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Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

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Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

Old 20th Jun 2016, 22:33
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MPN11
How many Map Pins with callsigns written on them can one man cope with?
I need a deconstruction of WTF all that desk is full of, please, Warmtoast.
The board was designed locally to try and keep tabs on the station's various aircraft as they started, taxied, took-off and either did circuits and bumps or left the local area and vice-versa as they returned - ISTR it never did what it was designed to do with any degree of success, but as Thornhill had 27 Chipmunks, 60 Harvards and a variety of Ansons on strength it was not surprising!
In the absence of an ATCO who knew(?) how it worked and when tasked to man it in his absence I found it fiendishly complicated to use.

I never was an ATCO, but filled in my early days at RAF Thornhill (5 FTS), S. Rhodesia as an Air Traffic Control Assistant, probably the lowest form of life in the control tower apart from the tea lady.



...the Thornhill ATC with someone shining an Aldis lamp at me as I took the photo.
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 09:47
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Burmese Spitfires

My late Father told me of burying stuff, including Merlin engines at an
airfield in Scotland. The airfield was to be handed over to the Navy and
lots of stuff had to be got rid off. Before you go looking he also told me the locals
were looking at what they were doing and he did'nt think it stayed in the ground
very long.

Perhaps the Spitfires really existed and the locals dug them and made them
into something usefull.
John
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 09:59
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Of course, John.
The rear-view mirror housings make really good soup ladles.
Now, I've just gotta work out what I can do with this Merlin block.
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 11:06
  #8764 (permalink)  
Danny42C
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Warmtoast,
...The board was designed locally to try and keep tabs on the station's various aircraft as they started, taxied, took-off and either did circuits and bumps or left the local area and vice-versa as they returned...
Now I call that overkill ! No wonder it didn't work.
...apart from the tea lady...
TEA LADY ? TEA LADY ? Tea Lady ? ....... Who ever heard of such a thing ?... What did we pay you for ? Do you think you're a Civil Servant, perhaps ?
...the Thornhill ATC with someone shining an Aldis lamp at me as I took the photo..
.
Jammy ! What a Des Res !....Lucky it was just an Aldis - not a Verey pistol.
...I never was an ATCO..
.
Very wise. But went on to higher things, I'm sure.

Danny.

Last edited by Danny42C; 21st Jun 2016 at 11:10. Reason: Forgot a Box
 
Old 21st Jun 2016, 11:17
  #8765 (permalink)  
 
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Tengah Tower in the late 60s also had a Locally Employed Person in the shape of young Frank Goh, a Chinese in his early 20s. Frank would make the brews, pop down to the Coke machine in the entrance lobby [20c bottle, IIRC] for you, and did the general cleaning. Fond memories of Frank - jolly good chap all round.

In a normal Tower, it was of course the lot of the AATCs to make the brews, as the ATCOs were usually chained to their consoles by a headset cable. However, in a 'nice' Tower, you did occasionally find that a slack/spare ATCO will do the job, especially if the AATCs are particularly busy. And as SATCO Waddington, one of my self-appointed "War Roles" on callouts was to fill and switch on the water boiler, so that the crew could have a brew once they'd done all the essential tasks [at whatever ghastly hour the sirens had gone off!].
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 11:41
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esa aardvark and Stanwell,

At the war's end, there were dark stories in India/Burma about unwanted Merlin engines being used for road-fill. No idea if it was true.

Danny.
 
Old 21st Jun 2016, 13:07
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Danny haven't heard HMV for years. It was my nick-name for the owner/chief pilot of a little seaplane scenic business at Port Arthur in SE Tasmania.
Should not speak ill of the dead but he was far and away the worst case ever of raving on with an authority he did not possess. He never spoke with you . . . he intoned at you . . he subjected you to a parade ground barrage of this-I-believe. Still the subject of bad dreams (wife has no sympathy "oh you poor little hot house flower". . . gotta love a woman with balls even if she can rarely put herself in the picture . . or even care to try.)

The only story of his I can bear relating concerned his time as a fitter in the RAAF at the Catalina base Rathmines on Lake Macquarie near Newcastle where the base was in the throes of closing . . so around 1955. On friday evenings as men were getting ready to go into town they'd flog some juice to put in sundry bikes or cars . The way this went was fix bayonets stand on roof of car under wing of Cat with bucket. Thrust bayonet into wing tank . Try to catch the spoils without any spillage or slop to spoil your evening's chances.

thinking of lady's of a certain disposition there was one who flew the aircraft of a leading multi national company round Australia. She was a lovely person with quite a deep voice especially on the radio. Uncouth men in the ranks of GA referred to her as 'Bonny with balls'.

Last edited by Fantome; 21st Jun 2016 at 13:43.
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 13:53
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Fantome,

Makes sense (so long as the Cat never to be used again !). Have just had to part with faithful old Seat Toledo. Seventeen years young, looked and ran like new - except that top gear in autobox had just gone AWOL. Even to have a look at it would cost more than car was worth.

