PVRs
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Well I did several years ago & haven't regretted it one bit. More money, better prospects, appreciation in the workplace, more control over personal life/housing etc. The list is endless.
I miss a few of the guys I used to work with, but it was definately a myth that the Forces is the only place to enjoy banter & camaraderie. Myadvice to anyone unhappy...get out as soon as you can.
I miss a few of the guys I used to work with, but it was definately a myth that the Forces is the only place to enjoy banter & camaraderie. Myadvice to anyone unhappy...get out as soon as you can.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
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Cornish,
Apologies only me being rude
Al,
Sorry but I have gone back and looked and looked again at your posts and you still have me confused
I am full of admiration for those who have simply had enough and made the very brave decision to leave with all the potential uncertainty that that entails, but for myself the introduction of PA Spine and the New Pension scheme mean financially I would be mad to go now as instead of needing a job when I leave I can now look forward to very very happy and prosperous retirement, not long to go
Where I believe I differ from some who appear to be struggling to let go and have posted in here is that I am fully aware that the day I do leave I will be leaving some good friends behind but, and this is the main point I am trying to make the system will not give a toss whether I turn left or right outside the main gate.
I could, if I felt the need to big myself up trot out a whole host of qual's etc that I have attained in what will eventually god willing be almost 39 years of service life but why? I am not daft enough to believe that as I go the system will not find a whole bunch of good people ready and prepared to step up and take over and in fact I would be bitterly disappointed with my own contribution if I felt I had not been party to putting in place the building blocks to keep the military machine on track.
What I most look forward to when I leave is the ability to reflect but let completely go, we will travel and do things we always dreamed of but most importantly and having let go I will bet my pension I will feel the need to rant and rave in here on subjects I will often know very little about as often as Beagle gets "wood"
Apologies only me being rude
Al,
Sorry but I have gone back and looked and looked again at your posts and you still have me confused
I am full of admiration for those who have simply had enough and made the very brave decision to leave with all the potential uncertainty that that entails, but for myself the introduction of PA Spine and the New Pension scheme mean financially I would be mad to go now as instead of needing a job when I leave I can now look forward to very very happy and prosperous retirement, not long to go
Where I believe I differ from some who appear to be struggling to let go and have posted in here is that I am fully aware that the day I do leave I will be leaving some good friends behind but, and this is the main point I am trying to make the system will not give a toss whether I turn left or right outside the main gate.
I could, if I felt the need to big myself up trot out a whole host of qual's etc that I have attained in what will eventually god willing be almost 39 years of service life but why? I am not daft enough to believe that as I go the system will not find a whole bunch of good people ready and prepared to step up and take over and in fact I would be bitterly disappointed with my own contribution if I felt I had not been party to putting in place the building blocks to keep the military machine on track.
What I most look forward to when I leave is the ability to reflect but let completely go, we will travel and do things we always dreamed of but most importantly and having let go I will bet my pension I will feel the need to rant and rave in here on subjects I will often know very little about as often as Beagle gets "wood"
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: West Anglia
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AIDU - when did I mention anything about you enjoying your job? What a strange retort. I merely suggested that the people who shout the loudest about staying are the ones most terrified of leaving. Of course people would be staying in if there was no jobs out there - those years at the London School of Economics weren't wasted were they? Your mantra of 'if you don't like it, leave' is true. And the bouyant market combined with a morally bankrupt war, a spineless leadership and ever-reducing benefits means lots of us are.
The scariest thing I found as I navigated the mire of licences is that for every bitter ex-forces guy going through the training establishment I frequented, there was a sharp, young lad/ladette who could have walked into Cranwell, but didn't fancy being in today's RAF and fighting the conflicts we face (for moral reasons, not moral fibre). People leaving+people not joining=more overstretch.
And if that happens they'd have to pull you away from being Stn Cdr RAF Northolt and send you to all sorts of nasty places.....
The scariest thing I found as I navigated the mire of licences is that for every bitter ex-forces guy going through the training establishment I frequented, there was a sharp, young lad/ladette who could have walked into Cranwell, but didn't fancy being in today's RAF and fighting the conflicts we face (for moral reasons, not moral fibre). People leaving+people not joining=more overstretch.
And if that happens they'd have to pull you away from being Stn Cdr RAF Northolt and send you to all sorts of nasty places.....
Join Date: Jan 2005
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No, you didn't go to LSE. Perhaps it was Cambridge, studying irony.
Scared to stay in and make a difference? Clutching at straws a bit there, aren't we?
Anyway, I'm not trying to change your mind - just pointing out that your 'just leave' speech is redundant because we are. Eventually, when the school allowance gets canned and you're on your fourth tour of whatever fly-blown oil-producing country we annex next, you might too. Good luck whichever way.
