RAF Fitness Test - Soon to be twice a year!
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Minimum Fitness
I have not read all the threads so appols if alreasy covered, From what I have read, the main stream seems to be if we should be doing the test, how often and what level at. My problem is this: if the point is to get the entire Service to a level that is fit to fight then why don't we do that ie all get to one single level. If CAS wishes that, then it should be irrespective of age and gender and based on a minimum level- otherwise the whole concept if false. The police, fire and ambulance Services have a minimum level irrespecitvie of age and gender, why can't we? The fact is, if we are all suppposed to carry out the sme task in Iraq / Stan, then we should all be expected to reach the same level of fitness? Or, as usual, am I missing the point? 
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Might one respectfully suggest that you might with advantage replace one of your weekly physical training sessions with remedial English? You could even try a spillchucker (sic).
The arguement is always lost when it gets down to silly posts about spelling.
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Fawkes wrote:Morale is a fascinating and delicate plant to cultivate: it is what PTIs should be for, rather than fitness testing.
It strikes me that the posts of the "moaners" (as you inaccurately term those who disagree with you) are almost universally articulate, to the point and well punctuated. Those speaking for the fitties, by contrast, are splenetic, rambling and border on illiteracy. I wonder if there is a correlation?
It strikes me that the posts of the "moaners" (as you inaccurately term those who disagree with you) are almost universally articulate, to the point and well punctuated. Those speaking for the fitties, by contrast, are splenetic, rambling and border on illiteracy. I wonder if there is a correlation?
I'm sure that Fawkes isn't advocating a morale trade group. If so, at what point does he get docked salary for not doing his (presumably) supervisory/managerial role innefficiently?
I shall defer comment on the final paragraph. His pen is obviously mightier than the running shoe.
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Chicken Leg, please remember that in the recent past, there was no requirement to actually pass the fitness test, all that was required was to take part. The injury is well documented in my records by the way, but as it did not keep me from performing my primary duties, and I didn't complain, I was not medically downgraded. As for affecting others around me, I don't think I am the only (nor loudest) bleater, and I have a much more purposeful primary job than playing rugby, and work in a better team environment than a bunch of buttock hugging, peanut chasing twerps.
Fawkes, you have a good point there.
toddbabe, at my age, the cycle test was the required thing for the last 6 years or so, but then they changed the rules, and back to the run it was (or wasn't).
I suggest a poll of workplaces around the UK military, of how many people are off work through injury or other reasons, and how many of them are 'sports injuries'. I don't think the outcome will suprise the rotund brigade.
Fawkes, you have a good point there.
toddbabe, at my age, the cycle test was the required thing for the last 6 years or so, but then they changed the rules, and back to the run it was (or wasn't).
I suggest a poll of workplaces around the UK military, of how many people are off work through injury or other reasons, and how many of them are 'sports injuries'. I don't think the outcome will suprise the rotund brigade.
As an aside, I would rather be a taxpayer reliant on an aggresive, youthful and dynamic military where 2.8% of decent sports injuries each year are preferable to a comfier 1.2%, where 'fell out of the bathchair', 'tripped over Playstation cable', 'violent tofu reaction', 'sofa fused to anus' or ' skin reaction: excessive hemp content in underpants suspected' become the norm.
Mildly edited for the benefit of the spelling-stasi. I request that 39,364 similar offences be taken into consideration and beg the board's collective forgiveness.
Last edited by Al R; 12th Aug 2007 at 07:33.
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I totally agree, with everyone who has commented!
YES we all need to be fit for current OPS.
YES we need to increase our fitness as a whole service.
YES it is only an hour twice a year.
YES a proper standard needs to be defined as a minimum for everyone regardless of age or sex.
HOWEVER it is getting to be that a week doesnt go past without going into the red for some currency, CCS, Fit Test, Med, Dunker, WHT, Dinghy Drills, STASS, Abandonment Drills, Swim Test, Day Fly, Night Fly, OP Fit Test, Jabs etc etc. (Im sure some smart arse will say sort out my admin and it is always sorted)
It is just getting a real distraction on our primary jobs. Just my 2 minutes worth!
YES we all need to be fit for current OPS.
YES we need to increase our fitness as a whole service.
YES it is only an hour twice a year.
YES a proper standard needs to be defined as a minimum for everyone regardless of age or sex.
