Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's a coincidence.
Just this week was at a christmas party and met a very sprightly 90 year old Jack who in 1943 was part way through a mechanical apprenticeship when he met an old school chum who was flashing the dosh around a bit. Mate got a fiver or something for joining the TA. Jack thought this joining up malarkey sounded pretty good, and because of his apprentice time was selected as Flight Engineer material in the RAF. Had an eyesight issue that precluded pilot so went off to do his FE training.
Way it worked was when you arrived you went alternate week to Bomber Command then Coastal Command then Bomber Command and so on. He was lucky and ended up in CC and spent 1943-45 flying B-24 out of various places doing convoy protection and U-boat hunting. Mainly based in Northern Ireland. Very interesting stories.
Good to meet another one in excellent health and mind. Suggested he have a look at PPRUNE.
Just this week was at a christmas party and met a very sprightly 90 year old Jack who in 1943 was part way through a mechanical apprenticeship when he met an old school chum who was flashing the dosh around a bit. Mate got a fiver or something for joining the TA. Jack thought this joining up malarkey sounded pretty good, and because of his apprentice time was selected as Flight Engineer material in the RAF. Had an eyesight issue that precluded pilot so went off to do his FE training.
Way it worked was when you arrived you went alternate week to Bomber Command then Coastal Command then Bomber Command and so on. He was lucky and ended up in CC and spent 1943-45 flying B-24 out of various places doing convoy protection and U-boat hunting. Mainly based in Northern Ireland. Very interesting stories.
Good to meet another one in excellent health and mind. Suggested he have a look at PPRUNE.
Ulm (Bavaria).
To start the engine, first it must be rotated to a speed sufficient to allow continuous combustion of the fuel. This is accomplished with cartridges, external air start, or electric motor.
It was a Riedel flat twin two-stroke, permanently mounted I believe.
Went with the Messerschmitt Club (bubble car that is) to visit WingCo. Wallis some years back. He showed us all his collection and it included some of these engines.
Told us he'd adapted one early post war to drive a small motor boat - as you may know he was into all things speedy.
mike hallam.
Went with the Messerschmitt Club (bubble car that is) to visit WingCo. Wallis some years back. He showed us all his collection and it included some of these engines.
Told us he'd adapted one early post war to drive a small motor boat - as you may know he was into all things speedy.
mike hallam.
Last edited by mikehallam; 30th Dec 2013 at 15:52.
Told us he'd adapted one early post war to drive a small motor boat - as you may know he was into all things speedy.
Guest
Posts: n/a
MPN11,
Your #4904: This was particularly the case when there was a flurry of signals, and an escort would go racing off to investigate something suspicious which your aircraft had seen ! (and you grabbed your lifejacket just in case)......D.
BEagle,
Should've checked ! He said it was Bavaria. Calls to mind: "Bier aus Bavaria/Is gut fur Malaria/Is gut fur das Hexe/Und darum.....(forgotten the rest ! [mach'n wir Schluss ?])
I like your: 'Ich habe in Ulm, um Ulm und Ulm herum gebummelt' - hadn't heard that one...D.
Cheers, both, Danny.
Your #4904: This was particularly the case when there was a flurry of signals, and an escort would go racing off to investigate something suspicious which your aircraft had seen ! (and you grabbed your lifejacket just in case)......D.
BEagle,
Should've checked ! He said it was Bavaria. Calls to mind: "Bier aus Bavaria/Is gut fur Malaria/Is gut fur das Hexe/Und darum.....(forgotten the rest ! [mach'n wir Schluss ?])
I like your: 'Ich habe in Ulm, um Ulm und Ulm herum gebummelt' - hadn't heard that one...D.
Cheers, both, Danny.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Danny finds some strange things in Geilenkirchen.
Like all owners of new, shiny cars, I found washing the 403 a pleasure (that soon wears off). At the bottom of Bruton St. in GK, there was a row of garages (but we didn't have one, the car stood at the kerb outside the house in all weathers). And on the end of the row was an outside tap - but you had to buy the hose and connection yourself.
