Neighbours war with wounded soldiers families
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Location: Hampshire physically; Perthshire and Pembrokeshire mentally.
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These people are not fit to breath the same air as our servicemen and women. They should have their houses, wealth and votes gently but firmly removed from them.
Petition signed.
I wonder if any of them is an executive director of the company I work for?
Petition signed.
I wonder if any of them is an executive director of the company I work for?
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Gonzo
I have just had the wife's permission to use that week's fuel allowance to get to this meeting.
I take it, its Regimental Blazer and tie for this meeting so the planning Committee know who the supporters are and certainly shame the objectors (that's if they turn up)
A pre meet would be useful if so where and when?
I take it SSAFA' agent is going to speak at the Planning Meeting as well as the Objectors who is speaking for us or our AARSE friends?
Down in our neck of the woods there is an ex Gurkha Cllr in Folkestone i will be contacting him to ask if he can help.
On other matters served in the Army for 22 years (Inf) never shed a tear on military issues until now.
I take it, its Regimental Blazer and tie for this meeting so the planning Committee know who the supporters are and certainly shame the objectors (that's if they turn up)
A pre meet would be useful if so where and when?
I take it SSAFA' agent is going to speak at the Planning Meeting as well as the Objectors who is speaking for us or our AARSE friends?
Down in our neck of the woods there is an ex Gurkha Cllr in Folkestone i will be contacting him to ask if he can help.
On other matters served in the Army for 22 years (Inf) never shed a tear on military issues until now.
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Agreed a pre-meeting get together seems a good idea, though personally won't have a lot of time beforehand as work interferes.
Anyone know the area & can suggest a good place, hopefully fairly close ?
I am not & never have been military, though worked on miltary aircraft development trials for 14 years, & father was on carriers in WW2, engine fitter on Seafires - retired as crew-chief on Harrier GR5 trials a/c.
Anyone with a shred of decency would be revolted by this issue, as Wondermum put it, we simply cannot let this go...
Anyone know the area & can suggest a good place, hopefully fairly close ?
I am not & never have been military, though worked on miltary aircraft development trials for 14 years, & father was on carriers in WW2, engine fitter on Seafires - retired as crew-chief on Harrier GR5 trials a/c.
Anyone with a shred of decency would be revolted by this issue, as Wondermum put it, we simply cannot let this go...
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civobs
What amazes me, is that not one letter of support for the SSAFA application can be viewed from the RBL or any RHQ from the Army, Navy or Royal Air force and the MoD, which the latter has gone back to its original 1st world War name of Ministry of Donkeys....as i understand that there is a good number of Asses in it.
(a bear of little brain)
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I've got a meeting with my local councillor later, to check what the most effective way of wording a support letter would be (considering I have no direct connection).
But another thought occurred. At post #76 there was a list of businesses registered at addresses in the area and which have filed objections. I just wonder how many of those have 1. got planning permission to run a business from that residential address and 2. pay the relevant business rate on the part of the property used to run the business (and 3. claim part of the household running expenses against tax since they are using it to run a business).
Anybody know how I could find this out - I feel a nasty attack of snitching to the council coming on.
But another thought occurred. At post #76 there was a list of businesses registered at addresses in the area and which have filed objections. I just wonder how many of those have 1. got planning permission to run a business from that residential address and 2. pay the relevant business rate on the part of the property used to run the business (and 3. claim part of the household running expenses against tax since they are using it to run a business).
Anybody know how I could find this out - I feel a nasty attack of snitching to the council coming on.
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This, regarding these businesses, is pretty much what I was getting at - something makes me think there could be a lot of interesting details to be gleaned if they were subjected to close scrutiny.
If by any chance the council didn't feel like pursuing it, I bet the local or national press would !
If by any chance the council didn't feel like pursuing it, I bet the local or national press would !
Good neighbours
MadsDad, your wish to get at some of these smug, comfortable, self centred members of the bourgeoisie is understandable, and in many ways I share your sentiments. Unlike you and I, though, SSAFA have got to co-exist with its neighbours long after we have passed onto other matters. As Tigs2 has enjoined us, concentrate on the matter in hand, support this application with a massive show of moral support from those serving, who have served, or who have never served but know what is right and what is wrong. The latter does not include the Planning Department of Mole Valley DC it would seem if minded to oppose SSAFA's application.
weevehearditb4, I agree,the support from the service associations has been deafening in its silence. You would have thought that they would be mindful of supporting their sister association, but it seems to be a case of "you in your small corner and me in mine"! The same thing struck me regarding the campaign to admit Mr Pun VC to the UK, and his righteous pleas for equal pensions for equal service, as well as right of UK abode for ex service Gurkhas. Not a word of support from the RBL to my knowledge.
