JPA and their appalling administrating
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Back in the 1990's, I was screwed, badly, by the admin system. Simply put, I was away for 6 months and rather than an overissue being taken back properly, it was all taken back in one go (2, actually) and as a result, my family was left with next to no money for 6 weeks. This of course, before the days of mobile phones and interweb. When I found out, I requested that I was reimbursed and that the overissue be taken back at more sympathetic levels. That was denied and my wife ran up some serious bank charges through no fault of her own. To cut a long story mercifully short, I summoned the stn cdr to the local small claims court. A day or two later, I received a phone call from his pa. Would I like to drop in, sometime soon? I had already sent him a memo telling him that with deep regret, I had no other course of action open to me. With trepidation I attended, and received an apology, and a very nice letter (Dear Cpl R, Thank you for the courtesy of giving me advance notice of your legal action against me.. ). I have it still, such politeness 
.
Anyway, it was all very civil. We agreed that I should drop the action if he sorted out the problem, pronto. He asked, with a furrowed brow, why I hadn't followed the chain. I told him that I had no faith in the chain to be impartial (I had a heavily moustached, 2 faced, spineless, stocky, black haired Scottish sqn cdr who wasn't worth the steam off..) and more importantly, its ability to address my concerns in a timely manner.
Either way, I got the result. The point here, is that Heli had no other option but to do what he did. Crown immunity is a right that will very quickly evaporate if we continue to entrust our values to the cocks that we seem to be doing. I despise the current mentality which seems to excuse shedding the philosophy of doing things better than anyone else or to the highest possible standard. Now it seems, we are content to do things as well as everyone else, because thats all we have to do, and after all.. there's safety in numbers. The sooner the RAF starts accepting that admin is a pivotal part of Battle Procedure, Management and Leadership, and the sooner we start sacking Wing Commanders and other middle ranking managers who are happy to allow this situation to continue, the sooner we'll start seeing an end to this disgraceful decline of standards that we are seemingly happy to expose our officers and airmen to, and which is causing a decline in retention.
Good Admin is vital. When will the powers that be wake up to that fact? Is it because FJ pilots within the upper echelon have never had to deal with real world people throughout their careers, and their exposure to them and their real world problems is subsequently minimal, and is it because admin types know they have to keep their aircrew lords and masters sweet, in order to progress??
. Anyway, it was all very civil. We agreed that I should drop the action if he sorted out the problem, pronto. He asked, with a furrowed brow, why I hadn't followed the chain. I told him that I had no faith in the chain to be impartial (I had a heavily moustached, 2 faced, spineless, stocky, black haired Scottish sqn cdr who wasn't worth the steam off..) and more importantly, its ability to address my concerns in a timely manner.
Either way, I got the result. The point here, is that Heli had no other option but to do what he did. Crown immunity is a right that will very quickly evaporate if we continue to entrust our values to the cocks that we seem to be doing. I despise the current mentality which seems to excuse shedding the philosophy of doing things better than anyone else or to the highest possible standard. Now it seems, we are content to do things as well as everyone else, because thats all we have to do, and after all.. there's safety in numbers. The sooner the RAF starts accepting that admin is a pivotal part of Battle Procedure, Management and Leadership, and the sooner we start sacking Wing Commanders and other middle ranking managers who are happy to allow this situation to continue, the sooner we'll start seeing an end to this disgraceful decline of standards that we are seemingly happy to expose our officers and airmen to, and which is causing a decline in retention.
Good Admin is vital. When will the powers that be wake up to that fact? Is it because FJ pilots within the upper echelon have never had to deal with real world people throughout their careers, and their exposure to them and their real world problems is subsequently minimal, and is it because admin types know they have to keep their aircrew lords and masters sweet, in order to progress??
Good Admin is vital. When will the powers that be wake up to that fact? Is it because FJ pilots within the upper echelon have never had to deal with real world people throughout their careers, and their exposure to them and their real world problems is subsequently minimal, and is it because admin types know they have to keep their aircrew lords and masters sweet, in order to progress??
Meanwhile HA well done. As has been said you are in the right and the MOD is in the wrong. That it will not do the decent thing merely proves my point, as does the fact that you are on your own! Where is your boss?
