Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
Petet:-
I am coincidently reading "Carrier Pilot" by Norman Hanson (ISBN 0 7088 1951 6) in which he attends the aircrew training scheme in Florida devised by Admiral Towers USN. Interestingly it took RN/RAF entrants in the ratio 30/100 per month, the RAF element learning seaplane and flying boat operation.
USN stations involved (for FAA pilot training) were Pensacola (Chevalier, Curry, Saufley, and Ellyson fields) and Opa Locka. The a/c (USN designations) were; N3N-3, O3U-1, OS2U-3, SNJ-3 (Harvard), F-2A (Buffalo). His time on course 8 months (1941/42).
He seems to have enjoyed the rather frenetic experiences vis a vis the local population. Caught returning from Key West (a restricted area anyway), having done up to 100 mph in a rented Oldsmobile on the Florida Keys Highway (speed limit 25mph!), the RNVR gold braid on their uniforms got he and his friend off the rap by "Joe" and "Charlie", with the advice to mention their names to "Harry" and "Duke" if the same thing happened leaving Key Largo! With the parting advice to "Go get them Krauts" they proceeded on their lawful occasions...
Towers: 1784
USN stations involved (for FAA pilot training) were Pensacola (Chevalier, Curry, Saufley, and Ellyson fields) and Opa Locka. The a/c (USN designations) were; N3N-3, O3U-1, OS2U-3, SNJ-3 (Harvard), F-2A (Buffalo). His time on course 8 months (1941/42).
He seems to have enjoyed the rather frenetic experiences vis a vis the local population. Caught returning from Key West (a restricted area anyway), having done up to 100 mph in a rented Oldsmobile on the Florida Keys Highway (speed limit 25mph!), the RNVR gold braid on their uniforms got he and his friend off the rap by "Joe" and "Charlie", with the advice to mention their names to "Harry" and "Duke" if the same thing happened leaving Key Largo! With the parting advice to "Go get them Krauts" they proceeded on their lawful occasions...
Last edited by Chugalug2; 16th Sep 2015 at 10:40. Reason: Added F-2A
RAF element learning seaplane and flying boat operation.
He may have been intended to go on boats but he went to met. recon. Halifaxs in Coastal Command.
Added My father's first flying log book was made up by a US Navy Rating; as was the fashion in the US Navy
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 16th Sep 2015 at 20:27.
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Chugalug (your #7400),
During our time at Carlstrom, we had very little knowledge of what was going on in other parts of the US. As I remember, we may have heard a bit about the BFTS (which had been set up at the same time as the Arnold Scheme), but it was only after I got back that I heard about "Towers", and even now Wiki knows far about that Scheme than ever I did.
Of course, we were divided by the breadth of Florida, they were over on the East Coast, we on the West. And we were thinking of little more than surviving to get as far as Basic School (for we'd heard [which was true] that if you got past Primary you were pretty well sure of your "wings").
Off we went into the Wide Blue Yonder (but long, long ago !)
Danny.
During our time at Carlstrom, we had very little knowledge of what was going on in other parts of the US. As I remember, we may have heard a bit about the BFTS (which had been set up at the same time as the Arnold Scheme), but it was only after I got back that I heard about "Towers", and even now Wiki knows far about that Scheme than ever I did.
Of course, we were divided by the breadth of Florida, they were over on the East Coast, we on the West. And we were thinking of little more than surviving to get as far as Basic School (for we'd heard [which was true] that if you got past Primary you were pretty well sure of your "wings").
Off we went into the Wide Blue Yonder (but long, long ago !)
Danny.
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Pete (your #7399),
"I have total output figures of:
Refresher: 598
Arnold: 4370
Towers: 1784
BFTS: 6921
The document adds that 558 American Cadets were trained at BFTS (1943/1944) and that 2081 Fleet Air Arm pilots were also trained under Towers".
The BFTS opened from 9 June'41 [BBC WWII - The People's War] and closed in November'44 (41 months). The Arnold Scheme (intakes) ran from 7 June'41 to May'43 (22 months). From this it appears that both Schemes were turning out pilots at roughly the same rate: just under 200/mth (if you include the US Cadets trained at BFTS). The Towers Scheme must have been of vital assistance to the Royal Navy.
If you total Arnold and BFTS, you get over 11,000 pilots trained for the RAF. Guessing that, of the 55,000 deaths (plus 10,000 POWs) suffered by Bomber Command, something like a seventh (9,000) would be pilots: it illustrates what an enormous gift had been given to us by Roosevelt and General Arnold. And it should be remembered that this was all planned and put into effect six months before Pearl Harbor, when the US was officially a "neutral".
