Fat loadies!
Hellbound
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Come on Wg make your mind up chap 
Ever considered the two reasons why a lot of us light blue are a bit on the plump side and spend years being like it?
a Because our fitness test is so feckin easy to pass
b Because we know it really winds you brown jobs up
Ever considered the two reasons why a lot of us light blue are a bit on the plump side and spend years being like it?
a Because our fitness test is so feckin easy to pass
b Because we know it really winds you brown jobs up
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How times change, back in the day, we were ALL dead keen on "Health and Efficiency"
http://www.henaturist.net/joomla/
http://www.henaturist.net/joomla/
Last edited by Jetex Jim; 12th Oct 2007 at 17:39.
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South Bound
Not true actually. Uniforms were originally intended to enable the identification of friendly forces on the battlefield and have since become a method of personal concealment. Shaving and keeping hair short was for hygiene purposes - it prevented the spread of fleas and lice and subsequently allowed medics to treat wounds without having to remove hair from the area.
If the military were all about looking good we'd go to war in DJs
Personally I think personal appearance is important. It is why we wear uniform, keep our hair short, shave daily
If the military were all about looking good we'd go to war in DJs
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Not true actually. Uniforms were originally intended to enable the identification of friendly forces on the battlefield and have since become a method of personal concealment. Shaving and keeping hair short was for hygiene purposes - it prevented the spread of fleas and lice and subsequently allowed medics to treat wounds without having to remove hair from the area.
Nice come-back but I dont think you've really made a convicing argument regarding military people being grossly overweight.
Are you saying its ok for military chaps and chapesses being grossly overweight regardless of them being able to do their job?
Is being military just about being able to do your 'designated job spec'?
Surely the fatties should be doing something about it rather than spending all their time posting about why they should be lard arses on here?
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WG:
I warned you...
On the bright side, with all the energy being expended on coming up with excuses and typing them out for you the "usual suspects" are getting a better workout than they've had in years...
Keep it up... You'll have them fitting in their flying suits before you know it...
I warned you...
On the bright side, with all the energy being expended on coming up with excuses and typing them out for you the "usual suspects" are getting a better workout than they've had in years...
Keep it up... You'll have them fitting in their flying suits before you know it...
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Blimey - this has gone mad in last few hours.
I will re-iterate my point (say it again) so that the gym-posers might at least try to understand.
1. You saw a couple of tubby blokes in the feeder at Shawbury.
2. You decided they were clinically obese.
3. You decided that they were wheezy and couldn't do their jobs.
4. You decided that they set a bad example to their students.
This is without knowledge of their medical cats or fitness test results. This is without seeing them perform their duties. This is without being taught by them.
I'd say that is at lot of inference (guessing) from one fact.
I'll make an inference (guess) of my own. By calling them loadys [sic] (from the latin (an old language)sicut in this context (setting) meaning your mistake not mine) you have never worked with SH crewmen.
Try these scenarios:
1. Take a "tubby" who is good at his job, medically sound and can pass the fitness test. Being thinner and fitter would be an advantage whilst legging it after a shootdown - absolutely true. Contrast that person with a gym-boy who smokes. He would be fitter and better able to leg-it etc if he didn't smoke. Also he is setting a bad example to the health of his juniors, as well as looking awful - shall we chuck him out too? Or do we accept that if both can pass the fitness test and do their jobs to the level that the service require then that is acceptable. Any improved performance offered by giving up smoking/pies is between them and their respective consciences (inner moral values).
2. These "tubbys" may well be medically downgraded after years of loyal service with broken backs, knees and necks - all attributable to the lot of an SH crewman. Consequently they cannot maintain the fitness and deployability criteria demanded by the frontline. Shall we simply chuck them out or put them in a suitable post where they can pass on years of experience and can-do ethos, whilst winding down towards retirement?
Just think a little more - it might be you one day?
I will re-iterate my point (say it again) so that the gym-posers might at least try to understand.
1. You saw a couple of tubby blokes in the feeder at Shawbury.
2. You decided they were clinically obese.
3. You decided that they were wheezy and couldn't do their jobs.
4. You decided that they set a bad example to their students.
This is without knowledge of their medical cats or fitness test results. This is without seeing them perform their duties. This is without being taught by them.
