Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
Danny
To be sure and isn't it "The luck of the Irish" and, as you know yerself, "Only the good die young"
A drop of "The water of life" will be taken later to celebrate your happy anniversary. Slainte!
Ian B-B
To be sure and isn't it "The luck of the Irish" and, as you know yerself, "Only the good die young"
A drop of "The water of life" will be taken later to celebrate your happy anniversary. Slainte!
Ian B-B
Danny invites all of good wiil to join hin in the Cybercrewroom tonight for a noggin to celebrate the 73rd anniversity of the morning when he reduced a Vegeance to scrap in the Arakan - but he and his pal "Stew" (in the back seat) miraculously survived against all the odds. 
The Devil looks after his own ?
The Devil looks after his own ?
I believe angels had more to do with that "landing" than the devil, who only destroys good things and people. You have given us so much laughter, information, appreciation and cyber-fellowship. Thank you. Here's to keeping on.
Your Pic is back (in all its glory !)
I join Globalnav in his sentiments, you give so much entertainment & info to so many.
Danny: At 10240 you mention the good work that could be done with an ACR7. RAF Salalah had one back in the mid-60s that had occasionally to be used for real - and that meant keeping its operator current on better days when we could see the airfield from miles away. I suspect that JW411 can remember more about this than I do.
FED:
I like the photographs; it's quite remarkable that, between us, we have come up with photographs of the beginning and the end of an exercise that took place over half-a-century ago. Indeed, it is even the same Belfast, XR369 "Spartacus". I am unlikely to be in your photograph since in 1966 I was still flying Argosys around the Middle East (with ICM).
In fact, the clever sods among you will have already noticed that XR369 has the old Belslow back end (where everything came to a neat taper). Sadly, this design resulted in the aircraft being about 11% down on designed performance so Shorts had to go back to the drawing board and find a solution.
The entire arse end was redesigned and that just about solved the problem. We called them Fastbacks and by the time I got there in 1972, I think they had all been modified.
I'll try and do a bit on the Salalah ACR 7 tomorrow.
Danny, I've just raised a glass to you.
I like the photographs; it's quite remarkable that, between us, we have come up with photographs of the beginning and the end of an exercise that took place over half-a-century ago. Indeed, it is even the same Belfast, XR369 "Spartacus". I am unlikely to be in your photograph since in 1966 I was still flying Argosys around the Middle East (with ICM).
In fact, the clever sods among you will have already noticed that XR369 has the old Belslow back end (where everything came to a neat taper). Sadly, this design resulted in the aircraft being about 11% down on designed performance so Shorts had to go back to the drawing board and find a solution.
The entire arse end was redesigned and that just about solved the problem. We called them Fastbacks and by the time I got there in 1972, I think they had all been modified.
I'll try and do a bit on the Salalah ACR 7 tomorrow.
Danny, I've just raised a glass to you.
Danny invites all of good will to join him in the Cybercrewroom tonight for a noggin to celebrate the 73rd anniversity of the morning when he reduced a Vengeance to scrap in the Arakan - but he and his pal "Stew" (in the back seat) miraculously survived against all the odds. - Danny
Why thank you kindly, Sir - presumably the
has now been hoisted close up, albeit for a Gordon's (private joke
) rather than the Carew's you probably had that day.
The Devil looks after his own? - Danny
And how enormously pleased we all, amongst so many others closer to home, must be that he did....
Jack
Why thank you kindly, Sir - presumably the
has now been hoisted close up, albeit for a Gordon's (private joke
) rather than the Carew's you probably had that day. The Devil looks after his own? - Danny
And how enormously pleased we all, amongst so many others closer to home, must be that he did....
Jack
Join Date: Mar 2010
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A votre santé, cher Danny42C.
Je vous lève mon verre de Calvados
.
.
Je vous lève mon verre de Calvados
.
.