Now coming to the final chapter of your researches (your #7395), I can only add:
"Wastage Rate"
The fact that their US Flight Cadets were "scrubbed" at more or less the same rate as ours, gives support (as I have said to Chugalug in my #7397) to my suspicion that this was in fact a deliberately planned rate.
"Course Dates"
I've come to the conclusion that we shall never be able to pin this down after so long (your query #7381 refers). And again, Chugalug in his #7380 (in another context) says: "Might I tentatively suggest that there will be no clear answer for you, and theory and speculation will have to prevail".
Now, I finished my six months Course (with 42C) at the end of February'42 (wings day 6 March'42). I would assume 42H would come in at the beginning of March'42 (6 Courses after me, but after I finished).
ValMORNA (his #7388 about his uncle) tells us: "His flying commenced in the USA on Feb 28th 1942, Course 42H, at Carlstrom. From May 1942 he was at Gunter Field then Turner Field until 30th August. Wings ceremony was on 6th September 1942". (exactly six months to the day after mine).
Bingo ! All we have to do is to assume that the Arnold Courses came in at the beginning of successive months, and we can't be too far wrong.
"Course Intakes"
Yes, something like that, I suppose - but they'd have to expand the ITW output in UK to match, wouldn't they - or open new one(s) - or re-route LACs destined for Canada or elsewhere ? (Let's not go there).
"Acclimatisation Problems"
I would say that it wasn't the Mess chow that produced the airsickness: more probably a surfeit of Coke (5c) and Hershey Bars (we had just come from a chokkie-rationed Britain !) And in most cases it cleared up in a day or so.
"Acclimatisation Course"
Your #7395:
"The acclimatisation course started with No 5 Course on 4th October 1941
(Replacement Centre, Maxwell Field ......" (Montgomery, Ala.) Why not Gunter (also at Montgomery, where they could weep on our shoulders, and learn form us ?) No room at Gunter ? (See my #7397).
"......Pupils were also given experience in driving motor cars to make up for their short comings in mechanical knowledge......"
(we've covered this already - my #7391).
"........They were subjected to the strictest form of American discipline based on that of the military academy at West Point, and although it had its merits, it was found most irksome by the RAF trainees".
Poor boys ! (The heart bleeds). I suppose many of us trainees found RAF discipline "most irksome" too. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. If they want you to learn US foot (and, later Arms drill), then learn it. It is no more difficult to march to "Hup, two, three, four" than to "Left, left, left-right-left".
"To the rear, March" will turn you round just as well as "About Turn". Brought up, as we were, on a diet of Hollywood films, we had little difficulty in understanding our instructors - we were quite fluent in "American".
"Help to alleviate initial problems"
Already covered.
I am beginning to think that all this is ex post-facto rationilisation: the "washout" policy had already been decided (for both US and British cadets), all they needed was this smokescreen. Could be wrong.
That about wraps it up, I would suggest.
Danny.
EDIT: Your "...ham" has been niggling me, but all I can come up with is GOTHAM - and that doesn't take us far. We must throw this open to our transatlantic cousins: Wanted, a six-letter US town (or WWII airfield ?), of which the last three are "HAM", and which has some connection to the Arnold or BFTS Schemes ?
D.
"I have total output figures of:
Refresher: 598
Arnold: 4370
Towers: 1784
BFTS: 6921
The document adds that 558 American Cadets were trained at BFTS (1943/1944) and that 2081 Fleet Air Arm pilots were also trained under Towers".
The BFTS opened from 9 June'41 [BBC WWII - The People's War] and closed in November'44 (41 months). The Arnold Scheme (intakes) ran from 7 June'41 to May'43 (22 months). From this it appears that both Schemes were turning out pilots at roughly the same rate: just under 200/mth (if you include the US Cadets trained at BFTS). The Towers Scheme must have been of vital assistance to the Royal Navy.
If you total Arnold and BFTS, you get over 11,000 pilots trained for the RAF. Guessing that, of the 55,000 deaths (plus 10,000 POWs) suffered by Bomber Command, something like a seventh (9,000) would be pilots: it illustrates what an enormous gift had been given to us by Roosevelt and General Arnold. And it should be remembered that this was all planned and put into effect six months before Pearl Harbor, when the US was officially a "neutral".
Now coming to the final chapter of your researches (your #7395), I can only add:
"Wastage Rate"
The fact that their US Flight Cadets were "scrubbed" at more or less the same rate as ours, gives support (as I have said to Chugalug in my #7397) to my suspicion that this was in fact a deliberately planned rate.
"Course Dates"
I've come to the conclusion that we shall never be able to pin this down after so long (your query #7381 refers). And again, Chugalug in his #7380 (in another context) says: "Might I tentatively suggest that there will be no clear answer for you, and theory and speculation will have to prevail".
