JPA and their appalling administrating
Just beating the air into submission!
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JPA and their appalling administrating
First the appology, I know you have heard it all before but, I feel the the appalling administation of JPAC, Kentigern House, Glasgow needs to be aired again.
For seven mouths now I have attempted to get the incompetent, unfit for purpose staff of JPAC Glasgow to correctly pay me what I am owed.
On 1 July 07 my flying pay changed from Enhanced to Spec Aircrew, the correct competencies were entered into my JPA profile and then its a simple task to stop one rate and pay the other. The wonderful and caring (sic) personnel at JPAC have managed to withdraw all flying pay since June and refuse to make any head way in restoring what they owe me.
The usual round of I-supports, telephone calls, letters have all been ignored as has the letter of complaint to the Customer Services Department. These people never telephone you back, email you or atttempt to contact you in any way. I have left three telephone nunbers and two email addresses, plus my military and civil addresses by which they could contact me. The whole matter to date has consumed over 60 hours of my time, time that could be well spent doing what I'm paid for - when they eventually pay me correctly.
On 20 Decmber I issued a Small Claims Court Writ to JPAC to sue for the outstanding pay owed, plus interest, plus court fees. The 10th January was the deadline for them to respond, passed and I now have a request for a judgement to be made on the case. Should I win a legal request will be made to pay me what I'm owed immediately, including interest and court fees. The bad news is that this judgement is not enforceable in Scotland (perhaps this is why the main office is based there). However, Small Claims Courts are open courts and the details can be made public with whatever media interest that may generate. Also the debt can be sold to a Scottish Debt Collection agency for collection, they then can add their own fee as they see fit.
I am sure that I am the tip of the iceberg, and there are many hundreds if not thousands receiving a poor service form JPAC to a greater or lesser degree that myself. Its time that this inefficient and uncaring administration service was porperly audited and restructured to give at least a basic system where problems can be resloved within a set time frame.
I will keep you posted on the outcome. No doubt there will be some flack coming my way for airing this, but hey I aint going to be promoted further anyway, and with my time left to do I don't really care as long as get the pay that's owed to me in a suitale time scale.
For seven mouths now I have attempted to get the incompetent, unfit for purpose staff of JPAC Glasgow to correctly pay me what I am owed.
On 1 July 07 my flying pay changed from Enhanced to Spec Aircrew, the correct competencies were entered into my JPA profile and then its a simple task to stop one rate and pay the other. The wonderful and caring (sic) personnel at JPAC have managed to withdraw all flying pay since June and refuse to make any head way in restoring what they owe me.
The usual round of I-supports, telephone calls, letters have all been ignored as has the letter of complaint to the Customer Services Department. These people never telephone you back, email you or atttempt to contact you in any way. I have left three telephone nunbers and two email addresses, plus my military and civil addresses by which they could contact me. The whole matter to date has consumed over 60 hours of my time, time that could be well spent doing what I'm paid for - when they eventually pay me correctly.
On 20 Decmber I issued a Small Claims Court Writ to JPAC to sue for the outstanding pay owed, plus interest, plus court fees. The 10th January was the deadline for them to respond, passed and I now have a request for a judgement to be made on the case. Should I win a legal request will be made to pay me what I'm owed immediately, including interest and court fees. The bad news is that this judgement is not enforceable in Scotland (perhaps this is why the main office is based there). However, Small Claims Courts are open courts and the details can be made public with whatever media interest that may generate. Also the debt can be sold to a Scottish Debt Collection agency for collection, they then can add their own fee as they see fit.
I am sure that I am the tip of the iceberg, and there are many hundreds if not thousands receiving a poor service form JPAC to a greater or lesser degree that myself. Its time that this inefficient and uncaring administration service was porperly audited and restructured to give at least a basic system where problems can be resloved within a set time frame.
I will keep you posted on the outcome. No doubt there will be some flack coming my way for airing this, but hey I aint going to be promoted further anyway, and with my time left to do I don't really care as long as get the pay that's owed to me in a suitale time scale.
Last edited by HeliAviator; 7th Feb 2008 at 11:28.