Mention of XP357 (Juliet) and XS412 brought back a few memories..I`ve got the panel of the tailboom section with XP357 on it here in my `office`; it was cut out by the Manston fire schoool when she had spent some time at the training school,after another life in SAR yellow.She was also the cab that shed all her `tail-feathers` when we were in formation with another WW in another part of Borneo,but we survived...!
There are a few photos on the `Rotors` forum,(Rotorheads around the world-views from the cockpit),not the videos,page 15/16...some pics won`t open..
XS412 was also flown when I was on 230 at Odiham for a few months,and the last WW I flew on the day I left the Squadron in Feb.`68..
I did also fly a 1h45m I/F mutual with FED once almost 50 yrs ago,but I doubt he`ll remember it as he`s been `fiddling` with a 21 yr old..!!
There are a few photos on the `Rotors` forum,(Rotorheads around the world-views from the cockpit),not the videos,page 15/16...some pics won`t open..
XS412 was also flown when I was on 230 at Odiham for a few months,and the last WW I flew on the day I left the Squadron in Feb.`68..
I did also fly a 1h45m I/F mutual with FED once almost 50 yrs ago,but I doubt he`ll remember it as he`s been `fiddling` with a 21 yr old..!!
hic indeed!!
Best to you, Danny
p.s. Lick the fingers, no waste..
I did also fly a 1h45m I/F mutual with FED once almost 50 yrs ago
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All,
Thank you for your kind remarks. Have had double ration of "Baileys" in my coffee to celebrate. As you say, Ian, Slainte ! - or "Long may your lum reek !"
There is something else to celebrate, too: for a long time I used to note here that this, Cliff's magnificent Thread of ours, had (if you except the special cases of "Stickies" and "CapCom") the largest number of Posts and "hits" of any Thread on "Military Aviation" Forum. Then the upstart "F-35 Cancelled" pipped us before the 10,000 Post point, but only in respect of the Posts figure.
At time of writing, we have our noses in front again (if only by 1) on that too - which it is where it belongs IMHO.
Danny.
Thank you for your kind remarks. Have had double ration of "Baileys" in my coffee to celebrate. As you say, Ian, Slainte ! - or "Long may your lum reek !"
There is something else to celebrate, too: for a long time I used to note here that this, Cliff's magnificent Thread of ours, had (if you except the special cases of "Stickies" and "CapCom") the largest number of Posts and "hits" of any Thread on "Military Aviation" Forum. Then the upstart "F-35 Cancelled" pipped us before the 10,000 Post point, but only in respect of the Posts figure.
At time of writing, we have our noses in front again (if only by 1) on that too - which it is where it belongs IMHO.
Danny.
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Perhaps we coukd mount a counter-attack along the lines of "What if the Westland Whirlwind" (the twin-Peregrine one) hadn't been cancelled"?
Was it big enough to take a pair of Merlins? Or would they have weighed it down to the detriment of its other qualities?
Was it big enough to take a pair of Merlins? Or would they have weighed it down to the detriment of its other qualities?
For decades aviators have had an uneasy relationship with the met man. It seems they had good reason.
Nobel prize winner Kenneth Arrow, who died earlier this week, served the USAF as a long-range weather forecaster from 1942 to 1946. His analytical mind soon discovered that the forecasts were no better than random guesses, but was rebuffed, being told that the commanding general was well aware that the forecasts were useless. However, Arrow was told, the general required them for planning purposes.
Nobel prize winner Kenneth Arrow, who died earlier this week, served the USAF as a long-range weather forecaster from 1942 to 1946. His analytical mind soon discovered that the forecasts were no better than random guesses, but was rebuffed, being told that the commanding general was well aware that the forecasts were useless. However, Arrow was told, the general required them for planning purposes.