Now, I finished my six months Course (with 42C) at the end of February'42 (wings day 6 March'42). I would assume 42H would come in at the beginning of March'42 (6 Courses after me, but after I finished).
ValMORNA (his #7388 about his uncle) tells us: "His flying commenced in the USA on Feb 28th 1942, Course 42H, at Carlstrom. From May 1942 he was at Gunter Field then Turner Field until 30th August. Wings ceremony was on 6th September 1942". (exactly six months to the day after mine).
Bingo ! All we have to do is to assume that the Arnold Courses came in at the beginning of successive months, and we can't be too far wrong.
"Course Intakes"
Yes, something like that, I suppose - but they'd have to expand the ITW output in UK to match, wouldn't they - or open new one(s) - or re-route LACs destined for Canada or elsewhere ? (Let's not go there).
"Acclimatisation Problems"
I would say that it wasn't the Mess chow that produced the airsickness: more probably a surfeit of Coke (5c) and Hershey Bars (we had just come from a chokkie-rationed Britain !) And in most cases it cleared up in a day or so.
"Acclimatisation Course"
Your #7395:
"The acclimatisation course started with No 5 Course on 4th October 1941
(Replacement Centre, Maxwell Field ......" (Montgomery, Ala.) Why not Gunter (also at Montgomery, where they could weep on our shoulders, and learn form us ?) No room at Gunter ? (See my #7397).
"......Pupils were also given experience in driving motor cars to make up for their short comings in mechanical knowledge......"
(we've covered this already - my #7391).
"........They were subjected to the strictest form of American discipline based on that of the military academy at West Point, and although it had its merits, it was found most irksome by the RAF trainees".
Poor boys ! (The heart bleeds). I suppose many of us trainees found RAF discipline "most irksome" too. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. If they want you to learn US foot (and, later Arms drill), then learn it. It is no more difficult to march to "Hup, two, three, four" than to "Left, left, left-right-left".
"To the rear, March" will turn you round just as well as "About Turn". Brought up, as we were, on a diet of Hollywood films, we had little difficulty in understanding our instructors - we were quite fluent in "American".
"You're in the Army now!
You're not behind a plow"
You're not behind a plow"
"Help to alleviate initial problems"
Already covered.
I am beginning to think that all this is ex post-facto rationilisation: the "washout" policy had already been decided (for both US and British cadets), all they needed was this smokescreen. Could be wrong.
That about wraps it up, I would suggest.
Danny.
EDIT: Your "...ham" has been niggling me, but all I can come up with is GOTHAM - and that doesn't take us far. We must throw this open to our transatlantic cousins: Wanted, a six-letter US town (or WWII airfield ?), of which the last three are "HAM", and which has some connection to the Arnold or BFTS Schemes ?
D.
Last edited by Danny42C; 17th Sep 2015 at 08:51. Reason: Addn.
Danny:-
Indeed, but it was of three times more assistance (in aircrew) to the RAF, according to Hanson (see my 7400). I found that very surprising. Even if they didn't all finish up on 'boats, presumably they did all finish up in Coastal Command. So were all Coastal Command pilots trained thus, or only those trained in the USA, or only some of those trained in the USA?
Excellent post, Danny. I think that you have summed up brilliantly. Your take, as against the semi official summary of under-nourished, technically challenged, bolshie Brits, illustrates the massive advantage we have in getting our gen direct from the horse's mouth (if you'll excuse the term).
Chop/washout rates that reflect the required number of graduates rather than their competence are nothing new. They certainly happened in the RAF in my day, and I suspect still do.
The Towers Scheme must have been of vital assistance to the Royal Navy.
Excellent post, Danny. I think that you have summed up brilliantly. Your take, as against the semi official summary of under-nourished, technically challenged, bolshie Brits, illustrates the massive advantage we have in getting our gen direct from the horse's mouth (if you'll excuse the term).
Chop/washout rates that reflect the required number of graduates rather than their competence are nothing new. They certainly happened in the RAF in my day, and I suspect still do.
Last edited by Chugalug2; 17th Sep 2015 at 08:24.
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Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet in WW 11
I understand that those R.A.F. Pilots on the Towers Scheme trained at Pensacola on the Stearman, then the Vultee "Vibrator" and then the Catalina..from Pensacola they went to the General Reconnaissance course at Summerside (Nova Scotia?) and back to U.K. And Oban for Catalinas or Sunderlands. I stand to be corrected, but I met people who had entered Gods Own Command this way. Greetings all!
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Chugalug,
Great Minds think alike ! We can lay the Arnold Washouts to rest (but it was hard luck on the "victims" all the same).
This horse is getting "a bit long in the tooth", I'm afraid !