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A flt commander would sink or swim depending on his FS's grasp of admin, end of story. Its all about caring, genuinely caring, for your men and understanding that your success and your life depends on their happiness and ability to focus on doing their jobs. Its not rocket science, there's no need to have such crap as 'understanding strategies for coping with change' or the rest of it on the syllabus and we can forget this media handling boll
cks, this contrived sense of making leadership something that it isn't. Did Patton, Mad Mitch or the rest of them have any of that shte?
No.
I’m sitting here, the smell of cowsht eminating from my trainers, my body is steaming and I’m sweating like a pg after a short run. I focus on things that make me angry, to keep me going, these days. And what I’ve been thinking about is this entire business. The only thing that Heli did wrong was not call Torpy or Loader as witnesses. I would have done.. I would have stuck their sorry, well tailored arss on the stand and asked why they spent so much effort on bll**** pr stunts and not on paying their men. I would have asked him how much priority they gave to their men being on ops, thousands of miles from home and asking whether or not their minds weren’t on the job because they were worried about the mortgage being paid in time or not because a couple of incompetent 1 and 2 stars made a big career gambit out of suggesting that a few quid could be saved by employing a few unskilled moneys who'd work for peanuts and deliver accordingly.
How can men concentrate on active service if they have some admin fckwits back in the UK who can’t even be arsed to make sure they get paid properly? For the MoD to remotely rely on the defence (as forwarded by Heli) would be like them requesting permission to fall on their swords – they wouldn’t have the balls to do it in this day and age, and climate. The media would ask; what is the point of the g’ment suggesting to the country that we all honour this military covenant, when the damned MoD can’t even be arsed to do it. It is the defence of an organisation devoid of integrity and that knows the price of something, but the value of nothing. Every single sorry ared Air Member who had or who has anything to do with this disgraceful state of affairs shoul;d be court martialled, end of story.
We ask if the RAF will reach 100? Christ, I hope not. If Alzheimer’s has set in this bad at 90, god only knows how pitiful it’ll be at 100. And it’ll only have itself to blame. Lead by twonks who care only for themselves and their careers, its like Blackadder Goes Forth all over again. I'd sack the lot of them, I really would. If we ever needed a board of governers such as the BBC has, its now. One thing is clear, the future of the RAF is currently in unsafe hands and our most cherished and valuable assets, our men and women, are being treated with contempt. I despair, I really really do, when I think of this. I almost seethe with anger at how the cream of our population can be treated with such arrogant and dismissive indifference, and now I'm off for a wind down and a shower.
Please - whoever told the Telegraph about this, can you also tell BBC Watchdog. I long to see Torpy sitting in that chair (on a cushion) infront of the smarmy Nikki C.. 'So, your Air Generalship, how long has it been since you were happy with the level of administrative service your men have been getting, and how many times has YOUR pay been messed up?'.
Shot over.. shot out.
Al.
cks, this contrived sense of making leadership something that it isn't. Did Patton, Mad Mitch or the rest of them have any of that shte?No.
I’m sitting here, the smell of cowsh
t eminating from my trainers, my body is steaming and I’m sweating like a pg after a short run. I focus on things that make me angry, to keep me going, these days. And what I’ve been thinking about is this entire business. The only thing that Heli did wrong was not call Torpy or Loader as witnesses. I would have done.. I would have stuck their sorry, well tailored arss on the stand and asked why they spent so much effort on bll**** pr stunts and not on paying their men. I would have asked him how much priority they gave to their men being on ops, thousands of miles from home and asking whether or not their minds weren’t on the job because they were worried about the mortgage being paid in time or not because a couple of incompetent 1 and 2 stars made a big career gambit out of suggesting that a few quid could be saved by employing a few unskilled moneys who'd work for peanuts and deliver accordingly. How can men concentrate on active service if they have some admin f
ckwits back in the UK who can’t even be arsed to make sure they get paid properly? For the MoD to remotely rely on the defence (as forwarded by Heli) would be like them requesting permission to fall on their swords – they wouldn’t have the balls to do it in this day and age, and climate. The media would ask; what is the point of the g’ment suggesting to the country that we all honour this military covenant, when the damned MoD can’t even be arsed to do it. It is the defence of an organisation devoid of integrity and that knows the price of something, but the value of nothing. Every single sorry ared Air Member who had or who has anything to do with this disgraceful state of affairs shoul;d be court martialled, end of story.We ask if the RAF will reach 100? Christ, I hope not. If Alzheimer’s has set in this bad at 90, god only knows how pitiful it’ll be at 100. And it’ll only have itself to blame. Lead by twonks who care only for themselves and their careers, its like Blackadder Goes Forth all over again. I'd sack the lot of them, I really would. If we ever needed a board of governers such as the BBC has, its now. One thing is clear, the future of the RAF is currently in unsafe hands and our most cherished and valuable assets, our men and women, are being treated with contempt. I despair, I really really do, when I think of this. I almost seethe with anger at how the cream of our population can be treated with such arrogant and dismissive indifference, and now I'm off for a wind down and a shower.