The Salalah ACR 7:
Why did "Sunny Salalah" need an ACR 7 you may wonder? Well, the thing is that Salalah was not always sunny. In fact, from late May until early September the surrounding coastal plain suffered from a local monsoon or "khareef" as the locals called it. I believe this was caused by a very moist southerly airflow coming over the thermal equator and then meeting the relatively cold sea south of the airfield. A further complication was the range of hills which rose up steeply from the coastal plain to a height of about 3,000 feet just a few miles north of the airfield (which hills then formed the plateau which ran north to the airfield at Thumrait - also known as Midway in those days).
The main effect of all of this was a lot of low cloud and drizzle (I don't remember rain being a particular problem but everything used to go green). Some days the general cloudbase might not go much above 200 feet even at 2 o'clock in the afternoon.
The airfield consisted of two sand runways (35/17 and 22/04) about 5,000 feet long. Because of the surrounding terrain, during the khareef the only safe approach possible was to runway 35. Now having a PAR (Precision Approach Radar) would have been a God send but Mrs Windsor could only afford to let us have an ACR 7 (Airfield Control Radar). For those of you who are not familiar with such things, PAR gives precise indications of aircraft position on centre line AND glide path wheras ACR 7 was centre line only and the aircraft had to make up its own glide path. For that reason the minima for the ACR 7 approach was somewhere around 350 - 400 feet.
Now some of you might be way ahead of me here but the next complication was that with a southerly monsoon blowing and runway 35 in use, then there was going to be about a 15 knot tailwind on touchdown so there was no time to bugger about when and if you found the 35 threshold.
The lack of a PAR was more than made up for by the two Air Trafficers at Salalah. (One was called Colin but I am mortified to say that I can't remember the other one's name). They were both brilliant and even with their ancient equipment, I had total faith in them. I never had a missed approach.
Colin and his mate would talk us down to 350 - 400 feet and by then we would usually have come out of the main cloud base over a fairly angry sea with the beach in sight. The trouble was that the airfield would as often as not still be obscured with thin layers of low cloud. There was no approach lighting and I think the runway edge lighting consisted of glim lamps. Not to worry, local ingenuity had risen to the task. A couple of pits had been dug into the sand, one almost at the threshold and another just a few hundred yards short. In each was a 44 gallon drum full of scrap jet fuel etc. When the conditions were particularly bad, both drums would be lit.
So, although we could not see the runway at minima, the boys would keep going with heading changes (advisory, of course) and we would usually be able to see at least the first orange glow if not both of them. We did not usually go into Salalah at night but sometimes "exigencies of the service" made it necessary. One night I finally got the numbers at about 150 feet. Not bad for an old ACR 7 and a couple of consumate professional operators.
Mind you, they had a vested interest in getting us down for we had their mail, food, beer, cigarettes, ammunition, newspapers and, from time to time, "the technical documents" on board. (The latter were black and white adult movies).
Why did "Sunny Salalah" need an ACR 7 you may wonder? Well, the thing is that Salalah was not always sunny. In fact, from late May until early September the surrounding coastal plain suffered from a local monsoon or "khareef" as the locals called it. I believe this was caused by a very moist southerly airflow coming over the thermal equator and then meeting the relatively cold sea south of the airfield. A further complication was the range of hills which rose up steeply from the coastal plain to a height of about 3,000 feet just a few miles north of the airfield (which hills then formed the plateau which ran north to the airfield at Thumrait - also known as Midway in those days).
The main effect of all of this was a lot of low cloud and drizzle (I don't remember rain being a particular problem but everything used to go green). Some days the general cloudbase might not go much above 200 feet even at 2 o'clock in the afternoon.
The airfield consisted of two sand runways (35/17 and 22/04) about 5,000 feet long. Because of the surrounding terrain, during the khareef the only safe approach possible was to runway 35. Now having a PAR (Precision Approach Radar) would have been a God send but Mrs Windsor could only afford to let us have an ACR 7 (Airfield Control Radar). For those of you who are not familiar with such things, PAR gives precise indications of aircraft position on centre line AND glide path wheras ACR 7 was centre line only and the aircraft had to make up its own glide path. For that reason the minima for the ACR 7 approach was somewhere around 350 - 400 feet.
