Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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When I was a child ISTR that sick but ambulant patients wore white shirts and red ties when out and about in the City of Ely. Am I correct?
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I may be wrong, but I think that Sir Archibald McIndoe had a hand in stopping this demeaning business, when he was the reconstructive plastic surgery genius of the Queen Victoria Hospital in East Grinstead during WWII. He insisted that his "guinea-pigs" be allowed to wear uniform or mufti when they were "walking wounded" in hospital or out in town. This reinforced the impression that, hideously scarred as they might be, they were still full members of the community and not gargoyles dressed in ill-fitting red, white and blue pyjamas paraded around to be pitied by the public.
It is to the eternal credit of the people of the little town that they joined forces with him, and all treated the "guinea-pigs" as if their injuries were invisible.
Danny.
It is to the eternal credit of the people of the little town that they joined forces with him, and all treated the "guinea-pigs" as if their injuries were invisible.
Danny.
The mention of Sir Archibald McIndoe's special burns unit at the Queen Victoria Hospital at East Grinstead has made me think of another one of 53 Squadron's "Army" pilots. Lt Bernard Brian StG Daly of the Lancashire Fusiliers joined as a Hector pilot in 1937. He went off to France with the rest of the squadron on the outbreak of war (now equipped with Blenheim IV aircraft) and ended up based at Poix in Picardy. Now a Flt Lt in the RAF, he became OC "A" Flight on 01 January 1940.
Life was reasonably peaceful until the Germans invaded the Low Countries on 10 May. Part of the problem of flying Blenheims in a war situation was its similarity, from some directions, to the Ju-88. On 15 May, Brian Daly and his crew flying L4847 were set upon by a 73 Sqn Hurricane. They managed to escape but their aircraft was damaged. On the same day, P/O P K Bone and his crew flying L9399 were attacked by a 504 Sqn Hurricane. They were shot down and killed.
The very next day, Brian Daly and his crew were on a photographic sortie in L4852 when they were bounced by an 85 Sqn Hurricane. They tried to land at the Hurricane's base at Glisy but they were attacked again on final approach. Brian was forced to overshoot but finally managed to land wheels-up but by now the aircraft was on fire. Flt Lt Daly, Sgt W R B Currie and AC2 P J Blanford were all badly burned and sent back to UK for medical treatment.
Incidentally, when the Hurricane pilot was asked as to why he ignored the firing of the colours of the day by the Blenheim, he replied that he thought they were firing a cannon at him.
So it was that Brian Daly became a customer of Sir Archibald McIndoe. He was eventually cleared to return to flying duties despite his disfigurement.
The powers that be offered him a job teaching pilots to fly Blenheims at 2 SAC (School of Army Co-operation) at Andover but he was determined to finish what he had started and insisted on returning to 53 Sqn.
By now the squadron was part of Coastal Command and based at Thorney Island. The main occupation was attacking shipping and the Channel ports. On his very first operation after returning to 53 Sqn, he set off in T1992/X in company with 7 other Blenheims on 04 February 1941 to attack Cherbourg. Flt Lt B B StG Daly, Sgt J L Jones and Sgt R H Trafford failed to return and are remembered on the Runnymede Memorial.
Life was reasonably peaceful until the Germans invaded the Low Countries on 10 May. Part of the problem of flying Blenheims in a war situation was its similarity, from some directions, to the Ju-88. On 15 May, Brian Daly and his crew flying L4847 were set upon by a 73 Sqn Hurricane. They managed to escape but their aircraft was damaged. On the same day, P/O P K Bone and his crew flying L9399 were attacked by a 504 Sqn Hurricane. They were shot down and killed.
The very next day, Brian Daly and his crew were on a photographic sortie in L4852 when they were bounced by an 85 Sqn Hurricane. They tried to land at the Hurricane's base at Glisy but they were attacked again on final approach. Brian was forced to overshoot but finally managed to land wheels-up but by now the aircraft was on fire. Flt Lt Daly, Sgt W R B Currie and AC2 P J Blanford were all badly burned and sent back to UK for medical treatment.