Pete,
Brilliant - so Dothan (in the Florida "panhandle"). The place is/was full of Navy and Air Corps Fields. (At "Advanced" we did a fortnight's air/ground gunnery with our AT-6s at Eglin Field. Didn't hit much). Presumably, Dothan was an RLG for one or more of them.
And now I come to think of it, the two RAF "experts" who were supposed to have come out to us in India to teach us how to dive-bomb had reputedly "done a Course" at Pensacola.
EDIT: Sounds like another Cola ! (we had CocaCola, PepsiCola ("Twice as much for a nickel, too") and the unhappily named Royal Crown Cola (abbreviate "Royal Crown", then say it quickly!) Pensa-Cola would just be another one.
You may recall that one speared in on his first demo (or so the story went). His mate lost all credibility; we learned to dive-bomb our way. (All this is hearsay, and absolutely not to be relied on).
Ormeside,
Good to hear from you ! (Good men are scarce - there aren't many of us left !). The "Vibrator" (Vultee B-13) handled in the air much as the Catalina handled on the water, I would think. Not my favourite aircraft !
Cheers to all, Danny.
Great Minds think alike ! We can lay the Arnold Washouts to rest (but it was hard luck on the "victims" all the same).
This horse is getting "a bit long in the tooth", I'm afraid !
Pete,
Brilliant - so Dothan (in the Florida "panhandle"). The place is/was full of Navy and Air Corps Fields. (At "Advanced" we did a fortnight's air/ground gunnery with our AT-6s at Eglin Field. Didn't hit much). Presumably, Dothan was an RLG for one or more of them.
And now I come to think of it, the two RAF "experts" who were supposed to have come out to us in India to teach us how to dive-bomb had reputedly "done a Course" at Pensacola.
EDIT: Sounds like another Cola ! (we had CocaCola, PepsiCola ("Twice as much for a nickel, too") and the unhappily named Royal Crown Cola (abbreviate "Royal Crown", then say it quickly!) Pensa-Cola would just be another one.
You may recall that one speared in on his first demo (or so the story went). His mate lost all credibility; we learned to dive-bomb our way. (All this is hearsay, and absolutely not to be relied on).
Ormeside,
Good to hear from you ! (Good men are scarce - there aren't many of us left !). The "Vibrator" (Vultee B-13) handled in the air much as the Catalina handled on the water, I would think. Not my favourite aircraft !
Cheers to all, Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 17th Sep 2015 at 10:51. Reason: Afterthought
Brilliant - so Dothan (in the Florida "panhandle"). - Danny
Doing some lateral thinking, I had just come up with
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dothan,_Alabama#Airport and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Field,_Alabama
only to find that Petet and Danny had beaten me to it - no change there then!
Jack
Doing some lateral thinking, I had just come up with
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dothan,_Alabama#Airport and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Field,_Alabama
only to find that Petet and Danny had beaten me to it - no change there then!
Jack
Danny:-
Just possible that they went on to Opa Locka to learn that bit, Danny. Wiki tells us that there:-
You'll recall that Hanson learnt to be a fighter pilot there on the Buffalo following training at Pensacola. Interestingly the field and the town were named by Glen Curtis, after he retired from making aircraft and became a property developer:-
I imagine that getting your teeth around that lot while climbing into a taxi after a night out had much to do with its foreshortening to Opa Locka!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami-...cutive_Airport
And now I come to think of it, the two RAF "experts" who were supposed to have come out to us in India to teach us how to dive-bomb had reputedly "done a Course" at Pensacola.
Training in fighter, dive-bombing and torpedo bombing skills took place at various times during the base's operation and aircraft used included the Brewster F2A Buffalo fighter, SBD Dauntless dive bomber, TBF Avenger torpedo bomber,
In 1926 he founded the City of Opa-locka, naming it Opa-tisha-woka-locka (quickly shortened to Opa-locka), a Native American name that translates into the high land north of the little river with a camping place.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami-...cutive_Airport
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Chugalug,
Your: ".... Opa-tisha-woka-locka (quickly shortened to Opa-locka), a Native American name that translates into the high land north of the little river with a camping place...." recalls the Welsh practice of compressing a whole sentence in to a single long placename. The best known of these is the Anglesey village of "Llanfair P.G.", which, I think, runs to 36 (?) letters. The Germans are good at long compound words, too.
What's in a name ? Quite a lot, as it happens. A classic case is that of one of our first contingents arriving in Canada, when they learned that they would be going on to a British Flying Training School for six months in "Miami". Bubbling with enthusiasm for the prospect of sun, sea, and starlets ahead, it was only when someone noticed that their train was heading West - not South! - that the truth dawned. They were bound for Miami all right, but for 3 BFTS at Miami, Oklahoma ! (that mid-west dust-bowl made famous in Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath"). Still, they met the welcome and generous hospitality there that was enjoyed by all our BFTS cadets. Their schools were all in or near towns, whereas many of the US Army Bases used in the "Arnold" Scheme were "right out in the sticks", making social contacts difficult. The fact that we were uprooted every two months, and moved on, didn't help, either.