Please - whoever told the Telegraph about this, can you also tell BBC Watchdog. I long to see Torpy sitting in that chair (on a cushion) infront of the smarmy Nikki C.. 'So, your Air Generalship, how long has it been since you were happy with the level of administrative service your men have been getting, and how many times has YOUR pay been messed up?'.
Shot over.. shot out.
Al.
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So, to those considering the small claims court route, I would council against it as it would appear it is the incorrect legal process and it may well cost you money.
Bottom line - you went to court because you were owed money, you got a judgement in your favour, end of story. The MoD is trying to wriggle out of it on a technicality and to scare people into not taking the same route. I don't see how it's possible for anybody to incur costs to themselves, since bringing a small claims court case is a one-off fee, and the judgement cannot possibly go against you as you are owed the money!
Letters like these are, I believe, referred to in legal circles as "Bluff and Bluster". If, as you say, the matter remains unresolved, I'd take them to court again, this time citing MoD as the defendent. It cannot possibly cost you more than the small claims court fee.
All the bollocks about 'proper procedures not being followed' is simply that - bollocks. You were owed money, they didn't pay it to you, you sued and the court agreed. Internal procedures of any body are irrelevant to the court.
It is painfully obvious that you have been leant on quite heavily to post what is effectively a retraction. Tell them to f**k off, pay you properly, and keep fighting until they do. You have both the legal and moral high ground. Ignore that letter - it is only a solicitor's opinion, and the only opinion that counts is the judge's - and you already have that.
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HA, good work fella, ignore the black Omega parked outside an sue em again. thry don't like it up 'em. What are they going to do send you to the glasshouse?? Let the tabloids get hold of that badger!
AL R Nice words.........
Duck for the incoming shower of something brown and smelly from MOD main building.
AL R Nice words.........
Duck for the incoming shower of something brown and smelly from MOD main building.
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Originally Posted by Al R
Its all about caring, genuinely caring, for your men and understanding that your success and your life depends on their happiness and ability to focus on doing their jobs. Its not rocket science, there's no need to have such crap as 'understanding strategies for coping with change' or the rest of it on the syllabus and we can forget this media handling bollcks, this contrived sense of making leadership something that it isn't. Did Patton, Mad Mitch or the rest of them have any of that shte?
cks, this contrived sense of making leadership something that it isn't. Did Patton, Mad Mitch or the rest of them have any of that shte?If they're going to have a crack at leadership, they also need to tackle selection and stopping the toadying, self-interested to$$ers that have infiltrated the Service from getting any higher! How about good old 2-week selection courses where people can be properly assessed and not slide upwards because of good/bad reports? We've already got much greater waste of time courses than one to properly select our future leaders.
At post #148, I asked HeliAviator:
Unfair I know, and I didn't really expect an answer, but the absence of any reference to bosses in this thread, other than Al R's dismissive mention of his, speaks volumes. I have raised this old canard before, but it is so fundamental that I feel compelled to rake over old ground yet again. The basic problem to my mind lies not in JPA, grossly inept though it obviously is, but in the lack of effective man (sorry, I'm old school) management in the modern RAF. If my flying pay had stopped dead, with no satisfaction from Stn Accts etc, I would have been knocking on my boss's door to sort it. He would have done so! Why? Because that was his bloody job! Why is it not a boss's job these days? If he is powerless to do so, then I'm sorry, but he isn't a boss! All this talk of 'contracts' is piffle. The only contract that counted was between you and your boss. You gave him your loyalty and maximum effort. In return he gave you support and protection to his maximum effort. I have been the recipient of such maximum effort, which in turn reinforced my loyalty and effort, and inspired others likewise. Replace that system with someone who merely passes everything up the line so that it disappears into oblivion, and I can't see the difference between the RAF and Tescos, except that one at least can look back to better days. If this all appears provocative, well guilty as charged. The real debate should be about the powers of subordinate commanders. The day that they were arbitrarily reduced was the day that the Armed Forces became uniformed departments of the MOD.