I'd say that is at lot of inference (guessing) from one fact.
I'll make an inference (guess) of my own. By calling them loadys [sic] (from the latin (an old language)sicut in this context (setting) meaning your mistake not mine) you have never worked with SH crewmen.
Try these scenarios:
1. Take a "tubby" who is good at his job, medically sound and can pass the fitness test. Being thinner and fitter would be an advantage whilst legging it after a shootdown - absolutely true. Contrast that person with a gym-boy who smokes. He would be fitter and better able to leg-it etc if he didn't smoke. Also he is setting a bad example to the health of his juniors, as well as looking awful - shall we chuck him out too? Or do we accept that if both can pass the fitness test and do their jobs to the level that the service require then that is acceptable. Any improved performance offered by giving up smoking/pies is between them and their respective consciences (inner moral values).
2. These "tubbys" may well be medically downgraded after years of loyal service with broken backs, knees and necks - all attributable to the lot of an SH crewman. Consequently they cannot maintain the fitness and deployability criteria demanded by the frontline. Shall we simply chuck them out or put them in a suitable post where they can pass on years of experience and can-do ethos, whilst winding down towards retirement?
Just think a little more - it might be you one day?
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wg13
Two reasons:
1. It allows easy, at a glance identification of people who should and should not be on camp. Wouldn't you look harder at someone fiddling with an aircraft if they were in civvies? (contractors notwithstanding)
2. It's an historical hangover which has continued due to the basic psychology of the military mind (a different matter to the individual minds of those in the military in most cases!). See Norman Dixon's "On the Psychology of Military Incompetence", chapter entitled "Bull****" (chapter 8 I think, don't have it here with me here in the sandpit) for further explanation.
Thank you but that wasn't the aim of my post. I was simply pointing out that if the individual can do a job and his/her being overweight, grossly or otherwise, has no effect, then there is no problem.
Quite the opposite: they must be able to do their job regardless of their being overweight. If their being overweight means they cannot do the job (e.g. fitting down the load hatch of a Puma) then there is a problem to be addressed.
Define "being military". Is it anything to do with "being professional"?
Why? If they can do their job and are an effective part of the military machine then they are taking their pay in good conscience.
Brian - well said.
So going on your statement above, why do we bother to wear rig in camp? (Sorry, wear uniform on base).
1. It allows easy, at a glance identification of people who should and should not be on camp. Wouldn't you look harder at someone fiddling with an aircraft if they were in civvies? (contractors notwithstanding)
2. It's an historical hangover which has continued due to the basic psychology of the military mind (a different matter to the individual minds of those in the military in most cases!). See Norman Dixon's "On the Psychology of Military Incompetence", chapter entitled "Bull****" (chapter 8 I think, don't have it here with me here in the sandpit) for further explanation.
Nice come-back but I dont think you've really made a convicing argument regarding military people being grossly overweight.
Are you saying its ok for military chaps and chapesses being grossly overweight regardless of them being able to do their job?
Is being military just about being able to do your 'designated job spec'?
Surely the fatties should be doing something about it rather than spending all their time posting about why they should be lard arses on here?
Brian - well said.
PTT - I can see you have been reading Warburton's 'Thinking from A to Z' in order to identify an ad hominem argument - by the time you finish colouring in the pages from B to Z you might even produce some reasoned arguments of your own instead of relentless 'cut and paste with criticism' efforts.
Maybe that cutting and pasting was your exercise for the day - you should go and have a lie down.
Fat people in uniform look sloppy and unmilitary, regardless of their capability. Sadly much of that capability is often wistfully remembered from days of yore when they weren't such fat knackers. If they are good at their job as porkers, they could be good at their job and look military as well if they stopped eating so much. And, Shock Horror, they might even be better at their job if they were carrying less weight around.
Unfortunately our fitness test is crap and most only aim to reach the easy target standard rather than see how far they can beat it by. At the point I can't pass it to the standard expected of a 20 yr old (I'm 46) I will consider myself a double fat knacker and do more phys until I can.
Obsessive? No. It's just a matter of personal pride which I believe goes along hand in hand with professional pride. If you are a slob in your personal life, those same poor standards are far more likely to affect your professional life.
Healthy body = healthy mind anyone?
PS It's Per Ardua not Per Lardua
Maybe that cutting and pasting was your exercise for the day - you should go and have a lie down.