Some stayed there permanently, in the Grand Army of the Republic cemetery a mile North of their former School:
AC2 Dennis M. Mitchell
AC2 Frederick D. Beverley
AC2 Cecil J. Riddell
AC2 William G.M. Mann
LAC James Boyd
AC2 Kenneth Raisbeck
LAC Walter E. Elliott
LAC William C. Speirs
LAC Ralph K. Price
LAC Donald A. Harfield
LAC Herbert H. Hacksley
LAC Harold A. Burman
LAC Alan Brown
LAC Peter McCallum
LAC Fred Tufft
["Tulsa Tour 2000
Copyright © 2000-2002, Scott D. Murdock"] (whom I trust will pardon this breach of his copyright).
The text states that all were "students", but I think that the first six would probably be "admin" (the BFTS were wholly RAF-administered). And all successful RAF candidates from ITW were promoted LAC at that time.
Your: "....and aircraft used included the Brewster F2A Buffalo fighter, SBD Dauntless dive bomber, TBF Avenger torpedo bomber...."
I would very much have liked to get my hands on a SBD "Dauntless", to see what difference in dive handling resulted from the (almost universal then) trailing edge dive brake idea. I still don't think the (much later) A-31 "Vengeance" system could be bettered, as our brakes were exactly over and under the CoG of the aircraft, causing no change of trim, whereas the Dauntless brakes must "pull" the nose down, exactly as normal flaps do.
Reading the (Wiki) Specifications, I'm rather puzzled. A smaller, lighter and much less powerful aircraft than our A-31 (only 1200hp against our 1600), it is credited with a bomb load of 2250lb against our 1500, and again a range of 1115 miles. At (say) 3mi/US gallon, this would imply 372 US gallons fuel load. We only had 220 - and could only get 400 miles comfortably with that ! The performance stated was much the same as ours. Seems the RAF and RN got a dozen for testing, it would be interesting to see what we thought of it.
Danny
Your: ".... Opa-tisha-woka-locka (quickly shortened to Opa-locka), a Native American name that translates into the high land north of the little river with a camping place...." recalls the Welsh practice of compressing a whole sentence in to a single long placename. The best known of these is the Anglesey village of "Llanfair P.G.", which, I think, runs to 36 (?) letters. The Germans are good at long compound words, too.
What's in a name ? Quite a lot, as it happens. A classic case is that of one of our first contingents arriving in Canada, when they learned that they would be going on to a British Flying Training School for six months in "Miami". Bubbling with enthusiasm for the prospect of sun, sea, and starlets ahead, it was only when someone noticed that their train was heading West - not South! - that the truth dawned. They were bound for Miami all right, but for 3 BFTS at Miami, Oklahoma ! (that mid-west dust-bowl made famous in Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath"). Still, they met the welcome and generous hospitality there that was enjoyed by all our BFTS cadets. Their schools were all in or near towns, whereas many of the US Army Bases used in the "Arnold" Scheme were "right out in the sticks", making social contacts difficult. The fact that we were uprooted every two months, and moved on, didn't help, either.
Some stayed there permanently, in the Grand Army of the Republic cemetery a mile North of their former School:
AC2 Dennis M. Mitchell
AC2 Frederick D. Beverley
AC2 Cecil J. Riddell
AC2 William G.M. Mann
LAC James Boyd
AC2 Kenneth Raisbeck
LAC Walter E. Elliott
LAC William C. Speirs
LAC Ralph K. Price
LAC Donald A. Harfield
LAC Herbert H. Hacksley
LAC Harold A. Burman
LAC Alan Brown
LAC Peter McCallum
LAC Fred Tufft
["Tulsa Tour 2000
Copyright © 2000-2002, Scott D. Murdock"] (whom I trust will pardon this breach of his copyright).
The text states that all were "students", but I think that the first six would probably be "admin" (the BFTS were wholly RAF-administered). And all successful RAF candidates from ITW were promoted LAC at that time.
Your: "....and aircraft used included the Brewster F2A Buffalo fighter, SBD Dauntless dive bomber, TBF Avenger torpedo bomber...."
I would very much have liked to get my hands on a SBD "Dauntless", to see what difference in dive handling resulted from the (almost universal then) trailing edge dive brake idea. I still don't think the (much later) A-31 "Vengeance" system could be bettered, as our brakes were exactly over and under the CoG of the aircraft, causing no change of trim, whereas the Dauntless brakes must "pull" the nose down, exactly as normal flaps do.