Scared to stay in and make a difference? Clutching at straws a bit there, aren't we?
Anyway, I'm not trying to change your mind - just pointing out that your 'just leave' speech is redundant because we are. Eventually, when the school allowance gets canned and you're on your fourth tour of whatever fly-blown oil-producing country we annex next, you might too. Good luck whichever way.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @exRAF_Al
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Sorry AIDU, I am aware of why 'we' practice the ac on soft ball surfaces thanks very much (boy, you should have seen them bounce on Op Bushell), and I left because I had to. I was injured and yes, I do miss it but being an official bona fide war pensioner, I've done my bit and reserve the right to post crap and tell you how I see it.. if thats ok with you of course..
I don't really have time for Neighbours I'm afraid, and was given a steer here by someone with whom I once worked and yes, it takes up far too much of my time! I don't have much time to wile away the hours either. I am the commercial director of a chemicals laboratory, having launched and published my own car magazine (.. you want fear? Try doing that) with 2 others and which I sold off my directors interest in, earlier this year. I still see it with pride in Tesco and Smiths and I have on my office wall at home, a cheesy A1 mounted enlargement of me on the front cover, ragging the arse of something rather tasty and writing about it (thank god for patient subbies..). Yup, all that in just 5 years in civvy street.
I did it because I could hack the change, I wasn't afraid of risk and hard work and as a result I've seen success in my working life from both sides of the fence.. what about you?
I don't really have time for Neighbours I'm afraid, and was given a steer here by someone with whom I once worked and yes, it takes up far too much of my time! I don't have much time to wile away the hours either. I am the commercial director of a chemicals laboratory, having launched and published my own car magazine (.. you want fear? Try doing that) with 2 others and which I sold off my directors interest in, earlier this year. I still see it with pride in Tesco and Smiths and I have on my office wall at home, a cheesy A1 mounted enlargement of me on the front cover, ragging the arse of something rather tasty and writing about it (thank god for patient subbies..
). Yup, all that in just 5 years in civvy street. I did it because I could hack the change, I wasn't afraid of risk and hard work and as a result I've seen success in my working life from both sides of the fence.. what about you?
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Some time when you’re feeling important.
Sometime when your ego’s in bloom.
Sometime when you take it for granted
you’re the best qualified man in the room.
Sometime when you think that your leaving
will leave an unfillable hole.
Just follow these simple instructions
and see how they humble your soul.
Take a bucket and fill it with water.
Put your hands in it, up to your wrists.
Take them out and the hole that remains
Is a measure of how you’ll be missed.
You may stir all you like as you enter.
You may splash up the water galore.
But stop! And you’ll find in a minute
it looks just the same as before.
The moral of this is quite simple.
You must do the best that you can.
Be proud of yourself but remember,
there is no ‘Indispensible Man.’
O’dark-30 in 73/74 I had reason to visit the dump at Scampton and found the above on the entry picket-post wall, I’ve carried it with me through thick and thin ever since. Been wanting to share it with somebody for a while and this thread seems as good a place to do it as anywhere.
Rgds
Sometime when your ego’s in bloom.
Sometime when you take it for granted
you’re the best qualified man in the room.
Sometime when you think that your leaving
will leave an unfillable hole.
Just follow these simple instructions
and see how they humble your soul.
Take a bucket and fill it with water.
Put your hands in it, up to your wrists.
Take them out and the hole that remains
Is a measure of how you’ll be missed.
You may stir all you like as you enter.
You may splash up the water galore.
But stop! And you’ll find in a minute
it looks just the same as before.
The moral of this is quite simple.
You must do the best that you can.
Be proud of yourself but remember,
there is no ‘Indispensible Man.’
O’dark-30 in 73/74 I had reason to visit the dump at Scampton and found the above on the entry picket-post wall, I’ve carried it with me through thick and thin ever since. Been wanting to share it with somebody for a while and this thread seems as good a place to do it as anywhere.
Rgds
Join Date: Jul 2007
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AIDU,
With regard to my second para, the change that I'm referring to is my choice of civvy career which is possibly as far removed from TG8 as you can imagine. Deadlines for international magazines replaced the buzz and demands that I had enjoyed in uniform. The hard work I am referring to, is handling the transition from range tea to latte and starting at the bottom again, to learn the ropes. It also helped that the commercial director of Max Power magazine at the time, had a Sqn Ldr brother serving in the Regt, so I had a lucky break. They all count. It also helped that I could sit through any bull**** meeting in a hotel or boardroom and remind myself that I could have been listening to one similar under a rain lashed poncho.