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I once took my stn cdr to the small claims court for a similar thing, as a very last resort. It was probably coincidence, but my pay issues were resolved the day after he received a summons.
I've (thankfully) had no experiences of JPAC, they sound a right bunch of cowboys. At the moment, I'm 8 months into a running battle with a motorbike insurance company, the details of which are being aired on a messageboard. I find the time to regularly e-mail the company MD with links and updates; showing him what the world is thinking of his company is the least I can do.
Perhaps dropping the office of CAS a link to here (he'll know who you are anyway)? Or http://www.writetothem.com/ or http://www.theyworkforyou.com ? I do it on a semi regular basis now, and its quite theraputic
. I also e-mailed David Cameron a few weeks back, and fair play to the man, I got a detailed response from a staffer. Just keep building and building a groundswell, and your case will suddenly establish critical mass.
Good luck. And don't stop.
I've (thankfully) had no experiences of JPAC, they sound a right bunch of cowboys. At the moment, I'm 8 months into a running battle with a motorbike insurance company, the details of which are being aired on a messageboard. I find the time to regularly e-mail the company MD with links and updates; showing him what the world is thinking of his company is the least I can do.
Perhaps dropping the office of CAS a link to here (he'll know who you are anyway)? Or http://www.writetothem.com/ or http://www.theyworkforyou.com ? I do it on a semi regular basis now, and its quite theraputic
. I also e-mailed David Cameron a few weeks back, and fair play to the man, I got a detailed response from a staffer. Just keep building and building a groundswell, and your case will suddenly establish critical mass. Good luck. And don't stop.
Just beating the air into submission!
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Thanks for the support, the suggestions and links. My next step is to info my local MP and DC to lobby the Armed Forces Minister. Or perhaps raise a PM's Petition for a complete overhaul of the JPA system as it clearly is not working. Anyone reading this prepared to sign if I do?
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A petition will get you nowhere in terms of overturning a decision. The g'ment ignores 2 million motorists so you haven't got much chance.
But I'd certainly sign it. I'm no longer in, but from what I've read, this is another example of those around whom a system should revolve, being treated like sh#t by the apparatik which runs it. It all depends how far you're prepared to go. I don't think I'm undermining anything which hasn't undermined itself or the RAF already, but perhaps JPA might benefit from a little mainstream scrutiny too? Sell them the idea, and let the train take the strain.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_radio/watchdog/
But I'd certainly sign it. I'm no longer in, but from what I've read, this is another example of those around whom a system should revolve, being treated like sh#t by the apparatik which runs it. It all depends how far you're prepared to go. I don't think I'm undermining anything which hasn't undermined itself or the RAF already, but perhaps JPA might benefit from a little mainstream scrutiny too? Sell them the idea, and let the train take the strain.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_radio/watchdog/
Champagne anyone...?
Almost the same deal here. Switched to PAS in June 07 and my pay hasn't changed. Spoken to my poor overworked desky who's tried to get the goons that run this rubbish to amend my details but no joy so far.
He wondered when I'd post it on PPrune!
He wondered when I'd post it on PPrune!
Just beating the air into submission!
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Guess what? A rather panicky person from JPAC has just telephoned me about the problem. That's a first in seven months, perhaps they read PPRUNE too! Apparently in good comedy TV show fashion; The computer say's no!
I look forward to the first test case of this in the courts. Either as the forces guy taking it to court, or being taken to court for a dispute over a claim etc etc.
Personally, I think the MOD and JPA will/would be ripped apart by a semi decent lawyer.
Personally, I think the MOD and JPA will/would be ripped apart by a semi decent lawyer.
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From my own experience, and that of everyone else I've spoken to who's been promoted since JPA was introduced, it seems to take an absolute minimum of 3 months (4 in my case, more in others') before changes in pay status are realised in the pay-cheque.
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Robin,
If you think that the savings for deferring the actioning of pay rises can be tens of thousands of ££'s in interest accrued, then it starts making a bit more more sense. 2 things spring to mind.
If the system is wrong, change the system.
Garbage in - garbage out.
