JPA and their appalling administrating
I agree. Apparently there was a vote to see whether we wanted one year's pay divided by 12 or each month paid according to how many days were in it. The annual one won, but no-one asked me.
We're all supposed to chk our pay is correct, but how will we ever know? You'd have to find your daily rate from somewhere else, multiply by 364 1/4 (or whatever it is, someone will tell me, no doubt), then do some calculations to put an extra 2% (for example) on April to Decembers, then a bit more if you've been promoted, then another bit if you've got an increment, perhaps take some off if you're on maternity pay, then divide that by how many days are left in the year and split that into the number of equal months that are left.... I have no idea any more.
I much preferred multiplying your daily rate (which was printed on the payslip) by 28/30/31 days. Easy.
I had an NPD taken off in November, quite incorrectly and still haven't got it back. Having been inspired by Heliaviator (and been to JPAC/HR etc etc) I feel a letter to my MP coming on.
We're all supposed to chk our pay is correct, but how will we ever know? You'd have to find your daily rate from somewhere else, multiply by 364 1/4 (or whatever it is, someone will tell me, no doubt), then do some calculations to put an extra 2% (for example) on April to Decembers, then a bit more if you've been promoted, then another bit if you've got an increment, perhaps take some off if you're on maternity pay, then divide that by how many days are left in the year and split that into the number of equal months that are left.... I have no idea any more.
I much preferred multiplying your daily rate (which was printed on the payslip) by 28/30/31 days. Easy.
I had an NPD taken off in November, quite incorrectly and still haven't got it back. Having been inspired by Heliaviator (and been to JPAC/HR etc etc) I feel a letter to my MP coming on.
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I feel a letter to my MP coming on
Would anyone else agree that the new style payslips are difficult to understand.
Worked a treat for me. I had a major bitch with the system (not JPA), my Station Commander was unable to help. An email to my MP and within a month a resounding success.
What you might need to know ............... removed for a few tweeks, back soon!
HA
HA
After a recent correspondence received I must inform you that I have been informed, that the small claim court is not the legal method to proceeding when all other paths fail.......
.......So, to those considering the small claims court route, I would council against it as it would appear it is the incorrect legal process and it may well cost you money.
.......So, to those considering the small claims court route, I would council against it as it would appear it is the incorrect legal process and it may well cost you money.
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Either that, or he has been given legal counsel not to post on here whilst the case is ongoing... I hope for all of us that this is the case, its about time that head blunty who is responsible for this gets a grip.
Chug, while I would not disagree with you in an awful lot of cases about this:
it is now, depressingly, in an increasing number of cases becoming:
"Flight, Squadron, Wing, Station, whatever, Commanders are quite unable to help."
I can bang away all day at Sqn admin, Stn admin, OC PMS, the Stn Cdr, the bloke that cleans the toilets etc etc, but when the problem is JPA, there is often genuinely little they can do. JPA will not speak to me, as I am not the individual concerned, when the individual does get through, even with me sat next to them, either "we will look at it and get back to you within 10 days, here is your reference number" or "contact your unit HR".
The ability of those commanders you mention above to actually do something about a problem has been removed. A call to OC Admin or the Chief Clerk on behalf of one of your chaps used to work wonders, but their hands are tied just as effectively.
I have just realised that I am defending the blunties. Now it's got this bad, it's time for me to join the rats.
It seems to be the accepted norm now that bosses, be they Flight, Squadron, Wing, Station, whatever, Commanders are quite incapable of being helpful
"Flight, Squadron, Wing, Station, whatever, Commanders are quite unable to help."
I can bang away all day at Sqn admin, Stn admin, OC PMS, the Stn Cdr, the bloke that cleans the toilets etc etc, but when the problem is JPA, there is often genuinely little they can do. JPA will not speak to me, as I am not the individual concerned, when the individual does get through, even with me sat next to them, either "we will look at it and get back to you within 10 days, here is your reference number" or "contact your unit HR".
The ability of those commanders you mention above to actually do something about a problem has been removed. A call to OC Admin or the Chief Clerk on behalf of one of your chaps used to work wonders, but their hands are tied just as effectively.
I have just realised that I am defending the blunties. Now it's got this bad, it's time for me to join the rats.
Ghastly, ghastly typo
In the meantime the real concern is the adverse effect that the MOD and its apparatchiks are having on the armed forces. The fact that the first line of defence against maladministration, the subordinate commanders who tackled P2, Accounts, Station Admin, whoever to nip problems in the bud, no longer seems to be the case is worrying and puzzling.
Last edited by TMJ; 15th Feb 2008 at 13:54.
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We're all supposed to chk our pay is correct, but how will we ever know? You'd have to find your daily rate from somewhere else, multiply by 364 1/4 (or whatever it is, someone will tell me, no doubt), then do some calculations to put an extra 2% (for example) on April to Decembers, then a bit more if you've been promoted, then another bit if you've got an increment, perhaps take some off if you're on maternity pay, then divide that by how many days are left in the year and split that into the number of equal months that are left.... I have no idea any more.
We're all supposed to chk our pay is correct, but how will we ever know? You'd have to find your daily rate from somewhere else, multiply by 364 1/4 (or whatever it is, someone will tell me, no doubt), then do some calculations to put an extra 2% (for example) on April to Decembers, then a bit more if you've been promoted, then another bit if you've got an increment, perhaps take some off if you're on maternity pay, then divide that by how many days are left in the year and split that into the number of equal months that are left.... I have no idea any more.