My time in the mob came to an abrupt end, but it was only the means to the end. When I was younger, I always thought that my whole life was going to be the Regt. It wasn't. The RAF as an organisation won't miss you, simply because it doesn't learn from its mistakes. Skill and experience are missed every time a job takes 5% longer to achieve than what it might have taken, if you were still there, but its not in the military mindset to recognise it.
We (and I'll hijack the prerogative if you don't mind) are slaves to a system, we take some measure of Pavlovian perverse pleasure at of being downtrodden and working our butts off in exchange from a pat on the back from Wingco because we're tribal, we're hierarchal and because we draw strength from common adversity. And rightly so, we're the ruddy military! But if some Wg Cmdr once told you that you were a 'can do' kinda guy, thats a form of brainwashing, but you don't realise it. In a FTSE 100 company telling the troops they're 'can do' is tantamount to calling them underfunded. If you're underfunded in the 'real' world, you lose the contract ~ just look at the management speeches and memos to workers at Rover in the months before the rug was pulled from under their feet.. they're almost Churchillian "We will fight them in the showrooms..").
Sure, we're all rightly proud of our work ethic and what we can achieve when we need to be flexible and when our backs are to the wall. But whatever you do, don't confuse 'can do' and being flushed with success at an F6000 kudos, with the simple economic fact that you have to be, because Brown has slashed the Defence Budget yet again in order to subsidise the Polish shipyards or roadbuilding in the other emerging Baltic States. And yes, the water level in the bucket gets filled up again, eventually, but lets not confuse modesty with having a sense of our own worth. How often have we whinged about being gapped or coping with someone detached?
My point about the PVR situation was simple. Its asinine to suggest to those who are leaving that they won't be missed.. because they will. They might not be missed by the good and the great here, but they'll sure as hell be missed by SAC Bloggs on the hangar floor who has to do guard training that little more often, and by the section who loses SAC Bloggs that little more often. Your opinion is subjective, mine less so.. if someone wants to PVR, the RAF will let him/her go because there is no system in place to register, measure and react to discord or discontent apart from the PVR register. The attitude is almost like a lover being spurned (".. well, if thats your atitude, we don't want you anyway.. you can go and be (spits).. a civvy!!").
I bet you there will be systems in place to mitigate PVR, but not Applications to PVR. Losing infanteers to private security companies or losing aircrew to BA, all trained at public expense and not doing anything worthwhile about it? Sorry, thats probably negligence and I would love to see a report by any public accounts committee about it. Accepting manpower wastage and loss of experience for what it invariably is.. (ie; sloppy management) and not an excuse to wrap ourselves in the mindset of those who came up with the name 'Sinn Fein', would be a start. Instead of wasting a day doing EO and all that time consuming bollocks, how many stations recognise the fact that people are hacked off and offer 1 day get togethers for people considering PVR and seeing what can be done to change their minds?
Or does the CO still wear new clothes?
With regard to my second para, the change that I'm referring to is my choice of civvy career which is possibly as far removed from TG8 as you can imagine. Deadlines for international magazines replaced the buzz and demands that I had enjoyed in uniform. The hard work I am referring to, is handling the transition from range tea to latte and starting at the bottom again, to learn the ropes. It also helped that the commercial director of Max Power magazine at the time, had a Sqn Ldr brother serving in the Regt, so I had a lucky break. They all count. It also helped that I could sit through any bull**** meeting in a hotel or boardroom and remind myself that I could have been listening to one similar under a rain lashed poncho.
My time in the mob came to an abrupt end, but it was only the means to the end. When I was younger, I always thought that my whole life was going to be the Regt. It wasn't. The RAF as an organisation won't miss you, simply because it doesn't learn from its mistakes. Skill and experience are missed every time a job takes 5% longer to achieve than what it might have taken, if you were still there, but its not in the military mindset to recognise it.
We (and I'll hijack the prerogative if you don't mind) are slaves to a system, we take some measure of Pavlovian perverse pleasure at of being downtrodden and working our butts off in exchange from a pat on the back from Wingco because we're tribal, we're hierarchal and because we draw strength from common adversity. And rightly so, we're the ruddy military! But if some Wg Cmdr once told you that you were a 'can do' kinda guy, thats a form of brainwashing, but you don't realise it. In a FTSE 100 company telling the troops they're 'can do' is tantamount to calling them underfunded. If you're underfunded in the 'real' world, you lose the contract ~ just look at the management speeches and memos to workers at Rover in the months before the rug was pulled from under their feet.. they're almost Churchillian "We will fight them in the showrooms..").