The hose was no problem; I measured the threaded outside diameter of the tap with infinite care - call it "x" mm - and went into town to an ironmonger. There I produced my bit of paper with "x" mm on it, half expecting a "Four Candles" situation to develop, as this was soon after our arrival and my technical German rudimentary.
But the man in the dust coat cottoned-on at once: "Ah, drei-viertel zoll" ("three-quarter inch !") said he, turned round, picked the item off the shelf and laid it on the counter ("3/4 Inch", it said on the box). How on earth did they come to be using Imperial Measures ? How far did it go ? (don't know).
On another occasion, I bought a small gold watch, with a Milanese pattern gold lace band, for Mrs D. The strap was about 5mm too long for her slender wrist, we left it with the jeweller to be shortened, and collected it a few days later. It now fitted perfectly, but to my surprise they handed over the tiny scrap of removed gold, carefully wrapped in tissue paper.
"Vielen Dank", I said, "but this is no use to me - it may be to you - keep it". They were genuinely horrified. "One day", they said, "this may be the price of a meal for you - you must take it." We keep it still.
Most Sundays, we heard Mass in the Camp RC chapel, but on one occasion we went to a church in GK, only to find a procedure which might have dated back to the Middle Ages. The congregation was divided: men and boys in the pews on the left side of the aisle, women and girls on the right. This was "enforced" by a Beadle, in an imposing cloak of office, and with a staff with a very substantial wooden ball on top.
He patrolled up and down the aisle, silently separating mixed groups of shocked newcomers by gently indicating with his staff. I suppose if he met actual resistence, the massive ball on top could spell the message out more firmly and secure compliance, but we didn't see it used. I do not know how wide these "segregation" practices were: in most of the churches we visited, the congregation all packed together as at home.
The first harbingers of the liturgical changes introduced by Vatican II had appeared: The Credo and Paternoster, hitherto intoned in Latin by the celebrant alone, were now said in German by the whole congregation.
One of our officers, an "Other Denominations" (Methodist I think), was friendly with a Lutheran Pastor in town. His friend approached him one day, rather perplexed. He had found this in his Collection Plate: it was plainly sterling - but what was it ? Our chap recognised it at once, it was a £1 "BAF" (made a change from trouser buttons, anyway).
These were "British Armed Forces Currency" notes - last isued in '48, IIRC - and up till then used to pay our troops so that they could buy from the NAAFI; (it was all they were allowed to take) and pay Mess bills, etc. In this way German civilians couldn't clear the NAAFI of our duty-free cigarettes, then make huge future profits (by stacking up with small valuable goods like Zeiss binoculars and Leica cameras for future resale), as cigarettes were then the sole currency in a ruined Germany (the Reichmark being almost valueless).
Some crafty British worshipper had palmed this useless scrap of obsolete paper onto the Pastor: our officer, realising what had happened, for very shame, gave the Pastor Dm 10 in exchange for the BAF (I hope he kept it - now collectors pay good money on e-bay for them).
A Happy New Year to all my readers !
Danny42C.
There's nowt so queer as folk.
The hose was no problem; I measured the threaded outside diameter of the tap with infinite care - call it "x" mm - and went into town to an ironmonger. There I produced my bit of paper with "x" mm on it, half expecting a "Four Candles" situation to develop, as this was soon after our arrival and my technical German rudimentary.
But the man in the dust coat cottoned-on at once: "Ah, drei-viertel zoll" ("three-quarter inch !") said he, turned round, picked the item off the shelf and laid it on the counter ("3/4 Inch", it said on the box). How on earth did they come to be using Imperial Measures ? How far did it go ? (don't know).
On another occasion, I bought a small gold watch, with a Milanese pattern gold lace band, for Mrs D. The strap was about 5mm too long for her slender wrist, we left it with the jeweller to be shortened, and collected it a few days later. It now fitted perfectly, but to my surprise they handed over the tiny scrap of removed gold, carefully wrapped in tissue paper.
