Neighbours war with wounded soldiers families
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I have just spoken with CargoSales. Bless him, he has been there all day and is going to stay till about 6pm. He has walked up and down the road. There are some very large extentions being built (lots of noise apparently)and building works going on behind 18 (the cattery). There are 4 cars parked on the road outside number 36 and many houses have more than 2 cars. He says it is the perfect place for families of, to find some stress relief and peace. He asked if anyone knows which particular properties were complaining about noise? Any clues?
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Just found this on the MOD website posted yesterday
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...entrevideo.htm
May I suggest that The Under Secretary of State for Defence, Derek Twigg may have an interest...
SIA
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...entrevideo.htm
May I suggest that The Under Secretary of State for Defence, Derek Twigg may have an interest...
SIA
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Reply from MP
10/10 for promptness - the guy is doing the business at least.
Reply as follows:
Thank you. The answer is no but I'll chase it up (Re my Q about Cpl Rai). I plan a vist to Headley Court (I was last there 20 years ago as a new entry medical officer). In the meantime I've sent a note to Paul Beresford who I'm sure will be able to advise.
Best wishes,
Andrew
Interesting to know he's an ex-M.O.
CargoSales - keep up the good work mate! Well done!
Reply as follows:
Thank you. The answer is no but I'll chase it up (Re my Q about Cpl Rai). I plan a vist to Headley Court (I was last there 20 years ago as a new entry medical officer). In the meantime I've sent a note to Paul Beresford who I'm sure will be able to advise.
Best wishes,
Andrew
Interesting to know he's an ex-M.O.
CargoSales - keep up the good work mate! Well done!
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Sitrep from Cargo Sales (on site now!)
For those who do visit the area there is a strict 20 mph speed limit - which the residents Glibly ignore
No 38 which complained about potential polution has just had a huge smokey bonfire in their back garden! Video evidence obtained.
For those who do visit the area there is a strict 20 mph speed limit - which the residents Glibly ignore
No 38 which complained about potential polution has just had a huge smokey bonfire in their back garden! Video evidence obtained.
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Just sent by EMAIL........
I am writing to register my support for the planning application submitted by the SSAFA organisation with respect to the above property. Whilst not a resident of the area I am a recently retired serviceman who has undertaken operational tours from the Falklands up to the more recent conflict in Iraq and can readily identify with the need for the facility that SSAFA would like to offer in Grays Lane. I also lived at Headley Court in the years before the M25 motorway cut a swathe across the horizon opposite the house where I lived.
With respect to the concerns raised by local residents, I would like to offer the following comments on two of the concerns that have been raised.
TRAFFIC
A quick perusal of the area in question suggests that, alongside the properties and business already in the locale, the 6 flat residence in Grays Lane would result in a relatively inconsequential increase in vehicles using the thoroughfare. Without wishing to appear flippant or emotive, one wonders which of the local residential highways and byways, not to mention the M25 which carves its way across communities throughout the region, are used regularly and without thought or concern as to the noise and inconvenience, by those citing an increase in traffic amongst their objections to the hostel in Grays Lane. We all value our privacy and peace and quiet, however vehicular traffic is a part of modern life; as long as we all use motor vehicles we will all inflict a little of the side effects on each other. A little tolerance in this respect would not go amiss I’m sure you would agree.
NOISE
It is difficult to conceptualise just what sort of noise problem the residence would generate or just what it is those who have registered ‘noise’ amongst their concerns are imagining will take place there. Notwithstanding the fact that those using the hostel would be families tending to the needs of injured relatives and hardly in a mood or spirit to participate in any noise making activities such as playing loud music or partying, they will also come from a fairly small subset of society and will almost certainly be using the hostel under a range of terms and conditions. One of these will, I am sure, be the withdrawal of the use of the hostel from those who break those conditions. That, I would suggest, is a reasonably clear incentive to treat the property and the neighbourhood with respect, something the vast majority of service families do as a matter of course anyway.
It is also worth pointing out that service personnel do not just serve their country overseas, although this of course is where the headline operations are occurring at the moment. Service men and women have recently been seen helping flood victims, tackling fires and, in my living memory, removing rubbish sacks from the roadside. Heaven forbid that any act of nature or industrial action would seriously inflict itself upon Grays Lane and its immediate environs, but if it did the residents could rest assured that the good people of the armed forces would be there to assist them in their hour of need. I implore those who have expressed concerns over the Hostel for RAF Headley Court to look into their souls and come to the assistance of service personnel in their time of need which is with us today.
