Too Fat to Fight!
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: firmly on dry land
Age: 81
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Could be the Last
I take exception to your last para. First, I do not have to go down to the Gym. I have been age exempt for a good many years.
Secondly I actually had a gym installed but it is very small and there are no showers or toilets. Provided the facilities are acceptable for this new regime then there will be time for them to be used but if they are required to use other facilties such as sports pitches, courts and gymnasia then it would cost about 7-8 hrs per person per week as they would have to travel to their parent station.
Your other statement:
Is absolutely crucial to the result. All the support units must be available for the activity. The loss of time would not be a couple of hours per week but more like 3 half or quarter days.
As flying is dependent on weather, aircraft availability etc and is our primary job then it would need a sea change to alter this.
Moreover on OCUs every trip is planned and there is a planned output date. Start adding in an exercise regime and the output date will shoot to the right. Also imagine Monday morning sport - weather gin clear - no flying. Tuesday dog**** - black flag but no sport organised - etc etc
Wader 2,
The reality is that we need the deploying troops to be as fit as possible. By increasing specific types of PT we can offset the physical damge that will be sustained when carrying out ops.
Stop bleating and get down the gym, and take some of your men/women with you.
The reality is that we need the deploying troops to be as fit as possible. By increasing specific types of PT we can offset the physical damge that will be sustained when carrying out ops.
Stop bleating and get down the gym, and take some of your men/women with you.
Secondly I actually had a gym installed but it is very small and there are no showers or toilets. Provided the facilities are acceptable for this new regime then there will be time for them to be used but if they are required to use other facilties such as sports pitches, courts and gymnasia then it would cost about 7-8 hrs per person per week as they would have to travel to their parent station.
Your other statement:
However, trying to get support from the lords and masters on a frontline unit is nigh on impossible.
If it means that flying units don't fly for a couple of hours each week, then so be it.
If it means that flying units don't fly for a couple of hours each week, then so be it.
As flying is dependent on weather, aircraft availability etc and is our primary job then it would need a sea change to alter this.
Moreover on OCUs every trip is planned and there is a planned output date. Start adding in an exercise regime and the output date will shoot to the right. Also imagine Monday morning sport - weather gin clear - no flying. Tuesday dog**** - black flag but no sport organised - etc etc
Hellbound
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blighty
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Must admit I am struggling to understand why all this is so tricky. I really do understand the constraints/difficulties associated with making time, but howse about a late (0900) start Mon, Wed and Fri for group fiz at 0800? Would that really make everything else so difficult? Maybe it would, maybe not...
That is pretty much the way the Army do group PT and seems to work for them, (although I do know they get a lot more time during the week for further PT).
Like the posts above say, all it takes is a bit of commitment from senior management.
That is pretty much the way the Army do group PT and seems to work for them, (although I do know they get a lot more time during the week for further PT).
Like the posts above say, all it takes is a bit of commitment from senior management.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: firmly on dry land
Age: 81
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Southbound your 1226 post makes perfect sense. Your 1326 post shows a lack of understanding.
The first take-off at 0800 does not happen to coincide with the guys getting off their bikes at the sheds (does for some, not all).
An 0800 start time means that:
The night shift put the jets to bed at 2300-0100 or later.
The Ops Assistant opens Ops at 0500, ditto sqn. Cooks and bottle washers have been at it since 0500 too and start breakfasts at 0600. Engineers ready jets and range them on the flight line by 0700. Crews arrive at 0600. Brief and walk at 0715 or so. ATC manned by 0730. and so on.
Put simply a large number of people are at work up to 3 hours or more before start work. As large a number at at work after cease work.
I believe that aircrews are also discouraged from undertaking strenuous exercise before flying.
So, what I want to see is how it is planned for everyone to undertake these three periods of exercise per week. Will the regular jockstrappers be exempt or will they have to do team exercise too?
The first take-off at 0800 does not happen to coincide with the guys getting off their bikes at the sheds (does for some, not all).
An 0800 start time means that:
The night shift put the jets to bed at 2300-0100 or later.
The Ops Assistant opens Ops at 0500, ditto sqn. Cooks and bottle washers have been at it since 0500 too and start breakfasts at 0600. Engineers ready jets and range them on the flight line by 0700. Crews arrive at 0600. Brief and walk at 0715 or so. ATC manned by 0730. and so on.
Put simply a large number of people are at work up to 3 hours or more before start work. As large a number at at work after cease work.
I believe that aircrews are also discouraged from undertaking strenuous exercise before flying.