"Vielen Dank", I said, "but this is no use to me - it may be to you - keep it". They were genuinely horrified. "One day", they said, "this may be the price of a meal for you - you must take it." We keep it still.
Most Sundays, we heard Mass in the Camp RC chapel, but on one occasion we went to a church in GK, only to find a procedure which might have dated back to the Middle Ages. The congregation was divided: men and boys in the pews on the left side of the aisle, women and girls on the right. This was "enforced" by a Beadle, in an imposing cloak of office, and with a staff with a very substantial wooden ball on top.
He patrolled up and down the aisle, silently separating mixed groups of shocked newcomers by gently indicating with his staff. I suppose if he met actual resistence, the massive ball on top could spell the message out more firmly and secure compliance, but we didn't see it used. I do not know how wide these "segregation" practices were: in most of the churches we visited, the congregation all packed together as at home.
The first harbingers of the liturgical changes introduced by Vatican II had appeared: The Credo and Paternoster, hitherto intoned in Latin by the celebrant alone, were now said in German by the whole congregation.
One of our officers, an "Other Denominations" (Methodist I think), was friendly with a Lutheran Pastor in town. His friend approached him one day, rather perplexed. He had found this in his Collection Plate: it was plainly sterling - but what was it ? Our chap recognised it at once, it was a £1 "BAF" (made a change from trouser buttons, anyway).
These were "British Armed Forces Currency" notes - last isued in '48, IIRC - and up till then used to pay our troops so that they could buy from the NAAFI; (it was all they were allowed to take) and pay Mess bills, etc. In this way German civilians couldn't clear the NAAFI of our duty-free cigarettes, then make huge future profits (by stacking up with small valuable goods like Zeiss binoculars and Leica cameras for future resale), as cigarettes were then the sole currency in a ruined Germany (the Reichmark being almost valueless).
Some crafty British worshipper had palmed this useless scrap of obsolete paper onto the Pastor: our officer, realising what had happened, for very shame, gave the Pastor Dm 10 in exchange for the BAF (I hope he kept it - now collectors pay good money on e-bay for them).
A Happy New Year to all my readers !
Danny42C.
There's nowt so queer as folk.
Last edited by Danny42C; 30th Dec 2013 at 00:51. Reason: Rearrange Text.
gave the Pastor Dm 10 in exchange for the BAF (I hope he kept it - now collectors pay good money on e-bay for them).
15 X MINT UNUSED MILITARY/ARMED FORCES BANKNOTES. | eBay
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Japan
Age: 71
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Imperial threads
Danny
Your Imperial threads have got a lot further from blighty than Germany. A few years ago I refurbed a mixing machine in my partner's factory. It is about 40-50 years old. I needed to replace some bolts, and my metric set weren't going to fit. After a little bit of investigation it turned out the machine was entirely Whitworth. I haven't met Whitworth since I gave up on British motorcycles in the late sixties. The bizarre part is they all have metric sized heads.
The building industry here is also standardised on Whitworth. I needed them when I replaced some guttering.
There's nowt so queer as folk.
Your Imperial threads have got a lot further from blighty than Germany. A few years ago I refurbed a mixing machine in my partner's factory. It is about 40-50 years old. I needed to replace some bolts, and my metric set weren't going to fit. After a little bit of investigation it turned out the machine was entirely Whitworth. I haven't met Whitworth since I gave up on British motorcycles in the late sixties. The bizarre part is they all have metric sized heads.
The building industry here is also standardised on Whitworth. I needed them when I replaced some guttering.
There's nowt so queer as folk.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,809
Received 135 Likes
on
63 Posts
My father worked in the hand tool business (sales management) and during school holidays I used to help him set up displays at wholesalers. I was therefore fully indoctrinated into the wonderful world of BA, Whit, Metric and AF. Indeed, I still have rolls of spanners (OE and Ring) covering most sizes and specifications from adjusting prosthetics on a spider to ... quite large things. 