Yours sincerely
I am writing to register my support for the planning application submitted by the SSAFA organisation with respect to the above property. Whilst not a resident of the area I am a recently retired serviceman who has undertaken operational tours from the Falklands up to the more recent conflict in Iraq and can readily identify with the need for the facility that SSAFA would like to offer in Grays Lane. I also lived at Headley Court in the years before the M25 motorway cut a swathe across the horizon opposite the house where I lived.
With respect to the concerns raised by local residents, I would like to offer the following comments on two of the concerns that have been raised.
TRAFFIC
A quick perusal of the area in question suggests that, alongside the properties and business already in the locale, the 6 flat residence in Grays Lane would result in a relatively inconsequential increase in vehicles using the thoroughfare. Without wishing to appear flippant or emotive, one wonders which of the local residential highways and byways, not to mention the M25 which carves its way across communities throughout the region, are used regularly and without thought or concern as to the noise and inconvenience, by those citing an increase in traffic amongst their objections to the hostel in Grays Lane. We all value our privacy and peace and quiet, however vehicular traffic is a part of modern life; as long as we all use motor vehicles we will all inflict a little of the side effects on each other. A little tolerance in this respect would not go amiss I’m sure you would agree.
NOISE
It is difficult to conceptualise just what sort of noise problem the residence would generate or just what it is those who have registered ‘noise’ amongst their concerns are imagining will take place there. Notwithstanding the fact that those using the hostel would be families tending to the needs of injured relatives and hardly in a mood or spirit to participate in any noise making activities such as playing loud music or partying, they will also come from a fairly small subset of society and will almost certainly be using the hostel under a range of terms and conditions. One of these will, I am sure, be the withdrawal of the use of the hostel from those who break those conditions. That, I would suggest, is a reasonably clear incentive to treat the property and the neighbourhood with respect, something the vast majority of service families do as a matter of course anyway.
It is also worth pointing out that service personnel do not just serve their country overseas, although this of course is where the headline operations are occurring at the moment. Service men and women have recently been seen helping flood victims, tackling fires and, in my living memory, removing rubbish sacks from the roadside. Heaven forbid that any act of nature or industrial action would seriously inflict itself upon Grays Lane and its immediate environs, but if it did the residents could rest assured that the good people of the armed forces would be there to assist them in their hour of need. I implore those who have expressed concerns over the Hostel for RAF Headley Court to look into their souls and come to the assistance of service personnel in their time of need which is with us today.
Yours sincerely
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Split Brain
You need to avopid use of the term 'Hostel' when referring to No 36, that is one of the main reasons for objection. SSAFA have clearly stated it was never going to be a Hostel, it will also not be turned into Flats. My understanding will be a house for visiting families to stay at.
One of the boys on the other sites wrote this
We have been out to Afganistan to fight the Taliban,
But some people down in Surrey don’t seem to give a damn,
Cause when we come home wounded and need some loving care,
The sights of us and ours makes the locals start to swear.
For its bugger this and bugger that and soldiers stay away,
We like our houses as they are so keep them all away.
How can they get some sleep at night when they don’t give a damn,
When all a wounded soldier wants is a visit from his mam,
For its bugger this and bugger that and soldiers stay away,
We don’t want terrorist around here, so keep the troops away.
The message we have got for them,is they can go to hell,
If they don’t want the troops round there,they can always sell,
For its bugger this and bugger that and soldiers stay away,
We don’t want their family’s visiting,even for a day.
Don’t mock the men that guard you while your sleeping in your bed,
Cause one day it might be your son,lying there half dead.
And when you want to visit him,and the locals all protest,
You will see that none of them have medals on their chest,
Cause they are all civilians and can not understand,
Why the young men of this country go to fight the taliban.
So think again,you Surrey folk,about these brave young men,
And let their familys visit them and spend a little time,
For they have served their country,not commited any crime.
So its bugger you and your spouses,
Do you really think more of your houses?
Than the brave young men of this land,
Who only want a helping hand.
_________________
Copyright Mr R AirBorne 2007!