Where is your boss?
Unfair I know, and I didn't really expect an answer, but the absence of any reference to bosses in this thread, other than Al R's dismissive mention of his, speaks volumes. I have raised this old canard before, but it is so fundamental that I feel compelled to rake over old ground yet again. The basic problem to my mind lies not in JPA, grossly inept though it obviously is, but in the lack of effective man (sorry, I'm old school) management in the modern RAF. If my flying pay had stopped dead, with no satisfaction from Stn Accts etc, I would have been knocking on my boss's door to sort it. He would have done so! Why? Because that was his bloody job! Why is it not a boss's job these days? If he is powerless to do so, then I'm sorry, but he isn't a boss! All this talk of 'contracts' is piffle. The only contract that counted was between you and your boss. You gave him your loyalty and maximum effort. In return he gave you support and protection to his maximum effort. I have been the recipient of such maximum effort, which in turn reinforced my loyalty and effort, and inspired others likewise. Replace that system with someone who merely passes everything up the line so that it disappears into oblivion, and I can't see the difference between the RAF and Tescos, except that one at least can look back to better days. If this all appears provocative, well guilty as charged. The real debate should be about the powers of subordinate commanders. The day that they were arbitrarily reduced was the day that the Armed Forces became uniformed departments of the MOD.
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Some great and poignant stuff here - that nail has been hit on the head so many times on this page it's all the way into the wood now!
The crux of the problem isn't JPA itself - yes it's a user-unfriendly package that isn't anywhere near suited to our needs, but if it was just the software we had to deal with, we could make it work, after a fashion.
No, the REAL problem is one of accountability - in days gone by, the Chf Clk and OC Admin were responsible for ensuring that you were paid. More recently, it was PMA. Now, it seems that NOBODY is responsible - at least, nobody that you can directly reach or complain about - which is why all of that bollocks about going through the proper channels IS bollocks - there ARE no proper channels anymore! If the JPAC want to ignore you or treat your problem with contempt, they can quite easily do so, and there is ****-all you can do about it, apart from the route taken by HA.
Getting back to HA's "Naughty Boy" letter - it worrys me a great deal. For if what is contained therein is true (and I seriously doubt that particular solicitor's opinion is worth the steam off my poo, TBH) then MoD are under NO legal obligation to pay us AT ALL, and that CANNOT be the case.
Keep going HA - all the way to the Lords if you have to.
Alternatively, the sight of many uniformed protestors demonstrating outside the JPAC might focus their attention somewhat....
The crux of the problem isn't JPA itself - yes it's a user-unfriendly package that isn't anywhere near suited to our needs, but if it was just the software we had to deal with, we could make it work, after a fashion.
No, the REAL problem is one of accountability - in days gone by, the Chf Clk and OC Admin were responsible for ensuring that you were paid. More recently, it was PMA. Now, it seems that NOBODY is responsible - at least, nobody that you can directly reach or complain about - which is why all of that bollocks about going through the proper channels IS bollocks - there ARE no proper channels anymore! If the JPAC want to ignore you or treat your problem with contempt, they can quite easily do so, and there is ****-all you can do about it, apart from the route taken by HA.
Getting back to HA's "Naughty Boy" letter - it worrys me a great deal. For if what is contained therein is true (and I seriously doubt that particular solicitor's opinion is worth the steam off my poo, TBH) then MoD are under NO legal obligation to pay us AT ALL, and that CANNOT be the case.
Keep going HA - all the way to the Lords if you have to.
Alternatively, the sight of many uniformed protestors demonstrating outside the JPAC might focus their attention somewhat....
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I am totally bloody appalled after reading this thread.
I left the RAF some 12 years ago after 24 yrs and rarely make comment on the military fora, however……
Way back when I was doing IOT I recall an incident during our classroom Leadership Training. This involved the old Management By Objectives (MBO) stuff. There was a break and a Warrant Officer came into the class and said something along the lines of:
‘Load of feckin’ bullsh1t all this stuff. All you gotta remember about bein’ a leader is to:
1. Tell the guys clearly what is required
2. Listen to yer NCO
3. Make sure they are paid on time
4. Make sure they are fed
5. Make sure they have a roof over their heads
You do that an’ they’ll think yer Lord bloody Nelson.’