I strongly suspect that the power of the Internet, instantly reflecting the outrage felt by "veterans" of all ranks and branches, those serving also of all ranks and branches, and civilians who can see past their navels and the telly, is rapidly superseding the safe boring monthly reading of association minutes at the Dog and Duck before turning to the general knowledge quiz! The armed forces are at war, SSAFA seems to know it, I'm not sure if the other service associations have geared themselves up to that fact. If they don't they will end up as much relics as the other contents of our military museums!
weevehearditb4, I agree,the support from the service associations has been deafening in its silence. You would have thought that they would be mindful of supporting their sister association, but it seems to be a case of "you in your small corner and me in mine"! The same thing struck me regarding the campaign to admit Mr Pun VC to the UK, and his righteous pleas for equal pensions for equal service, as well as right of UK abode for ex service Gurkhas. Not a word of support from the RBL to my knowledge.
I strongly suspect that the power of the Internet, instantly reflecting the outrage felt by "veterans" of all ranks and branches, those serving also of all ranks and branches, and civilians who can see past their navels and the telly, is rapidly superseding the safe boring monthly reading of association minutes at the Dog and Duck before turning to the general knowledge quiz! The armed forces are at war, SSAFA seems to know it, I'm not sure if the other service associations have geared themselves up to that fact. If they don't they will end up as much relics as the other contents of our military museums!
Petitions
just a small thought from one with experience of planning objections:
Do not place too much value on a petition. The planners will count it as one objection no matter how many signatures are on it. Individual argued letters are what get their attention.
Do not place too much value on a petition. The planners will count it as one objection no matter how many signatures are on it. Individual argued letters are what get their attention.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
From Headley Court to Gray's Lane is 2.7 miles and an 8 minute journey. The route is via Farm Lane.
Chalk Inn is the nearest hotel at 3.4 miles.
Now there is a Travel Inn 3.8 miles away but you still go down Farm Lane. The Premier Inn is 6.2 miles away with a second Travel Inn 6 miles away down the A243.
Clearly No 36 is closest to Headley Court and has all the seclusion that distressed relatives might need. It would also offer a very private place for recovering patients for their initial public outings.
Chalk Inn is the nearest hotel at 3.4 miles.
Now there is a Travel Inn 3.8 miles away but you still go down Farm Lane. The Premier Inn is 6.2 miles away with a second Travel Inn 6 miles away down the A243.
Clearly No 36 is closest to Headley Court and has all the seclusion that distressed relatives might need. It would also offer a very private place for recovering patients for their initial public outings.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...nmarine219.xml -- The chap in this story (pte Herbert) is actually a good mate of mine, makes me sick to think of people trying to block objections for his family to go and stay down there whilst visiting him!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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MumsDad, Wevehearditb4
Speakers arranged on the legal side, and a couple of pretty good, I believe elequent guys to push our case (ARRSE, PPRuNe, EGoat etc) should the need arise. I understand your sentiments MumsDad, One of the main objections is that the facility would compromise what is a purely residential and domestic road. We clearly know that this is not the case, as a search of businesses has indicated. It took me two days of trying not to touch the keyboard in order that i could come back down from the Stratosphere.
As Chugalug2 says, stay focused on fighting the objections. Even if there is a refusal on Aug 1st, that is by no means the end of the matter, it will then go to an independant review done by somebody outside the area, which will be very advantageous to us. I understand your sentiments. As a businessman I know how easy it would be to shop these guys, but the result would probably only make me feel better. Keep up the support.
Weveheardit
A recce of a pub has been done inAshtead, and I am there doing a leaflet drop midweek, so i will update you.
Mike
You've got the bug for this now haven't you
Have you not been to colder climates or am i loosing track of time? It might be an idea for you to liaise with Part Time Pongo on ARRSE with ref to your Int, or I can cross post it for you if you are busy. Let me know.
Blue Team are nipping at the heels of red team (and ready to take a big bite out of their A**e
Speakers arranged on the legal side, and a couple of pretty good, I believe elequent guys to push our case (ARRSE, PPRuNe, EGoat etc) should the need arise. I understand your sentiments MumsDad, One of the main objections is that the facility would compromise what is a purely residential and domestic road. We clearly know that this is not the case, as a search of businesses has indicated. It took me two days of trying not to touch the keyboard in order that i could come back down from the Stratosphere.