PlasticCabDriver and TMJ, thank you both for explaining the situation to me, blindingly obvious to you guys, less so to us BOFs outside. It is however as I suspected, subordinate commanders no longer have the powers to carry out their necessary pastoral duties. That is very dangerous IMHO for if they can't look after you why should you bust a gut on their behalf? I'm not saying you don't, but the genii is out of the bottle methinks. Solution, squeeze it back in! Restore all the historic discipline and welfare powers to subordinate commanders. How could they ever control the likes of JPA, you ask? They couldn't, it doesn't work anyway, scrap it and make its successor part of the RAF's CoC (likewise with the other services). But it will cost more! Yes, so does having separate services, but until you all become UKDFs and wear purple uniforms (God forbid) essential services like Pay must be subordinate to Service Commanders. TMJ, your inspiring tale of Station Commanders having their people pull out all the stops to ameliorate the JPA factor merely shows the desire to do their job, ie to command. They MUST be able to do so, and as a matter of routine. Restore their powers!
I am clear in my mind that the above is the strategy to follow if the RAF is to survive, meanwhile the tactics of dealing with JPA? Sue the brassards! As NigeGilb says crack on!
I am clear in my mind that the above is the strategy to follow if the RAF is to survive, meanwhile the tactics of dealing with JPA? Sue the brassards! As NigeGilb says crack on!
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Chug
PCD answered more succinctly (and far quicker) than I could. I certainly was not defending the system simply offering a word of encouragement to Scribbly that when all else fails your MP can help (just make sure you are in the right). I defer completely to PCD's answer with the exception it is not just JPA that is broken (was it ever thus?) but many things that we both knew and loved, in decades long past, no longer work or even exist. There is still fun to be had but it's just a lot harder to find.
PCD answered more succinctly (and far quicker) than I could. I certainly was not defending the system simply offering a word of encouragement to Scribbly that when all else fails your MP can help (just make sure you are in the right). I defer completely to PCD's answer with the exception it is not just JPA that is broken (was it ever thus?) but many things that we both knew and loved, in decades long past, no longer work or even exist. There is still fun to be had but it's just a lot harder to find.
INW, absolutely and point taken. I am very aware of two things above all else: it is a different RAF manned by different people in different times, and this RAF is engaged in a bloody war or two. So if people tell the likes of me to wind our necks in, I for one probably will. However I also feel that the changes that have happened since my time have been gradual and insidious. It is only those, like me, who left so long ago that are able to see the glaring contrast with the scene today. Where that change has been seemingly detrimental to the RAF, witness JPA in particular and the loss of powers of subordinate commanders in general, I feel compelled like the little boy gazing on a naked emperor to at least point it out. Many problems are down to sheer scale, too much being tasked of too little, but the theme of this thread points up dysfunctional systems that should be reversed engineered back to what worked because they don't. I don't give a damn about the MOD or its hideous offspring like JPA. I do care passionately about the RAF. I'm damned if it is to be broken while I'm around by a bunch of inept meddlers, be they uniformed or civvies!
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It'd be easy to suggest that things always get worse as we get older, but don't stories like that only reinforce the feeling of ever declining standards, and not only recently declining standards? Lets face it. If you start off with something that is only as good as you know (for instance, in 1976), and things get worse, it doesn't automatically imply that things in 1976 were brilliant. You just didn't know any different, and that was your defining benchmark.
I agree about your points though.
I agree about your points though.
TOFO, your Cornish experience is one that we have all shared in our time in one form or another. That is why I can now see myself as the BOF that your old FS Air Eng was to you c1976. But I am not haranguing you about the state of the RAF today in general, of course it is different, something would be wrong if it wasn't! My concern is the subject of this thread, JPA, and its effect on morale and efficiency. In addition the realisation gained from this thread that the very people who should pick up on JPA's shortcomings to find solutions, ie subordinate commanders, are now powerless to do so is frankly alarming. I have not simply damned the present, I have tried to make constructive suggestions to correct what I see as a fundamental contradiction in the modern RAF CoC. You may disagree, you may edge surreptitiously towards your escape route, I may be talking depressing bilge, or just maybe the depressing bilge is:
a bunch of inept meddlers, be they uniformed or civvies!
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Just a comment about 'how things could be worse, he cheered up and sure enough, things got worse.'
Long before 1976, on a day that can easily be googled, I met a retired sqn ldr (36) who gave me a word of advice - resign.
A year later, on my first day on my first operational station a copilot on another sqn gave me the same advice.
This is the same advice still being trundled out here but we still have lots of people clamouring to join. The system, or what they hope is the system, is clearly still attractive to new recruits although increasingly less so looking at current manning figures.
Long before 1976, on a day that can easily be googled, I met a retired sqn ldr (36) who gave me a word of advice - resign.
A year later, on my first day on my first operational station a copilot on another sqn gave me the same advice.
This is the same advice still being trundled out here but we still have lots of people clamouring to join. The system, or what they hope is the system, is clearly still attractive to new recruits although increasingly less so looking at current manning figures.
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Payment of Pension Lump Sum
Folks
Looking for a little info.
Could anyone who has retired since the intro of JPA please PM me with an idea of how long after your retirement date the Pension Lump Sum reached your bank account.
Thanks
S206
Looking for a little info.
Could anyone who has retired since the intro of JPA please PM me with an idea of how long after your retirement date the Pension Lump Sum reached your bank account.
Thanks
S206
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Having just joined the forum I thought I would give my two cents on JPA. I recently joined the UAS and the 4 or 5 paychecks from JPA I have recieved have been without problems. I am aware of all the problems about JPa but it has worked fine for me, even travel expenses. This is in no way down to me, I thank the admin girls in the sqn that have to deal with it day by day!
Dave
Dave
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could