Advice that stood me in pretty good stead.
Looks like some old wisdom has been lost.
I left the RAF some 12 years ago after 24 yrs and rarely make comment on the military fora, however……
Way back when I was doing IOT I recall an incident during our classroom Leadership Training. This involved the old Management By Objectives (MBO) stuff. There was a break and a Warrant Officer came into the class and said something along the lines of:
‘Load of feckin’ bullsh1t all this stuff. All you gotta remember about bein’ a leader is to:
1. Tell the guys clearly what is required
2. Listen to yer NCO
3. Make sure they are paid on time
4. Make sure they are fed
5. Make sure they have a roof over their heads
You do that an’ they’ll think yer Lord bloody Nelson.’
Advice that stood me in pretty good stead.
Looks like some old wisdom has been lost.
Last edited by larssnowpharter; 12th Feb 2008 at 05:24.
Chug 2,
You are entirely right to focus on the word "boss".
When I emerged from training all those years ago and reached my first squadron we had a cracking boss who had all the leadership qualities that seem to be so sadly lacking in today's budget holders and managers. He knew everyone from the most junior LAC to his flight commanders, their names, their family situations and their problems. He set a fine example and he would fight anyone's corner if he believed it was right. In return, his squadron would jump through hoops for him.
That was well over 30 years ago, yet when I occasionally see him at a reunion I still call him "boss". Why? because any other form of address would seem inappropriate. He will always be the boss.
What ever happened to men like that?
You are entirely right to focus on the word "boss".
When I emerged from training all those years ago and reached my first squadron we had a cracking boss who had all the leadership qualities that seem to be so sadly lacking in today's budget holders and managers. He knew everyone from the most junior LAC to his flight commanders, their names, their family situations and their problems. He set a fine example and he would fight anyone's corner if he believed it was right. In return, his squadron would jump through hoops for him.
That was well over 30 years ago, yet when I occasionally see him at a reunion I still call him "boss". Why? because any other form of address would seem inappropriate. He will always be the boss.
What ever happened to men like that?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
We had one like that, and he wasn't even my boss.
Dining In night, Mrs PN needed me home asap. The SDO hadn't got the gumption to pass a note through the Mess Manager. When the dinner broke up the barman took a call and tried to find me.
The 'boss' said I know where he is and came and broke the news. My own boss? His eyes were too focused and it was very dark where he was.
Dining In night, Mrs PN needed me home asap. The SDO hadn't got the gumption to pass a note through the Mess Manager. When the dinner broke up the barman took a call and tried to find me.
The 'boss' said I know where he is and came and broke the news. My own boss? His eyes were too focused and it was very dark where he was.
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A limited transcript of the correspondence is posted at www.heliaviator.co.uk and this explains the situation pertaining to the matter.
Defendant: Secretary of State for Defence
Defendant's address:
C/O The Treasury Solicitor's Department
One Kemble Street
London
WC2B 4TS
Just because one cannot sue under contract does not mean there is NO cause of action. The great thing about the law is there is always more than one way to skin a cat. An obvious alternative is 'Unjust enrichment'. ie they are enriched by keeping money that is rightfully yours. A side benefit of that route is that compound rather than simple interest is available to claimants.
Anyone considering legal action should have a read of the Civil Procedure Rules CPR and County Court Rules CCR http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/proc...enus/rules.htm
These are the court system's manuals. As with everything in life RTFM applies, in particular:
CPR 27 'The Small Claims Track' (For claims upto £5,000)
and
CPR 66 'Crown Proceedings'
As always anyone considering legal action should consult a solicitor - making sure that they have some experience of dealing with the military, so are aware of the unusual features of being a member of the armed forces.
I bet that someone in the MoD is absolutely wetting themselves at the moment. If the threat-o-gram to HA doesn't work I expect the next claimant will find they are up against a heavyweight legal team. But remember on the small claims track you are not liable for the other sides costs if you lose - unless you behave unreasonably as defined in CPR part 27.
HTH
EG
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Strikes me that the phrase, "opened up the floodgates" has spooked the MoD. It costs fifty quid to try it, I say, crack on and let's get a 2nd case in court.
HA, as ever, hats off to you sir, if I can help in any way, don't hesitate.
HA, as ever, hats off to you sir, if I can help in any way, don't hesitate.