As Chugalug2 says, stay focused on fighting the objections. Even if there is a refusal on Aug 1st, that is by no means the end of the matter, it will then go to an independant review done by somebody outside the area, which will be very advantageous to us. I understand your sentiments. As a businessman I know how easy it would be to shop these guys, but the result would probably only make me feel better. Keep up the support.
Weveheardit
A recce of a pub has been done inAshtead, and I am there doing a leaflet drop midweek, so i will update you.
Mike
You've got the bug for this now haven't you
Have you not been to colder climates or am i loosing track of time? It might be an idea for you to liaise with Part Time Pongo on ARRSE with ref to your Int, or I can cross post it for you if you are busy. Let me know.Blue Team are nipping at the heels of red team (and ready to take a big bite out of their A**e
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Tigs,
Regardless of whether a number of residents are already running businesses from their homes on Grays Lane, the big point is that the SSAFA home would not be a business. Indeed, they should be staying as guests of SSAFA and invited to make a donation towards running costs. My folks (both retired) are short of cash and so if my kids go and stay with them, we hand across seom cash to cover their food and laundry costs so that my parents aren't out of pocket. That does not make them a boarding house...
Regardless of whether a number of residents are already running businesses from their homes on Grays Lane, the big point is that the SSAFA home would not be a business. Indeed, they should be staying as guests of SSAFA and invited to make a donation towards running costs. My folks (both retired) are short of cash and so if my kids go and stay with them, we hand across seom cash to cover their food and laundry costs so that my parents aren't out of pocket. That does not make them a boarding house...
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Baskitt
Where have I ever suggested that the SSAFA facility would be a business?? All the letters I have posted to the council so far have been fighting the objections that say that it is a business. However be aware that legal advice is that certain elements of SSAFA may be construed as a business and that is why neither myself or the guys on ARRSE are even going there. Who has mentioned boarding house etc? Not me!
Where have I ever suggested that the SSAFA facility would be a business?? All the letters I have posted to the council so far have been fighting the objections that say that it is a business. However be aware that legal advice is that certain elements of SSAFA may be construed as a business and that is why neither myself or the guys on ARRSE are even going there. Who has mentioned boarding house etc? Not me!
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i think due process is that all interested parties have a right to speak.
I've been mainly posting on ARRSE. I am slightly hopeful at the draft recommendation as it leaves wriggle room for council members to approve despite a recommendation to refuse (I've been party to writing reports and objections for planning committees) although planning committees have an occasional habit of ignoring the officer's recommendations anyway! Objectors (third parties) are not allowed to appeal against a planning decision but they could apply for judicial review. The pressure should be kept up anyway!
A couple of snippets from the ARRSE thread:
1. Many of the objectors do not live on the Headley Court to Grays Lane route that would be used by a minibus or private car. ARRSErs have carried out traffic counts and a recce of Grays Lane and it is hardly a car-free single-track road.
2. The neighbourhood is not protected by any local plan policies. Claims that it is somehow uniquely worthy of restrictions on development are wide of the mark, at least in planning terms.
3. One of the objectors cc'd his letter to the Ashtead Park Management Company, indicating some co-ordination of effort.
4. This is a low-density neighbourhood. I reckon most of the objectors are beyond the 20m neighbour notification distance that applies to notification of planning application. It would be interesting to see how dispersed they actually are.
5. A leafleting campaign is planned with a very effective leaflet showing the grievously wounded Capt Norton RLC GC and his wife Sue.
The Planning Inspectorate states that 30% of appeals are upheld. Even if planning committee refuse the application, there is a good chance that a high-profile appeal will succeed.
Last edited by JessTheDog; 21st Jul 2007 at 22:02.
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Tigs2
Many thanks for that.
I strongly suggest that some liaison between AArse, E-Goat and PPRuNe takes place and the Chief Executive or the Democratic Services at Mole Valley DC regarding speakers at this meeting. Having gone through major local authority planning issues (on more than one occasion) its best to prevent chaos on the night.
I also strongly urge anyone who attends the meeting contains themselves even if the blood pressure rises to dangerous levels. The best thing to do is excuse yourself go into the street and shout B***********s and then go back in, as the chairman can remove the public and I have seen this implemented on more than one occasion if things get out of hand.