HOWEVER it is getting to be that a week doesnt go past without going into the red for some currency, CCS, Fit Test, Med, Dunker, WHT, Dinghy Drills, STASS, Abandonment Drills, Swim Test, Day Fly, Night Fly, OP Fit Test, Jabs etc etc. (Im sure some smart arse will say sort out my admin and it is always sorted)
It is just getting a real distraction on our primary jobs. Just my 2 minutes worth!
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R 21 - You're spot-on matey.....
'HOWEVER it is getting to be that a week doesn't go past without going into the red for some currency, CCS, Fit Test, Med, Dunker, WHT, Dinghy Drills, STASS, Abandonment Drills, Swim Test, Day Fly, Night Fly, OP Fit Test, Jabs etc etc. (Im sure some smart arse will say sort out my admin and it is always sorted)'
Dead right!....that's why I'm buggering off into civvy flying. More wedge and none of this crap!
Dead right!....that's why I'm buggering off into civvy flying. More wedge and none of this crap!
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Has not attitude towards fitness always played a part in an annual appraisal?
Must admit I liked your comparison/rant with those who do education during work time.
My suggestion is thus:
An RAFET - each year members of the RAF will be tested to see if they are educationally fit to continue their service, naturally, following the precedent of the Fitness test it will be irrelevant to their operational role. Starting off gently there will be a mandatory requirement for all servicemen and women to achieve at least a ‘C’ grade pass in a GCSE subject each year. Remedial night-school and daytime classes will be compulsory – any serviceman that fails to show general improvement in Latin irregular verbs over a three year period will be booted out the service regardless of their operational capabilities. Any complaints concerning this policy will be ignored and those responsible will be punished for ‘thought crime’ through use of the Annual Reporting System
Standards will be continuously monitored and revised with the eventual aim of providing the RAF with a pool of bright alert PhDs that can be employed at a moment’s notice around the world to engage the enemy in a series of high-level debates and discussions that would be beyond the capacities of current service personnel.
There will be no excuse for non compliance with the standards required for the RAFET – no extra time away from the workplace will be provided and all revision will be carried out in the service member’s free time as he/she should be constantly exercising his/her mental alertness within the standards required for the leaner, better educated Royal Air Force. Operational tours are to be arranged around the RAFET and back-to-back tours will provide no exemptions.
Promotion in all branches in future will depend on RAFET results rather than the current arbitrary system of promoting people who are actually any good at their job.
An example of this would be the promotion ban to be enforced on the RAF Regiment trade SAC/Cpl until such time as individuals are able succinctly explain Einstein’s Theory of Relativity in Russian within a delineated time scale which will be age/sex related.
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With regards to your RAFET idea, I know its supposed to present you in a sparkling and witty light. But whereas there are those who might spend their entire active service sitting on their backsides simply blanking out data references on sortie videos, I'm sure that equally, there are those who do need to be fit. So, perhaps there could have an unfitness test? Maybe those who have forgotten that fitness was part of the deal when they joined up could tell us exactly how unfit they need to be in order to justify their salary, and if they have no specific military attributes, why we couldn't simply employ minimum wage school leavers to copy and paste IRT briefings from other published sources?
And its funny, but I'm sure that appearance and bearing appeared in my early assessments, long before 1991. Bearing in mind of course, that there is a difference between being medically and physically fit; a chap of poor bearing was a fat slob who never went to the gym.. a metaphor, a little like being 'socially active'. It was always commented upon in the main narrative too, about a chap's attitude to fitness. Perhaps that was just RAF Regt reports mind where there used to be anyway, no creep. If they were never commented upon in yours, that might explain your aversion to activity and lack of focus.
Apart from that, thanks for the effort that went into your reply, I appreciate fine humour.
Al.
PS: I don't do 'rant'. The good lord allocated me a finite amount of heartbeats and I save them for the gym, not messageboards.
And its funny, but I'm sure that appearance and bearing appeared in my early assessments, long before 1991. Bearing in mind of course, that there is a difference between being medically and physically fit; a chap of poor bearing was a fat slob who never went to the gym.. a metaphor, a little like being 'socially active'. It was always commented upon in the main narrative too, about a chap's attitude to fitness. Perhaps that was just RAF Regt reports mind where there used to be anyway, no creep. If they were never commented upon in yours, that might explain your aversion to activity and lack of focus.
Apart from that, thanks for the effort that went into your reply, I appreciate fine humour.
Al.
PS: I don't do 'rant'. The good lord allocated me a finite amount of heartbeats and I save them for the gym, not messageboards.
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So I take it you don't approve of the RAFET?
Hmmm......shows a poor attitude towards the RAFET - isn't going to look good on you ACR......