So, what I want to see is how it is planned for everyone to undertake these three periods of exercise per week. Will the regular jockstrappers be exempt or will they have to do team exercise too?
Hellbound
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blighty
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wader, thank you for your opinion of my understanding.
You have taken it too literally - I genuinely don't believe it is too difficult to permit the majority of staff to take an hour off several occasions during the week if it is coordinated and managed properly (that does not have to be all at the same time...). All it takes is some willingness to do so.
If not 0800, then finish flying an hour earlier, then your engineers, opsies and ATC types can escape to the gym (Most of the rest of the Unit work fixed shift patterns and can manage accordingly - HR Flts regularly close for afternoons with little impact to the Unit).
This does require an acknowledgement that there will be an impact on what can be achieved in a shorter timescale, and that is the leadership element.
You have taken it too literally - I genuinely don't believe it is too difficult to permit the majority of staff to take an hour off several occasions during the week if it is coordinated and managed properly (that does not have to be all at the same time...). All it takes is some willingness to do so.
If not 0800, then finish flying an hour earlier, then your engineers, opsies and ATC types can escape to the gym (Most of the rest of the Unit work fixed shift patterns and can manage accordingly - HR Flts regularly close for afternoons with little impact to the Unit).
This does require an acknowledgement that there will be an impact on what can be achieved in a shorter timescale, and that is the leadership element.
As usual, if the big cheeses saw engineers swanning off to the gym, when there are a number of unserviceable airframes waiting to be fixed, they would demand that the u/s kites be worked on FIRST.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Exiled in England
Age: 48
Posts: 1,015
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a now partly crippled veteran of RAF PTI's and physio's whose attitude was and I quote directly "the reason you have a bad back is because you are too fat." at the time of my injury/downgrading I was 15 and a half stone still cycling over 100 miles per week, swimming, cycling to work, going down the gym and doing as much surfing and sailing the Moray Firth would allow, all was in my own time. I used to surf before work, during lunch and after work, all my phis was geared towards my sports. When i discussed the fit for purpose with the pt muppets their attitude was you fat, you unfit end of discussion. They never did take me up on an offer to go for a surf with me at Thurso when it was double overhead barrels with snow on the beach.
You have to identify your aims for fitness, give the troops time and incentive to do it and make allowances that tg1 and 2 work more hours than the shiny arses know exist in a day and to give them time for sport is a luxury they don't have. I know, we could get all the engineers running laps round the HAS site between the waves!!! don't worry about the backstacked repairs or servicings.
I never saw a liney quit or fall over before the jet was done.
You have to identify your aims for fitness, give the troops time and incentive to do it and make allowances that tg1 and 2 work more hours than the shiny arses know exist in a day and to give them time for sport is a luxury they don't have. I know, we could get all the engineers running laps round the HAS site between the waves!!! don't worry about the backstacked repairs or servicings.
I never saw a liney quit or fall over before the jet was done.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Exiled in England
Age: 48
Posts: 1,015
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most of the HR flights close early with no impact my arse! Try gettiong an admin query from psf, all thats missing is the call centre in bangladesh to guarantee a ****e service
Try gettiong an admin query from psf, all thats missing is the call centre in bangladesh to guarantee a ****e service
Hellbound
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blighty
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ZH875
yep, that is the perception, but we are not talking about swanning off and leaving the aircraft until the next day, just finding time in the day to take an hour off. That IS possible as long as there is no (or reduced) flying, it just needs management to support it. Eng-chum at Odiham says their engineers are doing compulsory group PT. If it works there, no reason it shouldn't work anywhere else...
As for no impact to HR service, clearly I meant that no one would notice...
yep, that is the perception, but we are not talking about swanning off and leaving the aircraft until the next day, just finding time in the day to take an hour off. That IS possible as long as there is no (or reduced) flying, it just needs management to support it. Eng-chum at Odiham says their engineers are doing compulsory group PT. If it works there, no reason it shouldn't work anywhere else...
As for no impact to HR service, clearly I meant that no one would notice...
Last edited by South Bound; 26th Mar 2007 at 17:04. Reason: To pick up the HR flt point...
As long as we have a Herc fleet, there will NEVER be no (or reduced) flying at the premier Herc base, no doubt that the equally hardworking engineers (and aircrew) at the Jet AT base also face a constant flying program.
If they want the engineers to spend more time in the gym, they should spend more money on more engineers for the flightline, until then, there will always be a 'negative' attitude to being told to go to the mirrored posing palace.