Reading the (Wiki) Specifications, I'm rather puzzled. A smaller, lighter and much less powerful aircraft than our A-31 (only 1200hp against our 1600), it is credited with a bomb load of 2250lb against our 1500, and again a range of 1115 miles. At (say) 3mi/US gallon, this would imply 372 US gallons fuel load. We only had 220 - and could only get 400 miles comfortably with that ! The performance stated was much the same as ours. Seems the RAF and RN got a dozen for testing, it would be interesting to see what we thought of it.
Danny
Danny,
Digressing slightly, something I have pondered since beginning to follow this thread, what sort of news were the trainees given of what was happening back home, during their time in training. I think I for one would get the impression that trainees were expected to forget "home" and get on with learning to fly. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I would have thought that regular news regarding the home front would be a spur to young men, training to become part of the defence of democracy back then. No doubt censored letters were one thing, but I'm wondering if any formal news was ever passed to "our lads" in the colonies. I know for sure that I would want to know what was happening back home.
Smudge
Digressing slightly, something I have pondered since beginning to follow this thread, what sort of news were the trainees given of what was happening back home, during their time in training. I think I for one would get the impression that trainees were expected to forget "home" and get on with learning to fly. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I would have thought that regular news regarding the home front would be a spur to young men, training to become part of the defence of democracy back then. No doubt censored letters were one thing, but I'm wondering if any formal news was ever passed to "our lads" in the colonies. I know for sure that I would want to know what was happening back home.
Smudge
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Smudge,
Strange, I have been thinking about that very thing myself lately. Partly because, as you say, we were for six months completely wrapped up in the 24/7 struggle to survive the Course. We had no newspapers; the only real time news that we could have been getting would be from local radio stations: (Arcadia ? - don't think so - Sarasota (possibly) Tampa or Miami (certainly). Of course, copies of "Life" and "Saturday Evening Post" magazines would be going around. Don't think "Tee Emm" got out there. Was there an Air Corps magazine ? Can't remember one.
Letters from home would only be about day-to-day family matters. Yet in some ways we kept up to date with the war news, by a process of osmosis.
Danny.
Strange, I have been thinking about that very thing myself lately. Partly because, as you say, we were for six months completely wrapped up in the 24/7 struggle to survive the Course. We had no newspapers; the only real time news that we could have been getting would be from local radio stations: (Arcadia ? - don't think so - Sarasota (possibly) Tampa or Miami (certainly). Of course, copies of "Life" and "Saturday Evening Post" magazines would be going around. Don't think "Tee Emm" got out there. Was there an Air Corps magazine ? Can't remember one.
Letters from home would only be about day-to-day family matters. Yet in some ways we kept up to date with the war news, by a process of osmosis.
Danny.
Good point, Smudge. I recall that the local news in Singapore in the '60s was well, very local. The reliable news came in via the BBC World Service (via the "The Changi Broadcasting System" cable service around the station, and by a loudspeaker outlet in the Temple Hill Officers Mess in my case. Once you heard the distinctive playing of Lillibullero played by the The Royal Marines Band (a recording that became "worn out" in the '70s but miraculously reappeared unscathed after howls of protest around the globe following an insipid rendition deemed more PC) you knew that the real world was going to be spelled out without let or hindrance (well, mostly).
I believe it was previously the BBC Overseas Service, but whether "Overseas" extended to the south-eastern United States, and if indeed the means of reception (presumably SW receivers) existed in the USAAC barracks that Danny inhabited, he alone can say. It was of course famously tuned into on illicitly hand built receivers in many of the POW camps housing captured British and Commonwealth service men around the World.
On a more personal basis, I still have a school atlas with which my mother kept track of all the unfamiliar place names that appeared in the newspapers about far off battles and deployments world wide.
The news was of course heavily censored, but it gave an insight into the global conflict that raged, and no doubt gave a topic of conversation while queuing for the rationed basic commodities necessary for everyday living.
As Danny says, the important news was of one's loved ones and of their welfare. If that was good news then that was news enough for most.
I believe it was previously the BBC Overseas Service, but whether "Overseas" extended to the south-eastern United States, and if indeed the means of reception (presumably SW receivers) existed in the USAAC barracks that Danny inhabited, he alone can say. It was of course famously tuned into on illicitly hand built receivers in many of the POW camps housing captured British and Commonwealth service men around the World.
On a more personal basis, I still have a school atlas with which my mother kept track of all the unfamiliar place names that appeared in the newspapers about far off battles and deployments world wide.
The news was of course heavily censored, but it gave an insight into the global conflict that raged, and no doubt gave a topic of conversation while queuing for the rationed basic commodities necessary for everyday living.
As Danny says, the important news was of one's loved ones and of their welfare. If that was good news then that was news enough for most.