Went for scrap a fortnight ago (broken up for parts, I suppose, before hulk crushed). Nearly new tyres and a tank full of petrol. Now who would get that, do you suppose ?

Time to hang up our driving gloves for good (Mrs D, and I). 77 years clean licence (62 for her). Ah well (daughter has retired from NHS, bought house three doors away, will ferry us around).

End of an era !

Danny.

Last edited by Danny42C; 22nd Jun 2016 at 09:42. Reason: TYPO.
 
Old 21st Jun 2016, 14:46
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Danny how good you can go to your keyboard and give us a poignant whiff of the loss of mobility and what a wrench it must be to have to swallow this virtual grounding. Age and loss of privilege . . . every case is different and most cases have a common thread.
The fact that your mind is very much alive has been shown here right from the first day you tripped onto the PP stage ready for anything the crowd . . including the silent majority . . might dish up in response.

From an antipodean angle . . for every one of your anecdotes there are a similar number told and sadly not told lodged in men and womens' grey stuff all round Australia . A sense of history. . .a sense of belonging to a culture an ethos and at root the human race . . that is the cement that holds the mosaic in place. You have carried a brilliant torch and continue to do so. Tend that flame, Sir. .
..and "always look on the bright side of life .. "
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 15:02
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There was a Constellation freighter that made a spectacular arrival at Belize Airport. No 1 prop o/speed and the engine caught fire, the prop went into No2 which stopped suddenly, broke the top engine mounting and descended into and jammed the port undercarriage. It landed on the nosewheel and starboard mainwheel before slewing into the grass. Nobody hurt and there was no further danger.

This was during the stand off between Guatemala and Belize and there were considerable British armed forces there in including Harriers and Pumas. There was an anti-aircraft presence and the airport was secured by the Army and the RAF Regiment.

Despite that the aircraft evaporated until there was just two engines and their propellers left.
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 15:47
  #8771 (permalink)  
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"It's bein' so cheerful as keeps us goin' "

Fantome,
...and "always look on the bright side of life ... "
Agreed - and the Title above expresses the spirit of the Dunkirk Generation. "Mrs Mopp" was probably well before your time, but Wiki knows all about it.

This Thread has been my hobby ever since the day six years ago, when my daughter brought her laptop home and showed me how to play with it.

It is encouraging to see our "Crewroom in Cyberspace" going full blast again. One day it will fade away (as all old soldiers must) but not yet, I hope.

Danny.
 
Old 21st Jun 2016, 18:42
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now that was A Connie in Belize that would not give in easily.

Somewhere in James Sinclair's marvellous history of aviation in PNG 1920 -1939 WINGS OF GOLD there is an account of one of Guinea Airways Junkers
throwing a prop blade on take-off down the steep grass strip at Bulolo or Wau.
The engine parted company as the pilot hauling on the anchors kept pace with this independently minded power plant till they came to a stop at the far end of the strip.

If I had not lent my copy I'd copy out the account as it is much more colourful and dramatic than the above.
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 18:58
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Originally Posted by Danny42C
It is encouraging to see our "Crewroom in Cyberspace" going full blast again. One day it will fade away (as all old soldiers must) but not yet, I hope.
Never forget that the Old Farts will be replaced by Middle-Aged Farts, and Young Farts, and so on ad infinitum

On 5 Jun 08, cliffnemo in his 93rd year laid a foundation stone by starting this Thread of Threads. As some depart to the Great Blue Yonder, others will meander into the Cyber Crew Room for a coffee and a chat.

WIWOLs will thrust, of course, as will many others. Hopefully a decade or three from now they will be deriding the Tucano/Hawk regime, and saying how easy it was to go straight onto the F-35 from Cranwell and a Simulator!
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 01:50
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could the character with the aldis at Thornhill be flashing -

THREE DITS . .. FOUR DITS . .. TWO DITS. .. .DAH ?
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 09:51
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Fantome,

Recalls my ITW days at Newquay. One party at top of cliff with their Aldis. Second party on sands with theirs.

Exchange of signals: "FOCUS"......."WOT - ALL OF US" ?

Danny.
 
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 12:21
  #8776 (permalink)  
Danny42C
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Chugalug,

We are so deep in the mire on this now, that I thought it would help if I appended a copy of the consecutive messages (some failed) exchanged between us so far. First thank you for the detailed instruction on the Vital Actions to be taken when my PM Inbox is nearing 100%. You had explained all this me this years ago, and I've been doing it ever since on my PM Inbox. Getting cheesed off with the trouble involved, and heartened by Wee Jeem's gmail to me recently, and seeing how easy it was, and that there is no limit to worry about, I decided to try it out on a message to you. It doesn't seem to have worked too well !)