Incidentally, when the Hurricane pilot was asked as to why he ignored the firing of the colours of the day by the Blenheim, he replied that he thought they were firing a cannon at him.
So it was that Brian Daly became a customer of Sir Archibald McIndoe. He was eventually cleared to return to flying duties despite his disfigurement.
The powers that be offered him a job teaching pilots to fly Blenheims at 2 SAC (School of Army Co-operation) at Andover but he was determined to finish what he had started and insisted on returning to 53 Sqn.
By now the squadron was part of Coastal Command and based at Thorney Island. The main occupation was attacking shipping and the Channel ports. On his very first operation after returning to 53 Sqn, he set off in T1992/X in company with 7 other Blenheims on 04 February 1941 to attack Cherbourg. Flt Lt B B StG Daly, Sgt J L Jones and Sgt R H Trafford failed to return and are remembered on the Runnymede Memorial.
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JW411 (#10187),
Recalls the "Tee Emm" story of the Fighter Pilot, who in his Combat Report stated: "I thought it might be a Hurricane, so I only gave it a short burst....."
For which "Guarded Recognition" he was awarded the month's Highly Derogatory Order of the Irremovable Digit by Wg Cdr Spry.
And how about the "Battle of Barking Creek" ?
Danny42C.
...he replied that he thought they were firing a cannon at him...
For which "Guarded Recognition" he was awarded the month's Highly Derogatory Order of the Irremovable Digit by Wg Cdr Spry.
And how about the "Battle of Barking Creek" ?
Danny42C.
The man who got me into aviation had dozens of Tee Emm magazines and he used to get me to read them (I learned a lot). My memory is not what it used to be but was the good show award the MDOVO (Most Desirable Order of the Vacated Orifice)?
During happy times with the Khormaksar Kids 65 years ago I used to devour the copies of Tee Emm brought home by my father, together with other publications and aircraft recognition cards which I still have. His intention was to distract me from making a pestilential nuisance of ourselves around the station; it worked, some of the time. Looking back, those old publications remain superbly written examples of clarity and brevity.
The other Kids enjoyed Dandy and Beano but I reckoned Tee Emm, the pilot training manual AP129 and the Bristol Brigand maintenance AP would be more useful when I was old enough to acquire my Lancaster. And they say today's children have problems ... being deprived of said Lancaster has had a lasting effect on me, I'm considering claiming against someone or something
The other Kids enjoyed Dandy and Beano but I reckoned Tee Emm, the pilot training manual AP129 and the Bristol Brigand maintenance AP would be more useful when I was old enough to acquire my Lancaster. And they say today's children have problems ... being deprived of said Lancaster has had a lasting effect on me, I'm considering claiming against someone or something
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All our Yesterdays - Carlstrom Field, Florida.
JW411 (#10189),
I have a DVD of the complete Tee Emm series, would think they should be still obtainable on line.
Roaming around on the Net, stumbled on pure gold - a complete history of Carlstrom Field, Arcadia, FLA. - Google >
RAF TEE EMM Official Air Service Training Memorandum 1942 > RAF wings over Florida: Memories of World War II British air cadets > Purdue University ... Purdue e-Pubs ... Purdue University Press e-books OLD Purdue University Press ... 1-1-2000 ... RAF wings over Florida: Memories of World War II ... British air cadets ... Willard Largent.
I could write reams of comment, but will only note:
Page 15, Re: "egg production". At Leeming (?) the studes were warned off a mink farm, seems the aircraft noise put the males "off their stroke", as it were.
Page 16, Re: "There they would be expected to deal with the obstinate ways of the Vultee BT-13". So I was not the only one to find fault with that uncouth aircraft (cf my early Posts).