If they want the engineers to spend more time in the gym, they should spend more money on more engineers for the flightline, until then, there will always be a 'negative' attitude to being told to go to the mirrored posing palace.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Let's get one thing clear. We are not talking about 50 ompminutes or an hour off three times per week.
Complusory PT takes time to start, time to do it, and time to finish it.
A minimum of 10 minutes to get ready and 15-20 minutes to shower, get dressed and return to work. Say 1 1/2 per session.
Pound to a penny it will soon be 50 minutes start to finish - 15 minutes from section to start session, 20 minutes shower etc and return. 15 minutes PT.
Besides, apart from something like football, where some of the team move hardly at all - goal keeper on winning team for instance, there are not many things you can do that take 50 minutes - swim certainly, cycle certainly, but press-ups, sittups, squat jumps etc no. Running - 20-30 minutes maybe but not 50.
I agree that CFT is a go test but note the "T". So the unanswered questions remain. How about women and to what end is the training?
Complusory PT takes time to start, time to do it, and time to finish it.
A minimum of 10 minutes to get ready and 15-20 minutes to shower, get dressed and return to work. Say 1 1/2 per session.
Pound to a penny it will soon be 50 minutes start to finish - 15 minutes from section to start session, 20 minutes shower etc and return. 15 minutes PT.
Besides, apart from something like football, where some of the team move hardly at all - goal keeper on winning team for instance, there are not many things you can do that take 50 minutes - swim certainly, cycle certainly, but press-ups, sittups, squat jumps etc no. Running - 20-30 minutes maybe but not 50.
I agree that CFT is a go test but note the "T". So the unanswered questions remain. How about women and to what end is the training?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
wg13, P company is a job in its own right. There would be b
y ructions if they were told to blow up the balloon or service the b dy aircraft first.
y ructions if they were told to blow up the balloon or service the b dy aircraft first.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Falmouth
Posts: 1,651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good point Mr Melchett.....
Very interesting that the Crabs have 2 threads running....one about not getting enough food and one about having to go for a gentle jog....Hmmmm....
Flight Sgt Roly Poly to the rescue.
Very interesting that the Crabs have 2 threads running....one about not getting enough food and one about having to go for a gentle jog....Hmmmm....
Flight Sgt Roly Poly to the rescue.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: S England
Age: 54
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This thread is hilarious!
Let's look at why the Crabs think PT is a bad idea:
1. 'We don't have time'. The AAC make time, the FAA make time and yet the Rotund Air Force, who have more personnel per airframe than any other air force on the planet don't have enough people to be able to do it. Priceless.
2. 'It's not what they joined up for'. You're a military fighting force for crying out loud. Military fighting forces are formed around military discipline. I'll say that again, military discipline. Ring any bells. Military discipline starts with self discipline. Being rotund and unfit is not a good example of self discipline. Priceless.
3. This is the best one. 'Being fitter and less pork like is actually detrimental to me doing my job'. They quote how they once saw a fit bloke go down with exposure when a lard arse coped well. Well that's it then. Conclusive! Even the vast majority of overweight and unfit people would admit that they should eat less, exercise more, live a healthier life in general. They might not actualy do it, but they will acknowledge that they should. Not the Crabs Their dedication to the work that they never stop moaning about is so high, that they put it before their own health and well being.Priceless, absolutely, f*****g priceless.
Let's look at why the Crabs think PT is a bad idea:
1. 'We don't have time'. The AAC make time, the FAA make time and yet the Rotund Air Force, who have more personnel per airframe than any other air force on the planet don't have enough people to be able to do it. Priceless.
2. 'It's not what they joined up for'. You're a military fighting force for crying out loud. Military fighting forces are formed around military discipline. I'll say that again, military discipline. Ring any bells. Military discipline starts with self discipline. Being rotund and unfit is not a good example of self discipline. Priceless.
3. This is the best one. 'Being fitter and less pork like is actually detrimental to me doing my job'. They quote how they once saw a fit bloke go down with exposure when a lard arse coped well. Well that's it then. Conclusive! Even the vast majority of overweight and unfit people would admit that they should eat less, exercise more, live a healthier life in general. They might not actualy do it, but they will acknowledge that they should. Not the Crabs
Their dedication to the work that they never stop moaning about is so high, that they put it before their own health and well being.Priceless, absolutely, f*****g priceless.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: firmly on dry land
Age: 81
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually
I think he was actually dark blue!
The dark blue seem to be keeping their heads down as they have their fair share of porkies.