Gentlemen,
Thank you both for your response to my question. What triggered the question was my own memory of joining the RAF as a Halton apprentice in 1969. I had never been away from home for more than one night, and suddenly, well, you know what I mean. Now that was 1969, and personal comms had hardly improved by GW1, when home news was sparse at best. My thoughts went to how those in training in the early war years, prior to US involvement, might well have been given a sanitised version of what was happening back home. In an era where we are bombarded with sensationalism disguised as fact, my interest is if the feedback you chaps had was nuanced one way or another. Also of course, the fact that the potential was there.
Smudge
Thank you both for your response to my question. What triggered the question was my own memory of joining the RAF as a Halton apprentice in 1969. I had never been away from home for more than one night, and suddenly, well, you know what I mean. Now that was 1969, and personal comms had hardly improved by GW1, when home news was sparse at best. My thoughts went to how those in training in the early war years, prior to US involvement, might well have been given a sanitised version of what was happening back home. In an era where we are bombarded with sensationalism disguised as fact, my interest is if the feedback you chaps had was nuanced one way or another. Also of course, the fact that the potential was there.
Smudge
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Danny,
The success of the Finnish Air Force in WWII is not well known.
The Brewster B-239E fighter aircraft was never referred to as the "Buffalo" in Finland; it was known simply as the "Brewster."
In Finnish Air Force service, the B-239s were regarded as being easy to fly, a "gentleman's travelling plane." The Buffalo was also popular within the FAF because of its relatively long range, and also because of a good maintenance record. This was in part due to the efforts of the Finnish mechanics, who solved a problem that plagued the Wright Cyclone engine by inverting one of the piston rings in each cylinder which had a positive effect on reliability. The cooler weather of Finland also helped, because the engine was prone to overheating as noted in tropical Pacific use. The Brewster Buffalo earned a reputation in Finnish Air Force service as one of their more successful fighter aircraft. In service from 1941 to 1945, Buffalos of Lentolaivue 24 (Fighter Squadron 24) claimed 477 Soviet Air Force warplanes destroyed, with the combat loss of just 19 Buffalos, an outstanding victory ratio of 26:1
The success of the Finnish Air Force in WWII is not well known.
The Brewster B-239E fighter aircraft was never referred to as the "Buffalo" in Finland; it was known simply as the "Brewster."
In Finnish Air Force service, the B-239s were regarded as being easy to fly, a "gentleman's travelling plane." The Buffalo was also popular within the FAF because of its relatively long range, and also because of a good maintenance record. This was in part due to the efforts of the Finnish mechanics, who solved a problem that plagued the Wright Cyclone engine by inverting one of the piston rings in each cylinder which had a positive effect on reliability. The cooler weather of Finland also helped, because the engine was prone to overheating as noted in tropical Pacific use. The Brewster Buffalo earned a reputation in Finnish Air Force service as one of their more successful fighter aircraft. In service from 1941 to 1945, Buffalos of Lentolaivue 24 (Fighter Squadron 24) claimed 477 Soviet Air Force warplanes destroyed, with the combat loss of just 19 Buffalos, an outstanding victory ratio of 26:1
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Chugalug,
Your: ".....if indeed the means of reception (presumably SW receivers) existed in the USAAC barracks that Danny inhabited, he alone can say....."
Now I come to think of it, how did we manage to hear any "wireless" at all ? We certainly didn't have any "portable" (or any other) radio sets in the barrack rooms. The PX would certainly have a radio set blaring. Over the "Tannoy" ? - certainly not. Was it possible to receive the BBC at all ? Not to my knowledge. So what did we do with our spare time ? - What spare time ?
From colour-hoisting parade at dawn to lights-out at "taps" we were "on the go". Flying and Ground School all day. In the evenings, "bulling-up" our (luxurious by RAF standards) quarters, so that they would pass muster with the Officer of the Day next morning. My log shows that, of the 58 days I was at Carlstrom, I flew on the first 22 consecutively (so weekends had gone "out of the window" - for a war goes on 24/7), had a 3-day break 5-6-7 0ct (half-way through - this must've been when we went over to West Palm Beach) and a 2-day one 25-26 Oct (I think this may have been the time of the hurricane).
Our only recreation was a swim in the tepid open-air camp pool- but you kept your mouth shut, for the local water, though safe, was brackish. The CocaCola machine did a roaring trade ! We were grateful to tumble into bed at the end of every day, I can tell you.
We were effectively in purdah, and had little time to keep up with news of the outside world. The life of a US "Kay-det" was not an easy one - nor was it intended to be.
Smudge,
Your: ".....if the feedback you chaps had was nuanced one way or another....." No, I don't think so. The BoB had been won the year before, and there was no danger of an invasion of Britain, but there was no attempt to disguise the grim time we were having with the U-boats in the N.Atlantic, and we had not been doing too well in the Mediterranean in Crete and N.Africa that summer, either.