I still have rolls of spanners (OE and Ring) covering most sizes
I also picked up a universal screwdriver when I was in the States. It's a shaped weight with a long handle on it.
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 30th Dec 2013 at 13:14.
A further morsel from my bottomless pit of useless information.
For some strange reason, BSP is the international standard for pipework (except in the USA) and despite galloping metrication there don't appear to be any moves afoot to replace it.
For some strange reason, BSP is the international standard for pipework (except in the USA) and despite galloping metrication there don't appear to be any moves afoot to replace it.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,809
Received 135 Likes
on
63 Posts
Originally Posted by FarEastDriver
So have I. It's a big spanner with a worm drive and wheel built into the business end.
I also picked up a comprehensive screwdriver when I was in the States. It's a shaped weight with a long handle on it.
I also picked up a comprehensive screwdriver when I was in the States. It's a shaped weight with a long handle on it.
My father used to spend an hour finding the exact size spanner, socket or screwdriver for a simple 5-minute task. I did not inherit his pedantry, just the tools
*ahem* I seem to have taken us a bit off-topic. Sorry, folks
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 59°09N 002°38W (IATA: SOY, ICAO: EGER)
Age: 80
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My late uncle was a turner/fitter at RAE Bedford and was of the opinion that metrication was encouraged by Guest, Keen & Nettlefold in order to produce a whole new batch of orders....
The convoys route around Ireland
The fall of France and the German acquisition of bases along the French coast forced British shipping to route from Liverpool and Scotland around the north coast of Ireland, which swiftly became a U-boat hunting ground. There are more liners on the seabed off Malin Head than anywhere else in the world, the victims of two World Wars, and Churchill wrote later that the U-boat threat worried him more than anything else.
The big difference between the two World Wars was the neutrality of Eire, which to this day refers to the 1939-1945 conflict as the Emergency. Saorstat Eireann, the Irish Free State, took no part in the war, and the thousands of Irishmen who enlisted and fought so bravely were blacklisted when they returned home, although earlier this year the Irish Government apologised to their families. Airmen who landed in Eire were interned, although Britons and Americans were released, usually with their aircraft if they were serviceable. The bodies of Service aircrew were retrieved by the Irish Army for handover with full military honours at the Border.
With Eire territory off limits, Northern Ireland became the key platform for the Battle of the Atlantic, Churchill saying later that he had always considered the U-boats as the greatest danger facing the country. British and Canadian escort vessels would turn around at the vast Londonderry naval base, and the RAF would patrol the convoy routes as far as aircraft range permitted. Air Marshal Harris would not release Lancasters and Halifaxes to Coastal Command, so there was a large gap in the middle of the Atlantic.
In the early days Coastal Command’s resources were limited, and Bomber Command concentrated on Germany. In 1940 Ansons and even Tiger Moths operated from Limavady, Ballykelly and Aldergrove airfields in Northern Ireland. However, U-boat commanders would dive at the first sight or sound of an aircraft, which even if unarmed might bring down the wrath of a patrolling destroyer. They would be severely restricted at three knots when submerged, against up to 15 knots on the surface. The flying boat bases on Lough Erne opened in 1941.
Later came war-weary Whitleys and Wellingtons, Hudsons, and eventually the U-boats’ nemesis, the Liberator, which closed the Atlantic gap. From Ballykelly, where the runway was extended over a railway level crossing to obtain the necessary length for the Libs, 120 Sqn became the top-scoring anti-sub squadron, working with the vast naval base at Londonderry some 20 miles away. But the early crews faced the weather and the Kriegsmarine in obsolescent aircraft with few aids to navigation.
The big difference between the two World Wars was the neutrality of Eire, which to this day refers to the 1939-1945 conflict as the Emergency. Saorstat Eireann, the Irish Free State, took no part in the war, and the thousands of Irishmen who enlisted and fought so bravely were blacklisted when they returned home, although earlier this year the Irish Government apologised to their families. Airmen who landed in Eire were interned, although Britons and Americans were released, usually with their aircraft if they were serviceable. The bodies of Service aircrew were retrieved by the Irish Army for handover with full military honours at the Border.