Says it all really, a nice update on Tommy this
You need to avopid use of the term 'Hostel' when referring to No 36, that is one of the main reasons for objection. SSAFA have clearly stated it was never going to be a Hostel, it will also not be turned into Flats. My understanding will be a house for visiting families to stay at.
One of the boys on the other sites wrote this
We have been out to Afganistan to fight the Taliban,
But some people down in Surrey don’t seem to give a damn,
Cause when we come home wounded and need some loving care,
The sights of us and ours makes the locals start to swear.
For its bugger this and bugger that and soldiers stay away,
We like our houses as they are so keep them all away.
How can they get some sleep at night when they don’t give a damn,
When all a wounded soldier wants is a visit from his mam,
For its bugger this and bugger that and soldiers stay away,
We don’t want terrorist around here, so keep the troops away.
The message we have got for them,is they can go to hell,
If they don’t want the troops round there,they can always sell,
For its bugger this and bugger that and soldiers stay away,
We don’t want their family’s visiting,even for a day.
Don’t mock the men that guard you while your sleeping in your bed,
Cause one day it might be your son,lying there half dead.
And when you want to visit him,and the locals all protest,
You will see that none of them have medals on their chest,
Cause they are all civilians and can not understand,
Why the young men of this country go to fight the taliban.
So think again,you Surrey folk,about these brave young men,
And let their familys visit them and spend a little time,
For they have served their country,not commited any crime.
So its bugger you and your spouses,
Do you really think more of your houses?
Than the brave young men of this land,
Who only want a helping hand.
_________________
Copyright Mr R AirBorne 2007!
Says it all really, a nice update on Tommy this
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Damn, its already been sent Tigs, sorry mate.
Nonetheless, I hope its the sentiment that my letter carries that is considered important, and not the misplaced use of a descriptor for the property.
Cracking ode BTW, well done the author.
Nonetheless, I hope its the sentiment that my letter carries that is considered important, and not the misplaced use of a descriptor for the property.
Cracking ode BTW, well done the author.
Letter sent to the delightful Ms Westphall, have not reiterated the argument, just asked that the proposed objections be rejected after following the subject via the media and the net.
I've just contacted my MP,Dr Hywel Francis regarding this & will post any reply.
He was pretty good in his efforts regarding WO Pun so I'm hoping he'll chip in his four penneth on this one.
He was pretty good in his efforts regarding WO Pun so I'm hoping he'll chip in his four penneth on this one.
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A much better effort than my clumsy affair here...
http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/showp...4&postcount=77
Petiton signed BTW.
http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/showp...4&postcount=77
Petiton signed BTW.
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Weevhearditb4
Mmmmm
Did the fire Brigade attend this site meeting? Did any of the agencies object?
Looking at the SAFFA house it appears that there is plenty of off road parking anyway.
Having dealt with planners in my neck of the woods their refusals beggar belief at times. The Mole Valley local authority decision report recommendation to refuse is also bizarre given the circumstances.
I will say it once again, this issue is of more than local importance i would suggest people look at the call in process if the committee is minded to stand by the officers report.
Incidentally most councils run scared of developers as they can take their case to appeal which is dealt with by the planning inspectorate in Bristol. I wonder if the officer writing this report has indicated the costs if its refused.
I wonder what stance the planning committee will take on this issue - and hopefully they will remain neutral as can be because if they take the view that outsiders are getting involved with their planning syetm and vote for refusal they will be playing a dangerous legal game.
Did the fire Brigade attend this site meeting? Did any of the agencies object?
Looking at the SAFFA house it appears that there is plenty of off road parking anyway.
Having dealt with planners in my neck of the woods their refusals beggar belief at times. The Mole Valley local authority decision report recommendation to refuse is also bizarre given the circumstances.
I will say it once again, this issue is of more than local importance i would suggest people look at the call in process if the committee is minded to stand by the officers report.
Incidentally most councils run scared of developers as they can take their case to appeal which is dealt with by the planning inspectorate in Bristol. I wonder if the officer writing this report has indicated the costs if its refused.
I wonder what stance the planning committee will take on this issue - and hopefully they will remain neutral as can be because if they take the view that outsiders are getting involved with their planning syetm and vote for refusal they will be playing a dangerous legal game.
weevhearditb4......
The more I read about "The Wednesbury principle" the more I am convinced that there would be a case to answer here..... If indeed the decision goes the wrong way...