Page 16, Re: "welcome to British Cadets". All right for 42A ! (none of this for 42C, as I recall).
Page 17, Re: "There are no compelling explanations why the washout rate among Royal Air Force Arnold Plan cadets was twice that of the RAF cadets who went through one of the British Flying Training Schools" (BFTS)". Nor can there be now - it's all too long ago.
Page 18, Re: "hazing", (advanced as one of the reason reasons for above)
There are some 40 more fascinating pages of this. Worth a look !
Danny.
I have a DVD of the complete Tee Emm series, would think they should be still obtainable on line.
Roaming around on the Net, stumbled on pure gold - a complete history of Carlstrom Field, Arcadia, FLA. - Google >
RAF TEE EMM Official Air Service Training Memorandum 1942 > RAF wings over Florida: Memories of World War II British air cadets > Purdue University ... Purdue e-Pubs ... Purdue University Press e-books OLD Purdue University Press ... 1-1-2000 ... RAF wings over Florida: Memories of World War II ... British air cadets ... Willard Largent.
I could write reams of comment, but will only note:
Page 15, Re: "egg production". At Leeming (?) the studes were warned off a mink farm, seems the aircraft noise put the males "off their stroke", as it were.
Page 16, Re: "There they would be expected to deal with the obstinate ways of the Vultee BT-13". So I was not the only one to find fault with that uncouth aircraft (cf my early Posts).
Page 16, Re: "welcome to British Cadets". All right for 42A ! (none of this for 42C, as I recall).
Page 17, Re: "There are no compelling explanations why the washout rate among Royal Air Force Arnold Plan cadets was twice that of the RAF cadets who went through one of the British Flying Training Schools" (BFTS)". Nor can there be now - it's all too long ago.
Page 18, Re: "hazing", (advanced as one of the reason reasons for above)
There are some 40 more fascinating pages of this. Worth a look !
Danny.
Well done, Danny! Here is the link to the .pdf ebook:-
http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewc...t=press_ebooks
which I have duly downloaded into my PPRuNe Folder (Right Click = Save As) for perusal at my leisure (not much of that these days!). Sad that the author died a couple of years after completing it, and that his Son-in-Law published it in his memory.
In return may I propose this site :-
Abandoned & Little-Known Airfields: Florida, Ft. Myers area
Some very good aerial photos of Carlstrom half-way down an exceedingly long page!
BTW I seem to remember that most of the prohibited areas on the low level charts in the 60s were Mink Farms!
http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewc...t=press_ebooks
which I have duly downloaded into my PPRuNe Folder (Right Click = Save As) for perusal at my leisure (not much of that these days!). Sad that the author died a couple of years after completing it, and that his Son-in-Law published it in his memory.
In return may I propose this site :-
Abandoned & Little-Known Airfields: Florida, Ft. Myers area
Some very good aerial photos of Carlstrom half-way down an exceedingly long page!
BTW I seem to remember that most of the prohibited areas on the low level charts in the 60s were Mink Farms!
Danny (great that you are back in THE chair) and Mr Chugalug2. I am sure that you will enjoy Will Largent's "RAF Wings over Florida (Memories of World War 11 British Air Cadets). As you may recall, (if not, my posts 5509 and 5519, Page 276, April 2014 refer to this book as one of my main sources for my slender contribution to this great thread). Indeed Danny, by Page283, your post 5642, you too had found it of interest.
Will Largent was a former journalist who flew in WW 11 on B-26 bombers as a USAAC crew member. He was awarded the Purple Heart, the Air Medal with nine oak-leaf clusters, four combat ribbons, and the French Croix de Guerre.
His interviews with the cadets and instructors give us such a vivid picture of the training environment in Florida.
Ian BB
Will Largent was a former journalist who flew in WW 11 on B-26 bombers as a USAAC crew member. He was awarded the Purple Heart, the Air Medal with nine oak-leaf clusters, four combat ribbons, and the French Croix de Guerre.