Last edited by nigegilb; 13th Feb 2008 at 20:11.
In Praise of Bosses
- First tour Changi 63/66 (it was hell, but someone had to do it!). Boss not only i/c aircrew (6 man crews) but groundcrew also (1st line servicing). Chiefies complain no NAAFI wagon for nightshift. NAAFI manager confirms as not profitable. Boss says then he’ll go elsewhere, manager reminds him of NAAFI monopoly on MOD property, boss reminds him that operational efficiency of Sqn depends on groundcrew, and they depended on NAAFI wagon! Boss gets Stn Cdrs support, negotiates with local contractor, agrees rates for bacon butties, chocolate milk, etc, etc, all public costs (water, heat, rent etc), sub to Sqn Fund, remainder his. NAAFI manager apoplectic, seeks backing from Whitehall Uberfuhrer who sends out emissaries. Boss and Stn Cdr stand firm. Local contractor remains with Sqn for approx 3 years until it is stood down prior to base closure.
- Import wife from far off land, place her in MQ in rural Wiltshire and fly off on various gruelling trainers (they were hell, but someone had to fly them!). While inbound on one and staging Lajes receive signal; “ Regret to inform you Father in Law dead, wife en-route xxxx, will meet you on return, regards Boss”. He is first on board on arr LYN; “Did you get my signal?”, ‘Yes Boss’, “and is it OK?”, as he feared I would resent wife being re-exported to said far off land! He had received call at OChundred from duty snowdrop at our dormitory station serving LYN. “Very upset wife of your Flt Lt Chug here Sir, she has received a telegram from her brother saying that their father has died. She wants to fly to MIA to meet her brother and fly on to xxxx. Boss speaks to wife, calms her down, confirms her tale, tells her to get packed and he is on his way. Phones BN and arranges compo on Washington VC10, drives mini to our place, bundles wife and bag into car, proceeds at alarming speed to BN streaming yellow a/f flag, rushes her thru check in up stairs into moon-rocket, last aboard doors close behind her, boss waves bye bye! Rushes back to sqn (who are wondering where he has got to), sends signal to BDLS requesting Mrs Chug be met and taken to other Washington a/p (name escapes me) to fly on pre booked (by brother) flight to MIA to meet him. Subsequently confirms that all this is so. Signals me and then worries about my reaction!
- Grateful response some months later was to PVR (as positively told that all my flying was now behind me). Formal Official wings its way past boss and Stn Cdr and ever upwards. Wait with trepidation, eventually told to report to P2 MOD London. Thoughts of Spanish Inquisition on way there, only to find it is yet another boss (now Gp Capt). He sees my letter and, though his remit is Wg Cdrs and above says” That’s one of my guys, I want to find out from him what this is about”. I explain situation, he says fair enough, that he wanted to make sure that I wasn’t going out under some black or other. PVR goes through.
- Three stories (I could tell others but enough I hear you say), three good bosses. My point is that, as 1.3VStall and Pontius Navigator show above, this was not that unusual. Of course there were crap bosses, but they were shown up for what they were by the likes of those above. My question; is it the same today?
NO!!!
Ok, if you want the long answer, generally no, very, very occasionally yes!! Many a 'boss' these days is an out and out career animal, and won't stick his neck out for his troops in case it has an adverse impact on his promotion prospects!!
Ok, if you want the long answer, generally no, very, very occasionally yes!! Many a 'boss' these days is an out and out career animal, and won't stick his neck out for his troops in case it has an adverse impact on his promotion prospects!!
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CPR 27 'The Small Claims Track' (For claims upto £5,000)
and
CPR 66 'Crown Proceedings'
and
CPR 66 'Crown Proceedings'
Gist of it is, there are certain Civil Proceedings Rules that do not apply if the Crown is a defendant or applicant in a civil case - in particular, rules regarding enforcement orders. It would appear that you cannot send bailiffs round to MoD to enforce a judgement, nor can you have them commited fo non-compliance.
It DOESN'T say explicitly that you CANNOT have an enforcement order made against the crown - unless I have misread. Quite how an order could be enforced without bailiffs is unclear, though.
It also DOESN'T say that you cannot take the crown to the Small Claims Court. HA, I would like to know exactly which part of the law was quoted to convince you that "the small claim court is not the legal method to proceeding when all other paths fail", and who on earth thinks this.