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Wondermum, please check PMs
WasNaeMe
Been there, done that in another sphere. While it sounds fine, the hurdle of unreasonableness set by UK judges to apply the Wednesbury Principle is so high that you effectively have to prove an action to be so unreasonable that only a brain-damaged chimp smacked out of his head on a cocktail of crack cocaine and smack would have made that decision on those facts.
WasNaeMe
Been there, done that in another sphere. While it sounds fine, the hurdle of unreasonableness set by UK judges to apply the Wednesbury Principle is so high that you effectively have to prove an action to be so unreasonable that only a brain-damaged chimp smacked out of his head on a cocktail of crack cocaine and smack would have made that decision on those facts.
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An unashamed boing!
Go to
http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/n...558300.0.0.php
And scroll down to read the comments of Maggie, a resident of Ashtead.
Go to
http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/n...558300.0.0.php
And scroll down to read the comments of Maggie, a resident of Ashtead.
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Following a link from this site I came across the Mole Valley District Council home page which has the heading:
"Travellers Needs in East Surrey Identified for Next 10 Years"
This lists the number and distribution of new pitches for gypsies, travellers and travelling showmen in the region for the next 10 years.
I seriously hope the planning application goes through as this would be a statement to the country from Mole Valley District Council that a traveller has priority over injured service personnel and their families in their District.
I am trying to keep my emotions in check but it is hard. I'm currently on a course with the USAF and I told them of this story. Everyone (active duty, retired or civilian) was disgusted and asked how this could happen. They are right - how can this happen?
Scapegoat
"Travellers Needs in East Surrey Identified for Next 10 Years"
This lists the number and distribution of new pitches for gypsies, travellers and travelling showmen in the region for the next 10 years.
I seriously hope the planning application goes through as this would be a statement to the country from Mole Valley District Council that a traveller has priority over injured service personnel and their families in their District.
I am trying to keep my emotions in check but it is hard. I'm currently on a course with the USAF and I told them of this story. Everyone (active duty, retired or civilian) was disgusted and asked how this could happen. They are right - how can this happen?
Scapegoat
Last edited by ScapegoatisaSolution; 20th Jul 2007 at 02:29.
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Dear all
I have just requested all the planing history lists for all for the objectors houses from Mole Valley Council. They are duty bound to send them to me.
The planing history for each house gives a complete history of the house and any past planning applications and it costs nothing. i suppose that they could enforce the high cost of searching for this under the FOI(A) but in light of the vexatious and vociferous minority of the lane in question i suspect Mole Valley council may oblige.
Surely this Local Authority is obliged under law of its Duty of Care and as Headley Court is close then that may well apply.
I may have missed something in all of the various threads...how far as the crow flies is Hedley court from the SAFFA house?
I have also asked for the names of the Cllrs on the planning committee as i intend to write to each one by e mail and send them to mole Valley Council who have to pass them on. All Cllrs should read letters of support and of course the objectors as well - and in my experience they are too lazy to do this and rely on the Officers report like a verbal statement at the meeting 200 people have objected and 300 have supported this application, if this is the case then the Wednesbury principle will apply as when i write to the Cllrs i am going to remind them of their legal duties.
Just in case anyone has been misled by the opposition this local authority can accept letters, e-mails and petitions for support right up to the day of the committee meeting.
I have just requested all the planing history lists for all for the objectors houses from Mole Valley Council. They are duty bound to send them to me.
The planing history for each house gives a complete history of the house and any past planning applications and it costs nothing. i suppose that they could enforce the high cost of searching for this under the FOI(A) but in light of the vexatious and vociferous minority of the lane in question i suspect Mole Valley council may oblige.
Surely this Local Authority is obliged under law of its Duty of Care and as Headley Court is close then that may well apply.
I may have missed something in all of the various threads...how far as the crow flies is Hedley court from the SAFFA house?
I have also asked for the names of the Cllrs on the planning committee as i intend to write to each one by e mail and send them to mole Valley Council who have to pass them on. All Cllrs should read letters of support and of course the objectors as well - and in my experience they are too lazy to do this and rely on the Officers report like a verbal statement at the meeting 200 people have objected and 300 have supported this application, if this is the case then the Wednesbury principle will apply as when i write to the Cllrs i am going to remind them of their legal duties.
Just in case anyone has been misled by the opposition this local authority can accept letters, e-mails and petitions for support right up to the day of the committee meeting.