Too Fat to Fight!

[wg13_dummy]

The three services have individual roles to play in the greater scheme.

They do but the comparisons for the aviation side of each is similar. Pilots, techs and support.

The other two services seem to be able to aviate and maintain a professional level of fitness, why do the crabs seem to make it such a drama?

On here all day?

Naa. Sorted the world out before lunch time then spent the rest of it fishing.

[JessTheDog]

The other two services seem to be able to aviate and maintain a professional level of fitness, why do the crabs seem to make it such a drama?

Most of the matelots I met preferred the bar over the gym any time. I also vaguely recall being told there was no RN fitness test a few years or so ago, and that this was a recent innovation. However I imagine swimming may be of some use.

As for the Army, well that's the Army for you!

[LFFC]

Sigh - I really didn't want to take the bait, but I couldn't resist answering this:

wg13_dummy
As I was suggesting earlier, isn't that what the Officers job is? Management I think it's called.

No doubt lots of posts of 'but I didn't join up to manage people, I joined up to fly'.

I didn't join up to be a manager, I joined up to be a leader! Sadly I expect you don't understand the difference.

[wg13_dummy]

I used the civvy term 'management' so you crabs would understand it.

Ok then, lead from the front (not in the air as usual) and make the directive work.

Or as I suspect, you'll just bitch and winge about it. Great example to set to the troops eh?

Problem > Solution.

[JessTheDog]

Jointry and all that means we all work together a bit more now and RAF types do become a burden if they are fatties.

Now, that is simply sizeist! The fuller-figured should not be discriminated against! When I joined I thought that the Army acted as bearers for when us sub-Adonises became weary. Also, jointery is surely a matter of self-interested altrusim. Carry fattie if you need an airborne lift. Stack him with the sandbags or as food if you do not....

[JessTheDog]

Bitching and whinging is the perfect example to set the troops. For when they do so, you can claim to be an inspiration!

[wg13_dummy]

Bitching and whinging is the perfect example to set the troops. For when they do so, you can claim to be an inspiration!

[JessTheDog]

At the risk of slipping into seriousness, you cannot create a single ethos for fitness throughout the 3 services.

The Army will always be fitter, it is what they do. The infantry train like madmen and the other units have a soldier-first mindset.

The Navy and the RAF are sailors and aviators/technicians first and always will be. Fitness is important but technical ability and professional knowledge are more important.

Trying to ram home the Army culture of physical fitness will not work in the RN and RAF. Churchill said something along the lines of "fighting air groundsmen" at the same time the RAF regiment was set up in WW2. Fitness should be role-specific although there should be a reasonable baseline. If the MoD think that Bloggs the techie should routinely pick up a rifle and man a sangar or be ready to march with full PLCE then they are flirting with disaster. That is not his job - although, in extremity, Bloggs should be able to save his own skin and maybe that of the man next to him.

[wg13_dummy]

If the MoD think that Bloggs the techie should routinely pick up a rifle and man a sangar

Due to the lack of man power, that is a reality unfortunately.

although, in extremity, Bloggs should be able to save his own skin and maybe that of the man next to him.

As should any serviceman or woman.

Proving a basic level of fitness goes some way of assuring the system that they are capable of that.

Extremity a few years ago may have been a rarity and been nothing more than the threat of Crazy Ivan over running the perimeter fence of Wildenrath but it is a more regular and real factor nowadays due to Tonys Terrific Tours around the globe.

I don't think anyone is asking the RAF to conduct a CFT or run an assault course every week.

Think about the savings. Not as much material will be required for uniforms.

[TonkaEngO]

wg13 dummy

Whilst not wishing to add to a debate that has obviously more than run its course - all I can add is that for you to have posted so many items on this one thread, with your last being at midnight!, get a life you sad individual.

[Mad_Mark]

If the MoD think that Bloggs the techie should routinely pick up a rifle and man a sangar

Due to the lack of man power, that is a reality unfortunately.

Due to the lack of manpower in the RAF, if Bloggs the Techie had to do that you would have no AT, SH, CAS or ISTAR assets in theatre right now. They tried to get Bloggs the Techie and some of his mates to do just such in Basrah but, fortunately, common sense prevailed and it was realised that they were more vitally employed doing their own job, i.e. getting frames into the air.

And please do not go comparing a Lynx, Sea King, Merlin or even an Apache to the far more complex aircraft that make up the majority of the RAF inventory.

I do not slag off our green or dark blue brethren for carrying out their role in the military their own way, as I do not pretend to think I know how they should operate. Likewise I do not expect those same people to try to dictate to us how we should carry out our roles. We all have a part to play in the big picture and we all have our own ways and needs to play that part.

The sooner it is understood that it is a tiny minority of RAF personnel that fail the RAFT and that the majority in here are not complaining of about the test but are discussing the alleged plans to introduce compulsory PT sessions during the working day (or were until WG - who obviously has no real life, girlfriend, wife or family - started acting like a 13 year old girl with his bitch-fest). It is simply being pointed out that, unlike our Army brethren (who's primary job it is to be on the ground on the front line and so PT is a part of their normal days routine), many in the RAF have full shifts doing extremely technical work and, unless in the Rocks, do not need to be infantrymen. If I wanted to be an infantryman I would have joined the Army. If I wanted to go to sea I would have joined the RN. I wanted to fly hi-tech military aircraft and therefore I joined the RAF. Horses for courses.