Must admit I was interested to see the number of bikes (with wheels) coming off a warship at Guernsey for some serious exercise. Also NAC has a football team, not very good I know but a team nonethe less. Can't recall a 1 Gp football team or even a Strike Command one.
Coures, next week there will be no point in having a Command football team - who would they play?
They quote how they once saw a fit bloke go down with exposure when a lard arse coped well.
The dark blue seem to be keeping their heads down as they have their fair share of porkies.
Must admit I was interested to see the number of bikes (with wheels) coming off a warship at Guernsey for some serious exercise. Also NAC has a football team, not very good I know but a team nonethe less. Can't recall a 1 Gp football team or even a Strike Command one.
Coures, next week there will be no point in having a Command football team - who would they play?
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't tar us all with the same brush!!!
Have to say I agree with all of your post, the moaning on here is unbeliveable.
You did leave one point out. For years the "lard" of the RAF have moaned that they do not have time in their “busy and committed lives” to train in their own time. The RAF now mandates that all personnel are to carryout training and, the implication is that every effort should be made to make time available for personnel to train in work time. The collective "lard" of the RAF gets its wish and what do they do? Moan, whine and wail whilst they scuttle of to their little brew areas to eat donuts and contemplate ways of avoiding fitness or suing the RAF for daring to take an interest in their health and wellbeing. Unbelievable and frankly embarrassing
Have to say I agree with all of your post, the moaning on here is unbeliveable.
You did leave one point out. For years the "lard" of the RAF have moaned that they do not have time in their “busy and committed lives” to train in their own time. The RAF now mandates that all personnel are to carryout training and, the implication is that every effort should be made to make time available for personnel to train in work time. The collective "lard" of the RAF gets its wish and what do they do? Moan, whine and wail whilst they scuttle of to their little brew areas to eat donuts and contemplate ways of avoiding fitness or suing the RAF for daring to take an interest in their health and wellbeing. Unbelievable and frankly embarrassing
TAC Int Bloke
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 975
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems its the Pongos on this forum that are outraged that we have better things to do than hang around in Gyms, and as its a RAF test they are about as well quallified to talk on the subject as I am about the correct procedures for storming field defences. Stick to what you know boys!
On reflection is it a case of [POUT] 'we have to do it, why don't they?'[/POUT]
It's because we read the small print when we joined!
On reflection is it a case of [POUT] 'we have to do it, why don't they?'[/POUT]
It's because we read the small print when we joined!
Last edited by Maple 01; 27th Mar 2007 at 10:56.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So you crabs are saying you can't spare 30 mins a week on a bit of basic phys?
F**king salad dodgers.
The RAF - The aggresive wing of EasyJet.
Really?
Why is it Joint med centres are full of fat sweaty RAF blokes trying to get a sick note from matron?
Fit for purpose?
How many working days are lost due to fatties on the biff?
No one is asking you lot to be Decatheletes. Just keeping yourselves basically fit so you don't become a burden on ops or even day to day at work.
No, its not a case of we have to do it so you lot should. Most Army types do it as a matter of routine because we know the value of keeping basic fitness in order.
Jointry and all that means we all work together a bit more now and RAF types do become a burden if they are fatties.
F**king salad dodgers.
The RAF - The aggresive wing of EasyJet.
It's because we read the small print when we joined!
Why is it Joint med centres are full of fat sweaty RAF blokes trying to get a sick note from matron?
Fit for purpose?
How many working days are lost due to fatties on the biff?
No one is asking you lot to be Decatheletes. Just keeping yourselves basically fit so you don't become a burden on ops or even day to day at work.
No, its not a case of we have to do it so you lot should. Most Army types do it as a matter of routine because we know the value of keeping basic fitness in order.
Jointry and all that means we all work together a bit more now and RAF types do become a burden if they are fatties.
Hellbound
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blighty
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crikey, this whole thread is embarrassing.
Get fit or die early boys and girls, your choice. Please just stop finding excuses not to and blaming everyone else. Friend of mine, strong as an Ox and spouted the same rubbish written here about being able to do his job so he must be fit enough, but abused his body for years, just had a significant stroke, might never be the same again - all as a result of the life choices he made years ago. Your choice.
Get fit or die early boys and girls, your choice. Please just stop finding excuses not to and blaming everyone else. Friend of mine, strong as an Ox and spouted the same rubbish written here about being able to do his job so he must be fit enough, but abused his body for years, just had a significant stroke, might never be the same again - all as a result of the life choices he made years ago. Your choice.