If you think that the savings for deferring the actioning of pay rises can be tens of thousands of ££'s in interest accrued, then it starts making a bit more more sense. 2 things spring to mind.
If the system is wrong, change the system.
Garbage in - garbage out.
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Law of Unintended Consequences
The introduction of JPA has enabled the producers of the Air Force List to use best information to keep the list up to date and switch from expensive paper issues to an online version.
No longer will the PA to CO be able to flick quickly to find the latest post-nominals of the CAS.
Unfortunately JPA means it is no longer possible to maintain a Retired List. It also means all those that are not on JPA are not in any list either - RAFR, RAF(VR)T etc etc.
Another bit f history and historical record bites the dust of progress.
No longer will the PA to CO be able to flick quickly to find the latest post-nominals of the CAS.
Unfortunately JPA means it is no longer possible to maintain a Retired List. It also means all those that are not on JPA are not in any list either - RAFR, RAF(VR)T etc etc.
Another bit f history and historical record bites the dust of progress.
Just beating the air into submission!
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Yet another panicky call from JPAC Glasgow. They now tell me that it will be paid at the end of February, with all arrears. Now where have heard that before, let me think,,,,,,,,, Oh yes! Jul, Oct, Nov and Dec last year. And here's a thing, its going to be paid not as flying pay but added to my yearly salary and paid in 12 equal monthly sums. Correct me if I'm wrong but surely that's the PA system? I would be happy then if my DO sends the letter stating that I am now on the PA spine. Having asked to speak to someone in authority I was told no way, so the small claims court writ still stands, as does the £108 court fee and the £138 interest owed up to 10 Jan 08. This agency really is not fit for purpose as perviously mentioned.
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I know you've arrived at a figure, but The Late Payment of Commercial Debts (interest) Act of 1998 allows some to reclaim money owed. Let’s work it out.
The difference that you would make over 4 months is for arguments sake, £1000. Under the Act, you would be entitled to charge £35.14 in interest. Let us imagine that at any one time, there are 1,000 people (2% or so of the RAF) being affected by late payments like this. 35 x 1000 = £35,000 every 3 months. Across the uniformed elements of the MoD alone, that’s £315,000 in JPA fines. If it is more realistic, then it could be closer to £1,000,000 and that’s just money owed as a result of late salary increase payments. Factor in other late payments and the skies the limit with those jokers. Add too, court fees at about £100 a pop and its a few million. Simply because someone isn't doing their job properly.
I’d like to see the finance director explain to the House of Commons Select Committee or the NAO why a million quid’s worth of body armour isn’t being bought, because his Agency keeps getting fined.
Of course, this is never going to happen. You’re not self employed or a small business so ok, you can’t do it, but why should you be penalised financially simply because you elected to Defend the Realm? But it gives an idea as to the extent of the problem. My advice would be to go for the jugular, and I applaud you. I'm not inciting sedition or mutiny, because what you're doing isn't anything other than compelling the MoD to keep to a contract, because thats what it is. For decades, 'we' got accustomed and conditioned to accepting cock ups like this. In civvy street, I have issued a few dozen claims, why should I suffer for someone else's dishonesty, negligence or incompetence?
Teamwork and loyalty is a two way street. You work your butt off for the RAF, so why isn't it keeping to its side of the bargain? Work out the difference in what you were being paid, and what you should be paid. 294,990 employed by the MoD. And of course, it is hypothetical because you don't have a leg to stand on. Unless you elect to do what you have done.
http://www.payontime.co.uk/calculator/statutory.html
The difference that you would make over 4 months is for arguments sake, £1000. Under the Act, you would be entitled to charge £35.14 in interest. Let us imagine that at any one time, there are 1,000 people (2% or so of the RAF) being affected by late payments like this. 35 x 1000 = £35,000 every 3 months. Across the uniformed elements of the MoD alone, that’s £315,000 in JPA fines. If it is more realistic, then it could be closer to £1,000,000 and that’s just money owed as a result of late salary increase payments. Factor in other late payments and the skies the limit with those jokers. Add too, court fees at about £100 a pop and its a few million. Simply because someone isn't doing their job properly.
