren't looking bad and I'm on ASP coming up quite soon so looks like I'll be one of the first few. Also, is there any tests which involve pen and paper (like additional testing / you session exams)? Or is it all mental arithmetic?
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Old 6th Apr 2018, 10:33
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Originally Posted by hansfalkenhagen
I can't really comment on that.

Like I've said many times before, the best thing you can do is practice any old aptitude test in general. Get used to reading and answering questions quickly and accurately.

"Preparing" yourself for the ASP will probably only get you a 5-10% increase in your results (besides good rest and nutrition). You can't really increase your cognitive ability or increase your IQ; it is what it is.

For most, there's bigger issues than your ASP grades. Recently I was reading a thesis on the Canadian military's pilot selection. It suggested that your psych evaluation will have just as heavy bearing on your chances of pilot selection as the ASP will. For example, those with higher levels of "consciousness" and lower levels of "extraversion" and "neuroticism" are looked upon much more favourably than those whose levels were reversed for these particular functions. Even for officer candidates in general, your second and third function for personality typing should be "intuited" and "thinking", with the first and fourth function having no bearing. This is the Five Factor Model and research started by Carl Jung, if anyone's not familiar with it).

While this is just speculation, I still think that this is perhaps why some candidates who scored higher than I did were not offered OSBs. The ADF know what they are looking for. There's not a lot you can do to change your traits, cognitive ability, personality functions, etc.

I'd just go along and try to enjoy the experience, and good luck!
Absolutely amazing stuff, can't believe you weren't recommended. This is very interesting, seems there's more to this than meets the eye. In the thesis, was there any mention of how these traits were determined and how old is this thesis? Are they based off some ASP results or your initial psych evaluation from assessment day
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Old 7th Apr 2018, 01:30
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Originally Posted by hansfalkenhagen
They have enough data to know exactly what type of candidate will pass pilot's training and thus not waste the ADF's time and the tax payer's dollar.
If that's the case, how come so many people fail pilots course then?? Failure rates traditionally hover around the 30-40% level. Sometimes less, sometimes more.

My course started with 24 and finished with 9.
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