If you are "on frequency" here, you may recall your p.117 #2338 of four years ago.
...Danny, you have the devastating authority of an Antiques Roadshow expert disillusioning the proud owner of an objet d'art! So other than the T&S and Altimeter my prized fully instrumented panel is basically a fake? Oh, the embarrassment and the shame of it all! I suppose to be fair to Mr Daniel, he did say that all the Flight Instruments are genuinely of WWII vintage, rather than genuinely out of PT-17's. Sort of a "They're all the right instruments, Sunshine, though not necessarily in the right place!". At least if it appears on ebay we will be forewarned...
I then put in (#8778):

Here is the genuine article (pity the lower half is obscured by the modern 'gubbins', but you get the idea !)

Source:
From megan,
PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Private Flying>Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)>Page 17. #323> link.

Does even the shape agree with your "specimen" ?

Cheers, Danny.



EDIT: I should have included the caption to the picture above:
...Cockpit of 1940s era biplane, with modern addition of satellite navigation...
I assumed from the context that it was a Stearman. But the panel shown incorporates a manifold pressure gauge as well as an RPM indicator. If the prop was either fixed or two-position, you would not need a manifold pressure. So it's a constant-speed prop. AFAIK, no Stearman (or any other "1940s era biplane" would have a CSU). So it's a Stearman (or whatever) with modern instruments and a Constant-Speed Prop.

Should've noticed that before !

D.

RECORD OF MESSAGES EXCHANGED BY CHUGALUG2 and DANNY42C

Chugal[email protected] 23.6.16 09.56

#####,

Salutations to my revered Mentor !
This is just to let you know that I've stumbled on a pic of pukka 1942 Stearman instrument panel and Posted it yesterday on "Pilot's Brevet" Thread, which has recently sprung to life again after some time in the doldrums.
Of course, in my rear cockpit the ASI would have been taken out. Can't remember any blank holes, though. Perhaps they put something else in - a clock, perhaps ?
I am doing this as a PPRuNe email as my PM bunged up (although I use the method you told me - copy to a Desktop file and then delete). You do not need to answer it in any way - it's just a pointer.
Regards,******
............................................

To; [email protected] 23rd Jun 2016 15.14

######,
Your PPRuNemail came in at 0942 (?) but inbox says "Error - cannot read". No idea what to do. Suggest you just acknowledge briefly on open Post on "Pilot's Brevet" as easiest way, but only if you wish.
Cheers, ******
............................................................ .
To: [email protected] 23.6.16. 1707

######,
Yours of 1451 came in - same again ! There's a jinx on this. Never mind, give up on this. Just look in on "Pilot's Brevet" if you wish.
******.
............................................................ ..

Private Message: Re: Stearman Instrument Panel.
24th Jun 2016, 23:34
Chugalug2

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Re: Stearman Instrument Panel.
Hello *******,
Sorry to hear that you are having trouble with disappearing entries in your inbox. Not sure if you mean emails or PPRuNe PMs, as you say you can fall back on PM's anyway. If emails, I'd need to know which email system that you use, ie Internet Explorer, gmail, virginmail, etc. Whichever system it is, I suspect that your missing emails are somewhere, and can be recovered. If it is PM's and you haven't deleted them, then again they should be there somewhere, though there is a limit to PMs (150 I think), and then the system won't accept anymore into your inbox. If that is the case you won't see this one, so if you can then that isn't the case either.
I'll await an answer to this and then we can take it from there.
Very best wishes,
#####

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny42C
#####,
This is no good ! Trouble may well be at my end, as now all entries in my inbox after 17 June have disappeared (and I certainly haven't deleted them).
A week or two ago a PPRuNemail from Wee Jeem came in all right, so the system has worked.
Never mind, fall back on PMs. It was just a pointer to the pic I'd found and put in on "Pilot's Brevet" anyway. No need to answer this, Robin.
Cheers, ******.
--------------------------------------
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Old 25th Jun 2016, 10:22
#8795 (permalink)
Chugalug2

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Apologies to all for an intrusion of a purely administrative nature. Hopefully I can keep it brief!
Danny, you sent me a PM saying that you are missing messages from your inbox that you haven't deleted. If I have this right then the only explanation that I can think of is that your PMs (sent, received, saved) have topped out at 150 (the max allowed). The total should show when you go to inbox.
If that is the case I suggest that you open a new file in My Docs called "PPRuNe PMs" or some such (Right click to create a new file).
Then go to your inbox where there is a section called "Older Messages" with a total (let's say 100) and a tick box next to it.
If you tick that box and then scroll to the bottom of the page you will find a menu for "Selected Messages".
I suggest "Download as text", then "Go", and the 100 messages will produce a text document of them all which you can select under "file" as "Save As".
Put a number like 001 at the end of the title you give it, and navigate the box above to My Docs, PPRuNe PMs (etc), and click Save.
Your older messages are now stored in that folder and can then be deleted en-bloc from your PMs with the same drop down menu at the bottom of the page but this time selecting Delete, thus reducing your content to 50 in our example. You should then receive new PMs.
Apologies if I misunderstood your PM, but I replied to no effect, hence my assumption that your inbox is full.
Hope all that helps. Apologies again to one and all.
"Bugler, sound the Carry-On!