His interviews with the cadets and instructors give us such a vivid picture of the training environment in Florida.
Ian BB
IB-B, thank you for reminding us of the salad days of this thread when we had so many contributing to the OP theme. That we have rarely proceeded in a linear fashion, but flit and wander as we please, is to my mind testament to the very nature of this virtual crew room. Researchers will have rich veins to mine within these pages, but they will have to mine deep and search its entirety for their needs. In return they will be rewarded with abundance.
Now that we have returned to Carlstrom here are two YouTube videos of it. A sort of before and after:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyDo795tE3U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq3rBmJJKtA&t=71s
Now that we have returned to Carlstrom here are two YouTube videos of it. A sort of before and after:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyDo795tE3U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq3rBmJJKtA&t=71s
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The loops and whorls of this thread have been fantastic since I found it.
There's an argument for someone with mahoosive time on their hands to create a simple index of topics, and just where they started. I know about Wiki-posts on other forums ... I shall explore how they work here. (Edit = seems familiar!)
There's an argument for someone with mahoosive time on their hands to create a simple index of topics, and just where they started. I know about Wiki-posts on other forums ... I shall explore how they work here. (Edit = seems familiar!)
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Chugalug,
Thank you for the the three links - the first is clearly the short way into the Carlstrom story, and the second the amazing Youtube of the "abandoned house" and the "ghost town" of Florida. It's a "Marie Celeste" situation, isn't it ? Florida is not Darkest Africa, for pete's sake ! How come they can "lose" a town ? And in what fine conditoh do the buildings appear to be, and the roads and footpaths. Please step forward, any resident of Florida on this frequency, and explain to us how this came about !
Your third link would not 'play', not on Internet Explorer nor on Google Chrome, which is all I've got. But no matter, we've seen enough to whet our appetite. It so happens that another skeleton has tumbled out of the closet, so to speak. During my time at Leeming, two of our new Controllers, Paul Harris and Bob McEvoy, presented me with a line drawing of a Vultee Vengeance. It was of professional quality, clearly Paul was an expert draughtsman and I think Bob had coloured it. I had not set eyes on it for fifty years.
I have moved into my daughter Mary's house to end my days. Our old house is only three doors away; we are (well, Mary is !) clearing it for sale. The drawing turned up: they had drawn two aerial wires from the tail, one to the mast on top, and a lower one clearly going to a wingtip ! (the drawing was side view). They would have researched this, it would be accurate. (You'll remember how we puzzled over this wire).
I would scan it and Post the drawing on here if only I could. One day someone may come along to do it for us.
...............................
Ian BB,
Yes, Will Largent (RIP) wrote a wonderful story - and in what detail ! But he was a journalist after all, and I suspect had 'gilded the lily' more than somewhat. AFAIK, the only times I was in Arcadia were on arriving and departing by train; I do not recall any tumultuous welcome nor fond farewell. Perhaps by 42C (three months later), we'd outstayed our welcome.
Cheers, both, Danny.
Thank you for the the three links - the first is clearly the short way into the Carlstrom story, and the second the amazing Youtube of the "abandoned house" and the "ghost town" of Florida. It's a "Marie Celeste" situation, isn't it ? Florida is not Darkest Africa, for pete's sake ! How come they can "lose" a town ? And in what fine conditoh do the buildings appear to be, and the roads and footpaths. Please step forward, any resident of Florida on this frequency, and explain to us how this came about !
Your third link would not 'play', not on Internet Explorer nor on Google Chrome, which is all I've got. But no matter, we've seen enough to whet our appetite. It so happens that another skeleton has tumbled out of the closet, so to speak. During my time at Leeming, two of our new Controllers, Paul Harris and Bob McEvoy, presented me with a line drawing of a Vultee Vengeance. It was of professional quality, clearly Paul was an expert draughtsman and I think Bob had coloured it. I had not set eyes on it for fifty years.