Now some of you might be way ahead of me here but the next complication was that with a southerly monsoon blowing and runway 35 in use, then there was going to be about a 15 knot tailwind on touchdown so there was no time to bugger about when and if you found the 35 threshold.
The lack of a PAR was more than made up for by the two Air Trafficers at Salalah. (One was called Colin but I am mortified to say that I can't remember the other one's name). They were both brilliant and even with their ancient equipment, I had total faith in them. I never had a missed approach.
Colin and his mate would talk us down to 350 - 400 feet and by then we would usually have come out of the main cloud base over a fairly angry sea with the beach in sight. The trouble was that the airfield would as often as not still be obscured with thin layers of low cloud. There was no approach lighting and I think the runway edge lighting consisted of glim lamps. Not to worry, local ingenuity had risen to the task. A couple of pits had been dug into the sand, one almost at the threshold and another just a few hundred yards short. In each was a 44 gallon drum full of scrap jet fuel etc. When the conditions were particularly bad, both drums would be lit.
So, although we could not see the runway at minima, the boys would keep going with heading changes (advisory, of course) and we would usually be able to see at least the first orange glow if not both of them. We did not usually go into Salalah at night but sometimes "exigencies of the service" made it necessary. One night I finally got the numbers at about 150 feet. Not bad for an old ACR 7 and a couple of consumate professional operators.
Mind you, they had a vested interest in getting us down for we had their mail, food, beer, cigarettes, ammunition, newspapers and, from time to time, "the technical documents" on board. (The latter were black and white adult movies).
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Ha, my old mate Colin ... in the days when you could have a fg off SATCO
ISTR I was nearly posted there [or one of the other Arabian sand-holes] until RAF PMC realised I hadn't [yet] done the GCA course
Colin was/is indeed a consummate professional, with whom I had the pleasure to work with on several occasions [in more civilised circumstances!]
IIRC, the ACR7 was actually, originally, a ship's navigation radar which 'inverted' for ATC use.
ISTR I was nearly posted there [or one of the other Arabian sand-holes] until RAF PMC realised I hadn't [yet] done the GCA course
Colin was/is indeed a consummate professional, with whom I had the pleasure to work with on several occasions [in more civilised circumstances!]
IIRC, the ACR7 was actually, originally, a ship's navigation radar which 'inverted' for ATC use.
Last edited by MPN11; 25th Feb 2017 at 18:17. Reason: Remove photo of Colin in Bugis Street :D
ACR7 wasn't restricted to the far off reaches of Empire, it also constituted the only radar talk down aid at Colerne. Funny how the operator and the kit seemed to combine in one's memory. At Colerne that operator was Mark, though being Polish I suspect that was an anglicised version of his real name. My abiding memory is of making an approach to that hilltop runway in driving rain, with a strong crosswind from the left, low cloud, and the windscreen wipers of the Hastings working at full tilt. Throughout it all is Mark's calm voice chanting off the decreasing ranges and the heights that we should be passing through, whilst also making continuous corrections to our heading so as to keep us on the centreline. Eventually he tells us that we are approaching the breakoff height and to look ahead and continue visually or carryout a Go-around. Invariably though, there to the right are the multi-coloured lights of Colerne glistening through the water festooned windows.
Later he joins us in the Officers Mess Bar. Gone now is the measured tone, now he is the warm friendly Pole again as he greets me with accented enthusiasm, "My Dear, how good to see you safely back again!". Like all his fellow Poles, and their neighbours, he was a great asset to the Royal Air Force, both professionally and culturally.
Later he joins us in the Officers Mess Bar. Gone now is the measured tone, now he is the warm friendly Pole again as he greets me with accented enthusiasm, "My Dear, how good to see you safely back again!". Like all his fellow Poles, and their neighbours, he was a great asset to the Royal Air Force, both professionally and culturally.
Last edited by Chugalug2; 26th Feb 2017 at 07:44.