Fat people in uniform look sloppy and unmilitary, regardless of their capability. Sadly much of that capability is often wistfully remembered from days of yore when they weren't such fat knackers. If they are good at their job as porkers, they could be good at their job and look military as well if they stopped eating so much. And, Shock Horror, they might even be better at their job if they were carrying less weight around.
Unfortunately our fitness test is crap and most only aim to reach the easy target standard rather than see how far they can beat it by. At the point I can't pass it to the standard expected of a 20 yr old (I'm 46) I will consider myself a double fat knacker and do more phys until I can.
Obsessive? No. It's just a matter of personal pride which I believe goes along hand in hand with professional pride. If you are a slob in your personal life, those same poor standards are far more likely to affect your professional life.
Healthy body = healthy mind anyone?
PS It's Per Ardua not Per Lardua
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Its not about being super fit, its about looking reasonably armed forces like.
Let me get this straight - your complaint is that these fat f**kers don't LOOK military enough for you? I have worked with plenty of fat blokes over the years - I've never come across ONE who couldn't do his job because of his weight. You are ASSUMING that this crewman would have trouble 'humping and dumping' in the back of a helo just because of the way he looks? I guess we could save some money then, by chinning off STANEVAL, if you're good enough to assess someones ability in role with a mere glance.
You are saying that anyone who strays from your idea of what a 'military' person should look like should be binned, regardles of how capable they are in their role? You, my friend, have your priorities all to cock - I'd be very wary of doing any kind of Op with the likes of you.
And I would LOVE to see you tell a bunch of unshaven, long-haired 'hooligans' that they didn't look 'military' enough for you - and walk away with your teeth intact!
Thinking about it I reckon Rik Waller could push and pull a few knobs as well.
Who gives 7 shades of sh!t what somebody LOOKS like? It's a war, not a fcuking beauty contest.
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It's a war, not a fcuking beauty contest
The key point here is that being grossly overweight suggests a supreme lack of self discipline.
If members of the military do not have the self discipline to look after their bodies it doesn't bode well for their professionalism... Yes that does not automatically mean individuals are not professional in their duties - but it's not a good first impression.
I do not expect people I work and fly with to be able to do the Commando course but in a 'war' (as you eloquently put it) - if we end up next to a burning wreck under contact I've effectively got a casualty straight away if fattie can't keep up with the break contact drills. That puts the rest of the crew at risk (and is easily avoidable – by not having someone incapable of running 100m with kit on the crew) and is not something I am prepared to deal with.
That is the point gents and I find it genuinely disgusting that people here can argue for the ridiculous notion that being fat is better! The only argument being that blokes who go down the gym might injure themselves or spend less time learning the job than a pie muncher.
I pray I never have to work with your ‘professionalism’.
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Loadies fat?
They were only slightly podgy when i left the mob 2 years ago, surely the RAF has cut the amount of packed meals for flights enough, to ensure theyve lost the weight by now?
They were only slightly podgy when i left the mob 2 years ago, surely the RAF has cut the amount of packed meals for flights enough, to ensure theyve lost the weight by now?
Inquisitor - I have worked with a few 'hooligans' in my time and I've never seen a fat one.
Blending in with the locals or being unable to wash/shave etc due to doing close surveillance is not the same as eating double pie and mash every day - unless you are undercover on an elephant seal colony
Blending in with the locals or being unable to wash/shave etc due to doing close surveillance is not the same as eating double pie and mash every day - unless you are undercover on an elephant seal colony
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Poiltely_amused,
I don't see people arguing that it is better to be fat. I do see people saying that medical cat, fitness test and continual on-the-job assessment are better criteria on which to measure someone's ability to perform their role than the arbitrary once-over that guidedweapon was advocating. Moreover, the crux of his indignity appeared to be the presentation rather than the substance.
Everyone could be fitter if they spent more time training. You may have set your own level that happens to be above that required by the service, crab@saa has certainly done so by achieving the levels for those much younger - good for both of you. However, you appear to be saying that those who don't, or who can't, set the same standards are ill-disciplined; even if they meet the level required by the service.