With Eire territory off limits, Northern Ireland became the key platform for the Battle of the Atlantic, Churchill saying later that he had always considered the U-boats as the greatest danger facing the country. British and Canadian escort vessels would turn around at the vast Londonderry naval base, and the RAF would patrol the convoy routes as far as aircraft range permitted. Air Marshal Harris would not release Lancasters and Halifaxes to Coastal Command, so there was a large gap in the middle of the Atlantic.
In the early days Coastal Command’s resources were limited, and Bomber Command concentrated on Germany. In 1940 Ansons and even Tiger Moths operated from Limavady, Ballykelly and Aldergrove airfields in Northern Ireland. However, U-boat commanders would dive at the first sight or sound of an aircraft, which even if unarmed might bring down the wrath of a patrolling destroyer. They would be severely restricted at three knots when submerged, against up to 15 knots on the surface. The flying boat bases on Lough Erne opened in 1941.
Later came war-weary Whitleys and Wellingtons, Hudsons, and eventually the U-boats’ nemesis, the Liberator, which closed the Atlantic gap. From Ballykelly, where the runway was extended over a railway level crossing to obtain the necessary length for the Libs, 120 Sqn became the top-scoring anti-sub squadron, working with the vast naval base at Londonderry some 20 miles away. But the early crews faced the weather and the Kriegsmarine in obsolescent aircraft with few aids to navigation.
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Kalgoorlie, W.A. , Australia
Age: 86
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Buy British!
My Thai mill manager told me the workshop foreman was complaining that the Japanese steel he was being supplied with was not as good as British steel. We eventually realised he was making his orders in imperial but was receiving the metric equivalent which was generally thinner.
Which reminds me of a sixties TV comedy "Never mind the quality just feel the width".
Which reminds me of a sixties TV comedy "Never mind the quality just feel the width".
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,809
Received 135 Likes
on
63 Posts
MPA ... my late father-in-law managed to wheedle his way out of a reserved occupation in WW2 to become a Nav on Sunderlands. Indeed, the one at Hendon (ML824) was 'his' aircraft (NS-Z) and he was invited to the unveiling.
Sadly it was brief flying career, and he was recalled to civvy street (being a civil engineer) to focus on "Rebuilding Britain" after only a year or so. Such irony - the family ended up living in a Pre-Fab for some years!
Sadly it was brief flying career, and he was recalled to civvy street (being a civil engineer) to focus on "Rebuilding Britain" after only a year or so. Such irony - the family ended up living in a Pre-Fab for some years!
Last edited by MPN11; 1st Jan 2014 at 10:39.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Divided Loyalties.
Geriaviator,
Your #4925 refers: gives me an opportunity to retell a tale I think I may have told long ago. (From "Readers Digest", IIRC).
On the ferry Holyhead/Dublin one wartime evening, an American reporter is enjoying a last cigarette; he is joined at the taffrail by an athletic young man in sports jacket and flannels. The newcomer's accent shows that he is going home. The following dialogue ensues:
"Why don't you people allow the British the use of your Channel Ports ?" ......"We hate the British"...... "But do you want Hitler to win this war ?" . ...."Of course not !"......"So what are you doing about it ?"......."I fly a Hurricane !"
Sort that one out !
Happy New Year to you all, Danny.
Your #4925 refers: gives me an opportunity to retell a tale I think I may have told long ago. (From "Readers Digest", IIRC).
On the ferry Holyhead/Dublin one wartime evening, an American reporter is enjoying a last cigarette; he is joined at the taffrail by an athletic young man in sports jacket and flannels. The newcomer's accent shows that he is going home. The following dialogue ensues:
"Why don't you people allow the British the use of your Channel Ports ?" ......"We hate the British"...... "But do you want Hitler to win this war ?" . ...."Of course not !"......"So what are you doing about it ?"......."I fly a Hurricane !"
Sort that one out !
Happy New Year to you all, Danny.