But no comment on attitude to anything, hence you beloved RAFFT has somewhat Stalinist overtones. I see a strange parallel with the 'Global Warming' mob - anyone who doesn’t accept our credo is the enemy!
Hmmm......shows a poor attitude towards the RAFET - isn't going to look good on you ACR......
but I'm sure that appearance and bearing appeared in my early assessments, long before 1991.
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Embracing something is generally indicative of an attitude towards it I would have thought. And it is hardly my 'beloved' fitness test.. the existing FT is far too soft. Also, I'm not sure how you got the impression I was never in favour of the RAFET system. But being taught service writing and learning to write in a military manner; with accuracy, brevity, clarity etc, is a quantum leap away from demonstrating an understanding of Shakespeare or being able to 'explain Einstein’s Theory of Relativity in Russian'. I could be wrong mind.
With regard to your final comment, why not leave the strawman debating tactics for lesser messageboards? By all means misrepresent my position and put words into my mouth but remember; they're still your words, and not mine. Finally, if you could stay on topic and leave Einstein out of it, that'd be really cool.
Cheers.
With regard to your final comment, why not leave the strawman debating tactics for lesser messageboards? By all means misrepresent my position and put words into my mouth but remember; they're still your words, and not mine. Finally, if you could stay on topic and leave Einstein out of it, that'd be really cool.
Cheers.
"So, perhaps there could have an unfitness test?"
I presume you mean 'they'?
Isn't that why aircrew have to undergo the annual bollock-fondling and AECONHTL test administered by some horny-handed MO every year down at the Quackery?
Isn't it now 'Defence Writing', by the way?
Oh - and from one who was A1G1Z1 until anno domini dictated the need for corrective flying spectacles, who hated any form of jockstrappery with a vengeance and who still holds a CAA Class 1 medical, I believe that you are looking for Ejnštejnovskaja teorija otnostitel'nosti?
Enjoy your 'Strength through Joy' lifestyle in the Brave New Air Force...
Question for the gym queens - which recognised RAF sport is associated with Shakespeare?
I presume you mean 'they'?
Isn't that why aircrew have to undergo the annual bollock-fondling and AECONHTL test administered by some horny-handed MO every year down at the Quackery?
Isn't it now 'Defence Writing', by the way?
Oh - and from one who was A1G1Z1 until anno domini dictated the need for corrective flying spectacles, who hated any form of jockstrappery with a vengeance and who still holds a CAA Class 1 medical, I believe that you are looking for Ejnštejnovskaja teorija otnostitel'nosti?
Enjoy your 'Strength through Joy' lifestyle in the Brave New Air Force...
Question for the gym queens - which recognised RAF sport is associated with Shakespeare?
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I'd be careful of those presumptions if I were you; I meant 'be'.
The annual aircrew medical determines medical fitness, and not physical fitness. A cracking set of nuts and perfect eyesight won't help you if you're pulling G's. When developing parachute harness, the UK g'ment took advice from NASA and AGARD (the Advisory Group for Aerospace Research and Development). NASA/AGARD research indicates 'a serious injury risk at 12.1G, but the differing posture, physical fitness levels, harness attachment location, ’wearer comfort’ and other factors have influenced the advisability of 6G as a maximum for users'. But perhaps you know more than NASA and AGARD? I would love to see data from anyone which says physical fitness is not a factor in determining efficiency levels when flying.
I don't know why the anti fitness lot doesn't just admit it. It has an aversion to the idea and however much you all try to cloud the issue with pseudo mumbo jumbo, you just can't be arsed to waddle to the gym. I bet you a pound do a pinch of p#g**** that all the crabs with an aversion to it would have a different attitude in civvy street. Also, on another thread here, I read the BA job spec with mild interest;
<< www.britishairwaysjobs.com
"Managed Path/RAFCARS (Service Pilot Hold Pool)
Scheme is for experienced high calibre Military pilots who..
You as a Person:
Physically fit and meet the requirements for the issue of a JAA/CAA Medical Licence (Class 1) and able to satisfy British Airways medical requirements. Please note that British Airw..">>
Imagine the scene..
"So, Sqn Ldr, welcome to BA and now that you're out of the RAF, we would like to inform you of some new CAA standards.".