I’d like to see the finance director explain to the House of Commons Select Committee or the NAO why a million quid’s worth of body armour isn’t being bought, because his Agency keeps getting fined.
Of course, this is never going to happen. You’re not self employed or a small business so ok, you can’t do it, but why should you be penalised financially simply because you elected to Defend the Realm? But it gives an idea as to the extent of the problem. My advice would be to go for the jugular, and I applaud you. I'm not inciting sedition or mutiny, because what you're doing isn't anything other than compelling the MoD to keep to a contract, because thats what it is. For decades, 'we' got accustomed and conditioned to accepting cock ups like this. In civvy street, I have issued a few dozen claims, why should I suffer for someone else's dishonesty, negligence or incompetence?
Teamwork and loyalty is a two way street. You work your butt off for the RAF, so why isn't it keeping to its side of the bargain? Work out the difference in what you were being paid, and what you should be paid. 294,990 employed by the MoD. And of course, it is hypothetical because you don't have a leg to stand on. Unless you elect to do what you have done.
http://www.payontime.co.uk/calculator/statutory.html
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JPA vs Flying Pay
My flying pay was in error for a total of 15 months. Finally I got the arrears in 2 payments worth over 5000 pounds. I spent the best part of 3 weeks on the phone to Glasgow and they never once returned a call or answered the service request. I have been treated poorly once, it will not happen again. During the process it came to light that JPA is performing poorly with flying pay. Terrible service and no support to the personnel forced to use JPA.
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The ONE thing that is going to 'hack-off' a serviceman more than anything else in the whole, wide world is cocked-up pay, especially when you're owed money (the taking it away bit seems to work just fine). I seem to recall the senior Air officer responsible for the initial acceptance of JPA (sorry, can't remember his name) stated that he would not allow it to be introduced into the RAF until he was sure that everybody was going to paid correctly. As this is clearly not the case, it may be worth researching this with a view to some serious redress action 
.
). I seem to recall the senior Air officer responsible for the initial acceptance of JPA (sorry, can't remember his name) stated that he would not allow it to be introduced into the RAF until he was sure that everybody was going to paid correctly. As this is clearly not the case, it may be worth researching this with a view to some serious redress action .... to make sure you receive all your monies, all I require Sir, is your sort code and bank account number ... 
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I was posted in Jun 07 and it took them 6mths to start charging for moving into married quarters. All the back money I owed was taken in December of all months. That's how JPA wishes you Merry Xmas ! 
I've not been paid flying pay since July 07. Have put in 7 service requests, frustrating cycle of "yes sir it's sorted now, you'll get it at the end of the month", followed by not getting anything = new service request, 10 days for JPAC to reply and the cycle continuing into the next months pay chit. Finally got paid some flying pay ........but at the wrong rate, incorrect payment reclaimed gross, so now I'm even worse off. This month they say my pay will be correct but that they won't be giving me the £6000 owed in back payments until March. Thanks a million.
Heliaviator - I believe there is now a second tier of SR that cannot be closed after 10 days and that you (complainant) have to be satisfied with the outcome before it can be closed?
Heliaviator - I believe there is now a second tier of SR that cannot be closed after 10 days and that you (complainant) have to be satisfied with the outcome before it can be closed?
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Like ZH875 I too left last year, and I am also getting a regular pay statement telling me that I am not going to be paid a salary this month.
One upside of their incompetence is that despite holding on to my severance pay for the maximum of 30 days (to ensure any money owed is recovered pre payout) they then realised that I did owe them a paltry amount and demanded it back, I'm not exactly refusing to repay the money but as I've only had the one communication to date I shall operate at their speed. They can expect a cheque in 2020 or thereabouts.
One upside of their incompetence is that despite holding on to my severance pay for the maximum of 30 days (to ensure any money owed is recovered pre payout) they then realised that I did owe them a paltry amount and demanded it back, I'm not exactly refusing to repay the money but as I've only had the one communication to date I shall operate at their speed. They can expect a cheque in 2020 or thereabouts.