I have moved into my daughter Mary's house to end my days. Our old house is only three doors away; we are (well, Mary is !) clearing it for sale. The drawing turned up: they had drawn two aerial wires from the tail, one to the mast on top, and a lower one clearly going to a wingtip ! (the drawing was side view). They would have researched this, it would be accurate. (You'll remember how we puzzled over this wire).
I would scan it and Post the drawing on here if only I could. One day someone may come along to do it for us.
...............................
Ian BB,
Yes, Will Largent (RIP) wrote a wonderful story - and in what detail ! But he was a journalist after all, and I suspect had 'gilded the lily' more than somewhat. AFAIK, the only times I was in Arcadia were on arriving and departing by train; I do not recall any tumultuous welcome nor fond farewell. Perhaps by 42C (three months later), we'd outstayed our welcome.
Cheers, both, Danny.
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During my time at Leeming, two of our new Controllers, Paul Harris and Bob McEvoy, presented me with a line drawing of a Vultee Vengeance. It was of professional quality, clearly Paul was an expert draughtsman and I think Bob had coloured it. I had not set eyes on it for fifty years.
Nearly all my work was on A3 paper, so too big to scan on a domestic device, and of course virtually all gone to whoever commissioned it!
Thank you Danny and Chugalug; the Carlstrom Field links are quite fascinating and, having had a look at Google Earth, it's amazing that so much of it is still there. It is a real time warp.
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MPN11,
My advice would be - "Don't bother !" The beauty of this Best Thread Ever is that it "wanders lonely as a cloud / that floats on high o'er vales and hills". And our wise Moderators have long since given up on us as incorrigible, and left us to it.
For a long time (if you except "Stickies" and "Capcom", which are special cases), it had the most Posts and, the most 'hits' of any Thread on "Military Aviation". Then recently "F-35 Cancelled....." displaced us in respect of the number of Posts - but now we are coming up fast on the inside rails and I hope we'll soon get our nose in front (where it belongs).
Give the stove a poke - put the kettle on ! - Raise a mug to the memory of our Founder, Cliff Leach .......
Cheers, Danny.
Mr Chugalug2
Enjoyed the Carlstrom Army Airfield video but had to giggle at 4.40 when picture said RAF 1941 - while seeing RN matelots with torpedo in front of a Fairy Albacore, and again at 9.30 RAF Sterman (sic) with two more fellows in sailor hats!
Danny
My dad didn't get a tumultuous welcome in Sept. 1942 either - but he did recall that when the train was being re-coaled and watered before they reached Clewiston the locals took the RAF "Kids" off the train for food and orange juice in the station waiting room - when they reboarded they found a bag of oranges on each of their seats - an unbelievable luxury as no such bounty had been seen in the UK for years.
And no Danny, you hadn't outstayed your welcome - you just weren't a novelty anymore.
Ian B-B
Enjoyed the Carlstrom Army Airfield video but had to giggle at 4.40 when picture said RAF 1941 - while seeing RN matelots with torpedo in front of a Fairy Albacore, and again at 9.30 RAF Sterman (sic) with two more fellows in sailor hats!
Danny
My dad didn't get a tumultuous welcome in Sept. 1942 either - but he did recall that when the train was being re-coaled and watered before they reached Clewiston the locals took the RAF "Kids" off the train for food and orange juice in the station waiting room - when they reboarded they found a bag of oranges on each of their seats - an unbelievable luxury as no such bounty had been seen in the UK for years.
And no Danny, you hadn't outstayed your welcome - you just weren't a novelty anymore.
Ian B-B
MPN 11,
Do you think there is something about some Air Trafficers and artists coming from the same mould?
I had a good friend on my ITS course at South Cerney in 1960 who came from Rhodesia and he was destined to become an AEO. It was obviously difficult for Hugh to go back home on leave so he used to come back with me to my family in Scotland.