Last edited by Danny42C; 25th Jun 2016 at 14:18. Reason: Addn. Text.
 
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 15:31
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Danny

The vast topic of signals . . one of which I know SFA. . . . is riddled with anecdotes. The speed at which a signaller could work his lamp or make his morse key dance stuns the imagination. How warships could semaphore crucial messages in the heat of battle with the speed of summer lightning !
Those wartime B & W J Arthur Rank movies with battleships moving into position as the signallers winked to each other at speed.!

About ten years ago an Australian TV channel organised a speed test between a Second World War RAAF vet sigs man and a sixteen year old who was incredibly fast on the keyboard. Each had the same two hundred word simple message to send for the exercise. The old hand on the morse key finished ten seconds in front of the youngster .

There were stories current once of POWs locked in cells with a common masonry wall. By tapping on the wall with a boot heel or anything else to hand for the purpose . .. if the two prisoners were skilled morse men they could communicate.

It was also said that if you had the touch and the ear you could get the 'accent' of the man transmitting and hence twig to his identity.
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 16:02
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Danny yours back at #2331 -

They issued each of us with a little, amusing booklet of helpful tips and advice
for our flying training (oh, why didn't I hang on to mine - and also to the wonderfully funny "Tee Emms" - RAF training magazines - we had during the War?) * Many an octo/nonagenarian would love to read once more of the misdeeds of Pilot Officer Prune, navigator Flying Officer Fix, signaller Sgt Backtune, disreputable dog "Binder", Air Commodore Byplane-Ffixpitch and all the rest of that glorious crew - surely stationed at Much-Binding-in-the-Marsh or somewhere very like it.
There was a booklet of clever cartoons issued to Mossie pilots during the war. It probably ran to several printings or editions in England Canada and Australia. I was shown a copy a long time ago by the late Merv Waghorn who came out from Hatfield to Bankstown in Sydney to de Havillands to assist with the Australian production of the Mossie.
The idea was to try to instil some of the key advices towards ensuing not too many losses in training. There were some thirty sketches by a well known cartoonist. Certainly not Chris Wren whom no one could ever forget who was half familiar with his work. (I met him one memorable day. He sat in the front R/H pilot's seat from Alice Springs to Victoria River Downs in a Beechcraft Queenair of Connair . . formerly Connellan Airways .. . . and if you want to see Eddie Connellan in a movie watch the last ten minutes of A TOWN LIKE ALICE where Eddie in a Rapide meets the TAA DC-3. carrying the Peter Finch character. If only I had kept notes . Chris chatted on for a good two hours running forward and back over a wide field of endeavour. His stories were as brilliant as his illustrative work.)

So this booklet was illustrated by an artist with a pen name like WEG or WEP
There's a Mossie in flight coming head on with both props stopped . .the caption - NEVER FEATHER BOTH TOGETHER

(unless your name is Bob Hoover)
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 16:07
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if you had the ear you could get the 'accent' of the man transmitting and hence twig to his identity
In a past life I was a signaller in the Rhodesian Army and Fantome is right. Accomplished morse signallers could be recognised by their 'hand' and if you worked with one, say, at Battalion level his rhythm would be such that you could write down words without assessing each letter.

I had difficulty in reading Pundits because they were too slow, the same with Consol and NDB.
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 17:09
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In Lesley Hazleton's THE FIRST MUSLIM she ponders the task and the dilemmas of the serious biographer; in the context of Muhammad's life.

Danny might modestly refute this out of hand but what he has done in terms of writing pieces of his life into this forum accords closely with what Lesley Hazleton means when she refers to the essential task of the biographer -

"To answer such questions requires exerting the biographer’s privilege and real purpose, which is not merely to follow what happened but to uncover the meaning and relevance within the welter of events."

And incidentally, should this reference to the life of Muhammad excite anyone's interest, it is a brilliant book. "How did the man hounded out of Mecca turn exile into a new and victorious beginning, to be welcomed back just eight years later as a national hero? How did he succeed against such odds? To answer such questions requires exerting the biographer’s privilege and real purpose, which is not merely to follow what happened but to uncover the meaning and relevance within the welter of events. It means weaving together the complex elements of Muhammad’s life, creating a three-dimensional portrait not so much at odds with the “authorised” version as expanding it."

Last edited by Fantome; 22nd Jun 2016 at 18:19.
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