It may be best to ask just how many people can fit into the council chambers public gallery before we all turn up as I have witnessed people down corridors before now whispering what’s going on etc.
If Mr Pun VC is attending then ensure the council knows this, so arrangements can be suitably made for this gentleman beforehand.
What we do not want is a deferred/delegated decision or a site meeting…a straight forward yes or no will do. A yes would definitely be in order.
I have never seen or heard of a report retraction and as this will be in the open on the 25th let’s wait and see what’s in it.
I strongly suggest that some liaison between AArse, E-Goat and PPRuNe takes place and the Chief Executive or the Democratic Services at Mole Valley DC regarding speakers at this meeting. Having gone through major local authority planning issues (on more than one occasion) its best to prevent chaos on the night.
I also strongly urge anyone who attends the meeting contains themselves even if the blood pressure rises to dangerous levels. The best thing to do is excuse yourself go into the street and shout B***********s and then go back in, as the chairman can remove the public and I have seen this implemented on more than one occasion if things get out of hand.
It may be best to ask just how many people can fit into the council chambers public gallery before we all turn up as I have witnessed people down corridors before now whispering what’s going on etc.
If Mr Pun VC is attending then ensure the council knows this, so arrangements can be suitably made for this gentleman beforehand.
What we do not want is a deferred/delegated decision or a site meeting…a straight forward yes or no will do. A yes would definitely be in order.
I have never seen or heard of a report retraction and as this will be in the open on the 25th let’s wait and see what’s in it.
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Weevhearditb4
Good points. You reminded me of a discussion I have had with someone who was speaking to the SSAFA lawer who was at the original meeting in June where 80 objectors turned up. When the lawer stood up to deliver the case for SSAFA the crowd (led by APEM i am sure) all started booing and jeering (so much for respectable gentlefolk then!)to an extent that the lawer could not be heard. He sat down and then tried again, every time he stood up the crowd starting jeering. He was never heard. I think if that occurs on the night we will have to exercise every ounce of self control we have. We have briefed any speakers that if this does occur, to stand there until the mob are either out of breath, or dry throats stop them. We can hand them bottled water so that they continue until severe throat strain will shut them all up This could be a difficult encounter with the Nimby's.
Good points. You reminded me of a discussion I have had with someone who was speaking to the SSAFA lawer who was at the original meeting in June where 80 objectors turned up. When the lawer stood up to deliver the case for SSAFA the crowd (led by APEM i am sure) all started booing and jeering (so much for respectable gentlefolk then!)to an extent that the lawer could not be heard. He sat down and then tried again, every time he stood up the crowd starting jeering. He was never heard. I think if that occurs on the night we will have to exercise every ounce of self control we have. We have briefed any speakers that if this does occur, to stand there until the mob are either out of breath, or dry throats stop them. We can hand them bottled water so that they continue until severe throat strain will shut them all up
This could be a difficult encounter with the Nimby's.
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Just to let You know that I have just been told by an Ashtead resident that there is already a lot of support for SSAFA from the residents of the village and think the "nimby's" are bringing the Village name down. The person who told me is in a position to know these facts!
Also that Southern Counties Radio spent a long time discussing this topic last week on the morning show.
Looks like the publicity machine is rolling..
Cheer's
M5DND
Also that Southern Counties Radio spent a long time discussing this topic last week on the morning show.
Looks like the publicity machine is rolling..
Cheer's
M5DND
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Google Earth has hires imagery of Gray's Lane. No 36 appears to be 2nd from the bottom with a brown roof and some grey. Next, to the north, is a red roofed house. The next house, in Google, is under construction. There is a second under construction further up the road too.
On Google I counted 30 vehicles; it looks to be about 3pm.
If you use tilt control you will also see that Crampshaw lane is on a reverse slope so No 36 would probably not be visible. Railwood Road also appears to offer an alternative route to Gray's Lane.
Chalk Lane appears to be th ebest route to Headley Court and Dene Road the route from the A24. In other words Dene Road would be used only for the initial route to Gray's Lane unless people went to Headley Court first.
On Google I counted 30 vehicles; it looks to be about 3pm.
If you use tilt control you will also see that Crampshaw lane is on a reverse slope so No 36 would probably not be visible. Railwood Road also appears to offer an alternative route to Gray's Lane.
Chalk Lane appears to be th ebest route to Headley Court and Dene Road the route from the A24. In other words Dene Road would be used only for the initial route to Gray's Lane unless people went to Headley Court first.