Sure, we're all rightly proud of our work ethic and what we can achieve when we need to be flexible and when our backs are to the wall. But whatever you do, don't confuse 'can do' and being flushed with success at an F6000 kudos, with the simple economic fact that you have to be, because Brown has slashed the Defence Budget yet again in order to subsidise the Polish shipyards or roadbuilding in the other emerging Baltic States. And yes, the water level in the bucket gets filled up again, eventually, but lets not confuse modesty with having a sense of our own worth. How often have we whinged about being gapped or coping with someone detached?
My point about the PVR situation was simple. Its asinine to suggest to those who are leaving that they won't be missed.. because they will. They might not be missed by the good and the great here, but they'll sure as hell be missed by SAC Bloggs on the hangar floor who has to do guard training that little more often, and by the section who loses SAC Bloggs that little more often. Your opinion is subjective, mine less so.. if someone wants to PVR, the RAF will let him/her go because there is no system in place to register, measure and react to discord or discontent apart from the PVR register. The attitude is almost like a lover being spurned (".. well, if thats your atitude, we don't want you anyway.. you can go and be (spits).. a civvy!!").
I bet you there will be systems in place to mitigate PVR, but not Applications to PVR. Losing infanteers to private security companies or losing aircrew to BA, all trained at public expense and not doing anything worthwhile about it? Sorry, thats probably negligence and I would love to see a report by any public accounts committee about it. Accepting manpower wastage and loss of experience for what it invariably is.. (ie; sloppy management) and not an excuse to wrap ourselves in the mindset of those who came up with the name 'Sinn Fein', would be a start. Instead of wasting a day doing EO and all that time consuming bollocks, how many stations recognise the fact that people are hacked off and offer 1 day get togethers for people considering PVR and seeing what can be done to change their minds?
Or does the CO still wear new clothes?
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I didn't tell you because a) its none of your business and b) err.. its none of your business 
. There are a few people here though, who know the craic.
Time off? I should be so lucky!
All the best.
. There are a few people here though, who know the craic.Time off? I should be so lucky!
All the best.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I did. No regrets.
Seldom fit,
May I offer you a word of advice based on my personal experience. Everybody else is welcome to take note.
Do not wait for retirement to do all those things you and Mrs S. have spoken of and planned. If you have the cash - Do it now. Live every day to the full.
Reason - one of you might not make it. You then have a very empty world of wishes.
Seldom fit,
May I offer you a word of advice based on my personal experience. Everybody else is welcome to take note.
Do not wait for retirement to do all those things you and Mrs S. have spoken of and planned. If you have the cash - Do it now. Live every day to the full.
Reason - one of you might not make it. You then have a very empty world of wishes.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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James thanks for the advice but rest assured we are already doing as much as we can however the wonga that comes at 55 enables us both to fully retire, clear all our debts and travel the world.............then move into the sunshine of the med for the rest of our days
Last edited by Seldomfitforpurpose; 5th Sep 2007 at 11:49.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I left at my 38 (4 years ago). Leaving was an interesting time, with plenty of conflicting emotions. I approached 38 with an open mind as to whether to stay or go. PMA soon changed that, and even phoned me at home and advised me to leave (they then promoted me during resettlement and wondered why I didn't change my mind).
I was determined not to be bitter on leaving, I've always found it sad that people feel they have to slate the service to justify going. Four years on and it was a great decision, although I still find it strange the way PMA conducted themselves. If I was going to have one serious moan, it was that I was never asked why I was leaving.
Joining the RAF was the best decision I ever made, leaving was a close second.
I was determined not to be bitter on leaving, I've always found it sad that people feel they have to slate the service to justify going. Four years on and it was a great decision, although I still find it strange the way PMA conducted themselves. If I was going to have one serious moan, it was that I was never asked why I was leaving.
Joining the RAF was the best decision I ever made, leaving was a close second.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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The home phone calls turned out to be emotional blackmail. Someone had told PMA that I was bluffing. They were trying to panic me into staying.
Last edited by danieloakworth; 5th Sep 2007 at 16:01.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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I did......................
Letter I put in for reasons of PVR had to be seen by OC Admin, before my PVR was granted, not sure why.
Letter I put in for reasons of PVR had to be seen by OC Admin, before my PVR was granted, not sure why.
Last edited by trap one; 5th Sep 2007 at 21:27.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Daniel, LJR...Ditto.
I was quite suprised that an organisation which invests so heavily in training personnel to a very high standard pays very little attention towards discovering the reasons why its personnel choose to leave before their pension/option point.
I too was blackmailed with the promotion line, the Deskie assuming it was why I was rocking the boat...
I was quite suprised that an organisation which invests so heavily in training personnel to a very high standard pays very little attention towards discovering the reasons why its personnel choose to leave before their pension/option point.
I too was blackmailed with the promotion line, the Deskie assuming it was why I was rocking the boat...