Anyway, he did not get on too well for some reason with the AEO game and re-mustered into ATC.
We just about managed to keep in touch and many years later I was driving back to Brize on a Friday afternoon from an interview with Air Secs branch (I wanted to PVR and they wanted me to go for Specialist Aircrew).
I decided to pop into Benson on the way back for TGIF and hopefully to have a beer with Hugh; which I did
To cut a long story short, I had been involved in running an RAFGSA gliding club for 17 years in my spare time and I had been asked what I would like as a present when I retired. I told them that I would just like them to replace all of the tools that they had borrowed from me over the years!
Come the retirement party at Weston on the Green; instead of getting a tool kit, I was presented with the most wonderful oil painting of Belfast XR365 "Silly Old Hector"! It was one of the few occasions in my life when I was speechless.
Imagine my amazement when I discovered that it had painted by Hugh (he had given me absolutely no clues when I had met him at Benson a few weeks before).
"Silly Old Hector" hangs in pride of place in my lounge and I still have not figured out how Hugh has managed to paint it such that the cloud colours change quite dramatically whether it is a bright day or a dull one.
Perhaps it is such hidden talents that allow our Air Trafficers to keep us apart and our Fighter Controllers to get us together.
Do you think there is something about some Air Trafficers and artists coming from the same mould?
I had a good friend on my ITS course at South Cerney in 1960 who came from Rhodesia and he was destined to become an AEO. It was obviously difficult for Hugh to go back home on leave so he used to come back with me to my family in Scotland.
Anyway, he did not get on too well for some reason with the AEO game and re-mustered into ATC.
We just about managed to keep in touch and many years later I was driving back to Brize on a Friday afternoon from an interview with Air Secs branch (I wanted to PVR and they wanted me to go for Specialist Aircrew).
I decided to pop into Benson on the way back for TGIF and hopefully to have a beer with Hugh; which I did
To cut a long story short, I had been involved in running an RAFGSA gliding club for 17 years in my spare time and I had been asked what I would like as a present when I retired. I told them that I would just like them to replace all of the tools that they had borrowed from me over the years!
Come the retirement party at Weston on the Green; instead of getting a tool kit, I was presented with the most wonderful oil painting of Belfast XR365 "Silly Old Hector"! It was one of the few occasions in my life when I was speechless.
Imagine my amazement when I discovered that it had painted by Hugh (he had given me absolutely no clues when I had met him at Benson a few weeks before).
"Silly Old Hector" hangs in pride of place in my lounge and I still have not figured out how Hugh has managed to paint it such that the cloud colours change quite dramatically whether it is a bright day or a dull one.
Perhaps it is such hidden talents that allow our Air Trafficers to keep us apart and our Fighter Controllers to get us together.
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Mute inglorios Miltons ?
JW411,
I don't think that there was any general case that Air Trafficers were of greater artistic merit than the average. Perhaps they were inspired by the constantly changing cloudscapes and light on the other side of the triple-glazing. (Except for the poor troglodytes of Area Radar, who, like Fighter Controllers, spent their days immured deep down in their caves and never saw the light of day, like pit ponies).
Even the popular myth that the WRAF "Stunners" (officers and airwomen) were routed into ATC was/is (?) not universally true, but I have "ever found it so - Benedicamus Domino".
(Apologies to Belloc or Chesterton ?)
Danny.
I don't think that there was any general case that Air Trafficers were of greater artistic merit than the average. Perhaps they were inspired by the constantly changing cloudscapes and light on the other side of the triple-glazing. (Except for the poor troglodytes of Area Radar, who, like Fighter Controllers, spent their days immured deep down in their caves and never saw the light of day, like pit ponies).
Even the popular myth that the WRAF "Stunners" (officers and airwomen) were routed into ATC was/is (?) not universally true, but I have "ever found it so - Benedicamus Domino".
(Apologies to Belloc or Chesterton ?)Danny.