MadMark!!!

[South Bound]

Crikey, we in the light blue have an over-inflated opinion of ourselves. An Army helicopter is just as complicated (AH potentially more so with sensor integration and weapon systems, combined with relative inexperience of type) as an RAF one, and I respectifully suggest that it is the helo boys and girls that are most entitled to whine about being busy.

Comparing like for like, the Army manage to generate aircraft and maintain appropriate levels of fitness. It is my perception that the RAF generally do the same in the Helo world, so just who is it that is whining here - surely not the extremely over-worked and over-deployed fast-jet world.

Bored now, get on with it people, show a backbone, demonstrate some leadership and inspire your airmen to want to get fit. Find time for them to do that, negotiate downtime if possible - don't say it isn't possible without trying first.

[Pontius Navigator]

Many years ago, on an operation, we were doing our best to get acclamatised and and hydrated (sunbathing and bar proping) so the boss decided that some sport was called for.

Aircrew duly assembled for Volley Ball - not too demanding and deemed safe.

Half way through the first set one super fit Nav jumped, did a double handed wham over the net but lost his footing on the wet painted asphalt.

As he crashed backward he put his hands behind him and broke both risks. As we were running at 1:1 aircraft crew ratio 25% of the force was immediately f d.

We caancelled the volley ball competition and instead concentrated on sea survival drills several times per day. The Marine craft even took us out to use dinghies once as well.

[cornish-stormrider]

So exactly where are them shiny apaches deployed to at the mo??? anywhere? or are they still sitting in hangers.........

Puma helo = days of flying to cock-all fixing

Tonka / Typhoon etc = billions of hours fixing for every flying hour used

Its not hard mathematics now is it, I'm all for fitness and having a bit of fun in life but until the PTB give us the facilities and the time then it will be an issue. I bet every lardy in the raf would jump (lethargically) at the chance of a spot of playtime during the day, it might cost some flying time and would certainly impact the maintenance times.

Every lardy techie (me included) went thru Halton and/or Cosford and was gotten to a halfway reasonable standard of running about like a **** and its only after, when covering for the fitness freaks etc that it slipped, due mainly to no proper lunches, no organised phis and the loss of the footy goal/volleyball net due to upset pti's

Give each sqn an hour of playtime 3 times a week and I bet you £20 will have a much healthier and fitter team.

The bottom line is that it is never going to happen so we will just be given the target and told ........get on with it.

Would any brown job care for a double fcu change and accociated EGR's at 2 am on a windswept pan coz the jet died there and needs to be fixed before it can fly home??

Nah they all be tucked up together sharing body heat and admiring each others muscles...........

Now its legal!!

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Cornish bloke

Whilst I rarely step in to defend our brown job compatriots......

"So exactly where are them shiny apaches deployed to at the mo??? anywhere? or are they still sitting in hangers........."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6269613.stm

Try looking at this and then offer an apology to all the very brave AH guys risking their lives in theatre.

Edited to reflect the apology of said cornish chap

[I've_got a traveller]

Easy Seldom,
I'm sure Mr Cornish knows he has dropped a clanger, we in light blue can't be seen to be bickering amongst ourselves now can we?

Not in front of the children!

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

I'm sure Mr Cornish knows he has dropped a clanger,

Although, actually, they call them pasties.

[cornish-stormrider]

My humble apologies to anyone I have insulted. I don't deny that the marines action is bravery far beyond the call of duty. It wasn't my intention to imply that there aren't brave men and women from all three services risking their lives in ****ty places for very little reward. The point I am trying to make was against the implication that that SH and AT takes as much maintenance as fast jet. Also the fact that Grunt soldiering is yes physical, demandind and dangerous at times but you don't need an in depth knowlege of machinery

Okay I accept the point that I didn't make it clearly and as far as I knew the Multi Billion Pound Apache moneywaste programme was still mired in Blighty (Much like the Merlins of 28 sqn were for so long) but that was not the point of my last reply.

As to the pasty eating feckwit, I resemble that remark. Gotta go work calls....... Again

[South Bound]

Didn't say that the SH and AT take as much maint as fast jet - that is irrelevant. No doubt that fast jet require more maint per flying hour, but establishments are balanced accordingly and they fly considerably fewer hours. ROUGHLY, we are all as busy as each other, and to try and differentiate between types to find excuses for not being fit is complete and utter tosh.

What I said was the SH engrs are working just as hard (I would argue harder because of frequency of deployment) as anyone else, hence have the same time restrictions on being able to keep themselves fit. Anyone sat at Coningsby or Leuchars fantasising that they are the most over-worked people in the RAF are kidding themselves.

[Fast but Safe]

Guys/Gals,

Can anyone tell me what Odiham have up and running regards to compulsory PT? I've heard rumors and stories but wanted to hear it from someone who's actually doing it. If they have a set up running, it would be interesting to hear if it would be practical at the other bases we serve at.

Thanks,

FbS