The victory of El Alamein was still a year in the future - and even that would be balanced by the catastrophe in SE Asia.
Danny.
Your: ".....if indeed the means of reception (presumably SW receivers) existed in the USAAC barracks that Danny inhabited, he alone can say....."
Now I come to think of it, how did we manage to hear any "wireless" at all ? We certainly didn't have any "portable" (or any other) radio sets in the barrack rooms. The PX would certainly have a radio set blaring. Over the "Tannoy" ? - certainly not. Was it possible to receive the BBC at all ? Not to my knowledge. So what did we do with our spare time ? - What spare time ?
From colour-hoisting parade at dawn to lights-out at "taps" we were "on the go". Flying and Ground School all day. In the evenings, "bulling-up" our (luxurious by RAF standards) quarters, so that they would pass muster with the Officer of the Day next morning. My log shows that, of the 58 days I was at Carlstrom, I flew on the first 22 consecutively (so weekends had gone "out of the window" - for a war goes on 24/7), had a 3-day break 5-6-7 0ct (half-way through - this must've been when we went over to West Palm Beach) and a 2-day one 25-26 Oct (I think this may have been the time of the hurricane).
Our only recreation was a swim in the tepid open-air camp pool- but you kept your mouth shut, for the local water, though safe, was brackish. The CocaCola machine did a roaring trade ! We were grateful to tumble into bed at the end of every day, I can tell you.
We were effectively in purdah, and had little time to keep up with news of the outside world. The life of a US "Kay-det" was not an easy one - nor was it intended to be.
Smudge,
Your: ".....if the feedback you chaps had was nuanced one way or another....." No, I don't think so. The BoB had been won the year before, and there was no danger of an invasion of Britain, but there was no attempt to disguise the grim time we were having with the U-boats in the N.Atlantic, and we had not been doing too well in the Mediterranean in Crete and N.Africa that summer, either.
The victory of El Alamein was still a year in the future - and even that would be balanced by the catastrophe in SE Asia.
Danny.
Danny,
I think I recognise your situation, and can equate it to one of my own. As a young 21 year old in the very early 70s, and single, I was posted to Akrotiri. Half way through I was married, and my new wife joined me in our hiring in Limassol. Within 3 months a coup de tat had happened, the Turks had invaded and I was now serving on a married unaccompanied tour (SWMBO having been freighted home on a VC10 heavy lifter). With all of that going on, I completely missed a part of British history that, to this day, mates say I must remember. The three day week, I wasn't here, and there was so much going on where I was, that UK news seemed insignificant. I still have to chuckle when I see articles on news or documentary programmes about the three day week.
Smudge
I think I recognise your situation, and can equate it to one of my own. As a young 21 year old in the very early 70s, and single, I was posted to Akrotiri. Half way through I was married, and my new wife joined me in our hiring in Limassol. Within 3 months a coup de tat had happened, the Turks had invaded and I was now serving on a married unaccompanied tour (SWMBO having been freighted home on a VC10 heavy lifter). With all of that going on, I completely missed a part of British history that, to this day, mates say I must remember. The three day week, I wasn't here, and there was so much going on where I was, that UK news seemed insignificant. I still have to chuckle when I see articles on news or documentary programmes about the three day week.
Smudge
With all of that going on, I completely missed a part of British history that, to this day, mates say I must remember. The three day week, I wasn't here, and there was so much going on where I was, that UK news seemed insignificant. I still have to chuckle when I see articles on news or documentary programmes about the three day week.
And I still have to chuckle when I recall that a friend of mine did not discover that England won the World Cup in 1966 until someone mentioned it in a bar up the Gulf - in 1969!
Mind you, he was Scottish.....
Jack
And I still have to chuckle when I recall that a friend of mine did not discover that England won the World Cup in 1966 until someone mentioned it in a bar up the Gulf - in 1969!
Mind you, he was Scottish.....Jack
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Smudge and Jack,
How true that was ! We were solely concerned with the here and now: events in Europe or N. Africa were so remote that that we didn't bother about them much day to day.
Conversely the "Forgotten Army" (and the forgotten Navy and Air Force that went with it) out there, were largely out of the thoughts of the folk back home, who had plenty on their own plates to worry about without losing sleep about ours.
Danny.
How true that was ! We were solely concerned with the here and now: events in Europe or N. Africa were so remote that that we didn't bother about them much day to day.
Conversely the "Forgotten Army" (and the forgotten Navy and Air Force that went with it) out there, were largely out of the thoughts of the folk back home, who had plenty on their own plates to worry about without losing sleep about ours.
Danny.