Also, since you cannot be made liable for the other side's costs (unless you commit 'unreasonable behaviour'), it CANNOT involve 'significant costs' for you. If MoD want to hire legal heavy-hitters to contest an order, it may well incur significant costs to THEM - and the last time I looked, it was MoD policy not to contest claims and the like where the legal costs would outweigh any benefit of not paying up.
So, HA, it seems that your friendly letter-writing MoD solicitor WAS talking utter bollox. To you, and others, I'd say ignore that erroneous (in part) letter and KEEP FIGHTING!
Last edited by TheInquisitor; 13th Feb 2008 at 04:01. Reason: grammer and spelingg
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I wonder if The Telegraph has seen the MoD's position and has had it evaluated by its own counsel. Lets add corporate intimidation to the mix eh? I know its easy for us to say, but chin up and keep going Heli. Ultimately, the MoD shinyarse, paperclip counting, potplant appreciating, back watching desk johnies who aren't even capable of getting a payroll right aren't worth the collective steam off a crew's poo after 2 weeks on compo. You have right on your side - the right to be paid what they told you that you'd be paid.
Somone needs to tell CAS that loyalty is a two way street. Shame on him for allowing this sort of thing to happen on his watch and doing nothing about it. The interweb has cast a completely different light on what is required of leadership - what used to be obscured by the fog of poor comms and an inability to see the bigger picture is now beautiful in all its clarity. We need leaders who can respond to that. Leadership is a crock of sh*t if all it is is someone in an office ticking boxes. The true test of leadership is how a leader is perceived and whether the troops have faith in it.
These people don't live in the real world - they just briefly open the windows to sniff the air en route to the rarified atmosphere of their lofty offices. One of the performance indicators at Witt used to be Admin Wing churning out stats concerning the amount of people getting charged. This, it was believed, related to morale and performance. Hell - the best performing, most professional.. most bouyant sqn I ever served on, always used to have 2 or 3 gnrs locked up at any one time.
If the Oz g'ment can publically address the issue and subsequently apologise to the abos..
Somone needs to tell CAS that loyalty is a two way street. Shame on him for allowing this sort of thing to happen on his watch and doing nothing about it. The interweb has cast a completely different light on what is required of leadership - what used to be obscured by the fog of poor comms and an inability to see the bigger picture is now beautiful in all its clarity. We need leaders who can respond to that. Leadership is a crock of sh*t if all it is is someone in an office ticking boxes. The true test of leadership is how a leader is perceived and whether the troops have faith in it.
These people don't live in the real world - they just briefly open the windows to sniff the air en route to the rarified atmosphere of their lofty offices. One of the performance indicators at Witt used to be Admin Wing churning out stats concerning the amount of people getting charged. This, it was believed, related to morale and performance. Hell - the best performing, most professional.. most bouyant sqn I ever served on, always used to have 2 or 3 gnrs locked up at any one time.
If the Oz g'ment can publically address the issue and subsequently apologise to the abos..
Thank you Biggus for your succinct reply to my question, ie NO!!! You at least concede that there are some good bosses still, albeit very few, but no-one further sees fit to commend theirs in the way that I did mine. I know I am yet another BOF boring away about the good old days and best thus ignored, but I would remind you all that the system as I described was a two way deal, ie you gave the boss maximum support and he did the same for you. Could it be that any boss who tries to fulfil his part of the deal is reneged on by a bunch of self centred ingrates, and thus sees it as not worth the candle? Almost certainly all three bosses in my story would have been required to justify their actions to some degree or another. They did what they did because it was their responsibility to do so in their minds, the aftermath would have to be sorted out later. When I came out of the RAF into the civilian world the culture shock was profound as I was now truly on my own. Today I imagine that adjustment is scarcely noticeable as you move from one me world to another. That may reflect the modern world, which I am in but not a part of, but does not reflect the British military ethos which is far older than the RAF. We mess with it at our peril. My advice? Support your bosses to the hilt and go to them with every financial, career, family, accommodation worry that you cannot resolve, but they might. Resume the age old compact. Those that respond will be encouraged by your faith in them, those that don't will be seen by their inaction to be unfit to command. They repeat the effort on the staish, same outcomes. Slowly the broken CoC can be repaired. No power to do anything? Neither had my Changi boss or the staish, that didn't stop them and they prevailed, all it needs is "caring, genuine caring" as Al R rightly says. Its time that the caring resumed!