The annual aircrew medical determines medical fitness, and not physical fitness. A cracking set of nuts and perfect eyesight won't help you if you're pulling G's. When developing parachute harness, the UK g'ment took advice from NASA and AGARD (the Advisory Group for Aerospace Research and Development). NASA/AGARD research indicates 'a serious injury risk at 12.1G, but the differing posture, physical fitness levels, harness attachment location, ’wearer comfort’ and other factors have influenced the advisability of 6G as a maximum for users'. But perhaps you know more than NASA and AGARD? I would love to see data from anyone which says physical fitness is not a factor in determining efficiency levels when flying.
I don't know why the anti fitness lot doesn't just admit it. It has an aversion to the idea and however much you all try to cloud the issue with pseudo mumbo jumbo, you just can't be arsed to waddle to the gym. I bet you a pound do a pinch of p#g**** that all the crabs with an aversion to it would have a different attitude in civvy street. Also, on another thread here, I read the BA job spec with mild interest;
<< www.britishairwaysjobs.com
"Managed Path/RAFCARS (Service Pilot Hold Pool)
Scheme is for experienced high calibre Military pilots who..
You as a Person:
Physically fit and meet the requirements for the issue of a JAA/CAA Medical Licence (Class 1) and able to satisfy British Airways medical requirements. Please note that British Airw..">>
Imagine the scene..
"So, Sqn Ldr, welcome to BA and now that you're out of the RAF, we would like to inform you of some new CAA standards.".
"That doesn't matter to me, my mission with you is to project 216 civilians to Malaga and by God, thats what I'm going to do.".
"So you don't want to adopt the new CAA standard?"
"No. I don't think that I need to be fit to fly passengers.".
"Thank you. Your P45 will be in the post. Don't forget to hand in your pass on the way out.".
"Erm, splutter.. aaah, perhaps I could join a gym.. ".
And it might well now be called Defence Writing now; I trust you'll be embracing the changes to RAF fitness levels with equal eagerness? 
Last edited by Al R; 12th Aug 2007 at 17:11.
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leave Einstein out of it, that'd be really cool.
Now what other nonsense FTs do the RAF need to fill up those moments back in the UK between ops? Oh, how about RAFFTCT? Cycling proficiency on stations is truly appalling - I remember one night on two site RAF H**** W*****e two inebriated Officers sailing past me on one of HM's velocipedes with not a care in the world and a complete disregard for the Road traffic Act 1988. My JEMS suggestion is annual fit to cycle tests with shuttle runs set at about the level of the Tour De France
But why stop there? Any other suggestions for pointless tests?
The only people that embraced the 'strengh through joy' mentality Beags mentions were in the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany - if you enjoy jock-strappery go for it, just don't expect the rest of the world to fall into line because you like it.
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If I was as asinine as many in this thread, I'd suggest that before you start spouting Russian, you might want to crack English.. take a gander at the first word in the first sentence, and the fourth in the second. But I'm not, so I won't. In return, by all means take a potshot at my prose, I'm just a thick ex Rock.. you're the guy who claims to be in Intelligence and you're the guy suggesting that promotion is linked to education and that fitness isn't important in a military.
Ok, to the 'meat' of your case. Are you really, genuinely, honestly, 100%, I kid you not.. actually trying to say that learning Russian is as relevent as physical fitness in our military? And I extend the same offer to you as I did to the other chap. By all means, feel free to post a link to a report that says that physical fitness is not linked to higher military effectiveness and airmanship and I'll reconsider my position.
And now I'm conforming to Nazi standards? Excellent, more straw man stuff. And as to me being a sucker for military discipline, might I remind you that you're the one wanting to join up again? And I'll wager I spent more time inside than you for various insubordination offences.
Its the Road Traffic Act 1991, part 7, section 28 by the way. Another case of 'Time spent in recconaisance ..'?
Off you go, I'm waiting for that link..
Ok, to the 'meat' of your case. Are you really, genuinely, honestly, 100%, I kid you not.. actually trying to say that learning Russian is as relevent as physical fitness in our military? And I extend the same offer to you as I did to the other chap. By all means, feel free to post a link to a report that says that physical fitness is not linked to higher military effectiveness and airmanship and I'll reconsider my position.
And now I'm conforming to Nazi standards? Excellent, more straw man stuff. And as to me being a sucker for military discipline, might I remind you that you're the one wanting to join up again? And I'll wager I spent more time inside than you for various insubordination offences.
Its the Road Traffic Act 1991, part 7, section 28 by the way. Another case of 'Time spent in recconaisance ..'?
Off you go, I'm waiting for that link..