The nub of the argument is that unless someone is about as fit as you, or fitter, they are unprofessional. This could equally be applied to flying ability, professional knowledge or CRM. Playing devil's advocate - unless you are about as good as me, or better, in all those disciplines then you are unprofessional. You can't say "but I meet the standard required " because you have already rejected that argument.
Try it another way - Do you advocate folks doing sport during working hours? Instead of getting their heads in the books? Or only after their supervisors are happy that their professional standards are satisfactory (there's that same argument again).
I agree that grossly overweight is bad, but some of the jockstrappers need a reality check on the relative merits of this one aspect versus all the other attributes that go to make up a good operator.
"We only get so many heartbeats in life - I don't like wasting mine on exercise" - Neil Armstrong.
I don't see people arguing that it is better to be fat. I do see people saying that medical cat, fitness test and continual on-the-job assessment are better criteria on which to measure someone's ability to perform their role than the arbitrary once-over that guidedweapon was advocating. Moreover, the crux of his indignity appeared to be the presentation rather than the substance.
Everyone could be fitter if they spent more time training. You may have set your own level that happens to be above that required by the service, crab@saa has certainly done so by achieving the levels for those much younger - good for both of you. However, you appear to be saying that those who don't, or who can't, set the same standards are ill-disciplined; even if they meet the level required by the service.
The nub of the argument is that unless someone is about as fit as you, or fitter, they are unprofessional. This could equally be applied to flying ability, professional knowledge or CRM. Playing devil's advocate - unless you are about as good as me, or better, in all those disciplines then you are unprofessional. You can't say "but I meet the standard required " because you have already rejected that argument.
Try it another way - Do you advocate folks doing sport during working hours? Instead of getting their heads in the books? Or only after their supervisors are happy that their professional standards are satisfactory (there's that same argument again).
I agree that grossly overweight is bad, but some of the jockstrappers need a reality check on the relative merits of this one aspect versus all the other attributes that go to make up a good operator.
"We only get so many heartbeats in life - I don't like wasting mine on exercise" - Neil Armstrong.
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The point you all seem to miss is that you need to be fit to operate in the worst possible circumstances. That would be all out combat, (with an enemy for those that miss the point here), at close quarters. When it comes down to that you expect the people around you to support you but if they are too unfit to be able to do so your life is further at risk.
Gentlemen, whether you like it or not you joined a fighting force. Not a force the "projects it's air power" but a fighting force because, believe me, their airships will hand you a gun and tell you to get in a trench and fight if they see fit, (see what I did there). Despite what you may think the RAF is not a flying club for your personal pleasure and to pay the odd bill here and there.
The fact that you are prepared to spend so much time solidly defending unfitness despite the undeniable health benefits clearly demonstrates the depth of your lack of self respect and discipline.
I often said that should my a/c go down, depending upon the pilot, I would most likely go off on my own because I would be safer. The number of people that I would leave in this thread indicates that things have certainly not improved. No-one is saying that you are required to be a racing snake... But at least demonstrate that you try... It's the lack of trying that is probably more off-putting than incessant pie eating.
Gentlemen, whether you like it or not you joined a fighting force. Not a force the "projects it's air power" but a fighting force because, believe me, their airships will hand you a gun and tell you to get in a trench and fight if they see fit, (see what I did there). Despite what you may think the RAF is not a flying club for your personal pleasure and to pay the odd bill here and there.
The fact that you are prepared to spend so much time solidly defending unfitness despite the undeniable health benefits clearly demonstrates the depth of your lack of self respect and discipline.
I often said that should my a/c go down, depending upon the pilot, I would most likely go off on my own because I would be safer. The number of people that I would leave in this thread indicates that things have certainly not improved. No-one is saying that you are required to be a racing snake... But at least demonstrate that you try... It's the lack of trying that is probably more off-putting than incessant pie eating.
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AA you still dreamin the live then?
"The number of people that I would leave in this thread indicates that things have certainly not improved"
The folk you refer to are currently serving, walking the walk and talking the talk. You on the other hand chose to leave so do not sit in your armchair pontificating on something you obviously didn't have the minerals to see through
Bloody civvies
"The number of people that I would leave in this thread indicates that things have certainly not improved"
The folk you refer to are currently serving, walking the walk and talking the talk. You on the other hand chose to leave so do not sit in your armchair pontificating on something you obviously didn't have the minerals to see through
Bloody civvies