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And now I'm conforming to Nazi standards?
and I'll reconsider my position
I'm pointing out that the RAFFT is about as relevant to the operational aims of the RAF as any of the silly suggestions I have put up, you could add underwater polo, train spotting or lawn mowing, none (especially the RAFFT) have the slightest bearing on live ops. Only one though is enforced by those with other agendas.
I remind you that you're the one wanting to join up again?
you're the guy suggesting that promotion is linked to education and that fitness isn't important in a military
No, I'm saying the RAFFT is irrelevant and a waste of everyone's time, I'm glad I was able to correct your assumption
Its the Road Traffic Act 1991
The arguement is always lost when it gets down to silly posts about spelling?
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Dear Mapes,
Although I could roll up that little lot without breaking sweat and was possibly a little too ironic with the spelling crack (sorry if I was), things seem to be drifting a little as well as starting to look fraught and slightly tense. So do you mind if I calm things down and get us back on topic?
(sote voce)
Al pleaded reasonably;
Although I could roll up that little lot without breaking sweat and was possibly a little too ironic with the spelling crack (sorry if I was), things seem to be drifting a little as well as starting to look fraught and slightly tense. So do you mind if I calm things down and get us back on topic?
(sote voce)
Al pleaded reasonably;
"Off you go, I'm waiting for that link.."
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I can do you one that says the RAFFT is illegal
http://www.eoc.org.uk/Default.aspx?page=15347
Applying a different selection criterion to men and women could amount to unlawful direct discrimination. So, for example, in this case, a woman who completed the test in 3.5 minutes would pass the test whereas a man who completed the test in the same time would fail: the man would be able to make a claim unlawful direct sex discrimination to an employment tribunal.
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Thanks. I just coughed my drink over my keyboard.
I can offer NASA, AGARD, the NHS, the MoD, the UK g'ment and the DoD to support my arguement that physical firness is a pivotal component of better performance and airmanship and you are reduced to offering us.. a tofu munching, latte sipping ambulance chaser. Was that it? When the going gets tough, the tough get knitting eh?
The prosecution rests.. its collective pulse rapidly returning to normal.
I can offer NASA, AGARD, the NHS, the MoD, the UK g'ment and the DoD to support my arguement that physical firness is a pivotal component of better performance and airmanship and you are reduced to offering us.. a tofu munching, latte sipping ambulance chaser. Was that it? When the going gets tough, the tough get knitting eh?
The prosecution rests.. its collective pulse rapidly returning to normal.
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I'll do you a deal.
If I can offer you credible proof (I don't believe I'm actually saying this to someone on a military messageboard) that physical fitness is an essential component of not only a normal lifestyle, but also an effective military one, will you get down the gym?
http://ohp.nasa.gov/disciplines/fitness/index.html
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/airfo...waffitness.htm
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/airfo...bmtfitness.htm
Sorry, I really can't face putting up many more links. I'm sure you didn't really expect me to, but I ask you to offer 3 to repudiate them.
And finally..
"You can use me as a benchmark. I am currently recovering from abdominal surgery and am not allowed to run for another two weeks. I won't be able to do any situps for another month. During the first week in January I plan to lead all Air Force General Officers in the Pentagon and the Washington, DC area in the PT test. During the same week, Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force Murray will do the same thing with our Command Chiefs in the area. We will follow that with the colonels, the remaining chief master sergeants, etc.
General John P. Jumper, Air Force Chief of Staff"
Jumper was 53 at the time. If he can do it, why can't you?
And finally, this, I have always found amusing.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/airforce.asp
If I can offer you credible proof (I don't believe I'm actually saying this to someone on a military messageboard) that physical fitness is an essential component of not only a normal lifestyle, but also an effective military one, will you get down the gym?
http://ohp.nasa.gov/disciplines/fitness/index.html
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/airfo...waffitness.htm
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/airfo...bmtfitness.htm
Sorry, I really can't face putting up many more links. I'm sure you didn't really expect me to, but I ask you to offer 3 to repudiate them.
And finally..
"You can use me as a benchmark. I am currently recovering from abdominal surgery and am not allowed to run for another two weeks. I won't be able to do any situps for another month. During the first week in January I plan to lead all Air Force General Officers in the Pentagon and the Washington, DC area in the PT test. During the same week, Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force Murray will do the same thing with our Command Chiefs in the area. We will follow that with the colonels, the remaining chief master sergeants, etc.
General John P. Jumper, Air Force Chief of Staff"
Jumper was 53 at the time. If he can do it, why can't you?
And finally, this, I have always found amusing.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/airforce.asp