Too Fat to Fight!
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Too Fat to Fight!
At a briefing this week, the latest fitness programme was unveiled to an enthralled audience.
It includes:
Fitness tests TWICE a year
.
Increased fitness levels
.
Mandatory 3 x 50 minute sports period per week.
Personally I am all in favour of conducting fitness trg in work time and having fit for purpose personnel but how the hell are we going to be able to facilitate this when we are 'running hot'. Do we restrict tasking/ops for sport, do we bring back sports afternoons, do we bring people in early, send them home late and if it is considered so important why were such low standards brought in originally to allow us to get into such a state.
On a station of 1000 personnel, working on 3 x 50 min sports period, with 30 mins changing and travel time the station will lose 4 hrs per person per week, totalling 4000 man hrs or 166 man days per week. Where will the additional PTI resources come from and is there enough Gym space?
The headquarters are where people have the time, but their statistics are the worst of all the stations sheer Hypocrisy.
see ya down the gym......................
It includes:
Fitness tests TWICE a year
.Increased fitness levels
.Mandatory 3 x 50 minute sports period per week
.Personally I am all in favour of conducting fitness trg in work time and having fit for purpose personnel but how the hell are we going to be able to facilitate this when we are 'running hot'. Do we restrict tasking/ops for sport, do we bring back sports afternoons, do we bring people in early, send them home late and if it is considered so important why were such low standards brought in originally to allow us to get into such a state.
On a station of 1000 personnel, working on 3 x 50 min sports period, with 30 mins changing and travel time the station will lose 4 hrs per person per week, totalling 4000 man hrs or 166 man days per week. Where will the additional PTI resources come from and is there enough Gym space?
The headquarters are where people have the time, but their statistics are the worst of all the stations sheer Hypocrisy.
see ya down the gym......................
Last edited by SaddamsLoveChild; 22nd Mar 2007 at 14:40.
Well, that sounds like a well thought out retention measure!
How long before the RAF consists of just PTIs and WSOs?
On the day that the civil 'Open Skies' announcement has effectively given the green light to increased transatlantic competition and the airlines are looking even harder for pilots, I guess this will help a few who were considering leaving to make up their minds?
How long before the RAF consists of just PTIs and WSOs?
On the day that the civil 'Open Skies' announcement has effectively given the green light to increased transatlantic competition and the airlines are looking even harder for pilots, I guess this will help a few who were considering leaving to make up their minds?
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Saddam,someone is running their own agenda.
What the CinC Bulletin of Jan 07 actually said was:
"development of a culture wherein (sic) every individual recognises the need to undertake 3 periods of physical activity per week."
No time, no compulsion.
"there is no one-size fits all solution"
No fixed plan then.
"CAS will simply expect station commanders to ensure that their people are fit."
"Stn cdrs in turn . .. " Ah! now we get to it.
"flt cdrs achieve their goal"
"Physical Training Leaders - non-specialists, trained and authorised by PEd staffs to lead basic fitness sessions"
So, from individual recognition we move smoothly to a PTL enabler.
New, higher standards (for most age/gender categories), relevant to a modern fighting service, ready to endure the rigors of operational detachments and linked directly to levels of health risk become effective on 1 Jul 07.
The tests are still being developed as the operational fitness test "proved unworkable."
Clearly one of the sessions should take place at 5 on a Friday to endure the rigors of operational detachments and linked directly to levels of health risk
See my remarks about PTLs, who said anythng about more PTIs and Gym space. Who wants to be a PTL?
What the CinC Bulletin of Jan 07 actually said was:
"development of a culture wherein (sic) every individual recognises the need to undertake 3 periods of physical activity per week."
No time, no compulsion.
"there is no one-size fits all solution"
No fixed plan then.
"CAS will simply expect station commanders to ensure that their people are fit."
"Stn cdrs in turn . .. " Ah! now we get to it.
"flt cdrs achieve their goal"
"Physical Training Leaders - non-specialists, trained and authorised by PEd staffs to lead basic fitness sessions"
So, from individual recognition we move smoothly to a PTL enabler.
New, higher standards (for most age/gender categories), relevant to a modern fighting service, ready to endure the rigors of operational detachments and linked directly to levels of health risk become effective on 1 Jul 07.
The tests are still being developed as the operational fitness test "proved unworkable."
Clearly one of the sessions should take place at 5 on a Friday to endure the rigors of operational detachments and linked directly to levels of health risk
Where will the additional PTI resources come from and is there enough Gym space?
See my remarks about PTLs, who said anythng about more PTIs and Gym space. Who wants to be a PTL?
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Wader, no personal agenda here, just amazed that it is going to fall to Flt Cdrs to ensure their troops are given time to conduct 3 periods of trg, mandated to be 50 mins (the big man said it). What incentive is there to get everyone through versus the incentive of not achieving my operational support task. My troops are already working extended hrs in support of the front line and some eating lunch at their desks.
I believe, and I am willng to be corrected in my belief that a Stn Cdr would rather have a question asked about his fitness stats rather than why he did not achieve his mandated flying hrs or put the right aircraft in the right place at the right time, ergo his troops are fit to the stations task.
PTL's = litigation nightmare and an additional burden on an individual and is infact IMHO an abrogation of the PT branches responsibility. It is obvious that if the Gym staffs and PTL's are to get everyone through then the question has to be asked, are the facilities up to the challenge?
I dont want to deploy with unfit people but there has to be a realistic target and like the OFT I dont think this is it. You tell me of one person who has been returned from an OOA becasue they were unfit physically for the task.
I believe, and I am willng to be corrected in my belief that a Stn Cdr would rather have a question asked about his fitness stats rather than why he did not achieve his mandated flying hrs or put the right aircraft in the right place at the right time, ergo his troops are fit to the stations task.
PTL's = litigation nightmare and an additional burden on an individual and is infact IMHO an abrogation of the PT branches responsibility. It is obvious that if the Gym staffs and PTL's are to get everyone through then the question has to be asked, are the facilities up to the challenge?
I dont want to deploy with unfit people but there has to be a realistic target and like the OFT I dont think this is it. You tell me of one person who has been returned from an OOA becasue they were unfit physically for the task.
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SLC, on your last point, I am aware of someone TU as unfit.
On the rest of your points, absolutely true. You will have tests to see if you are fit to take the test. The fitness, if mandated, can become boring.
If you are a natural jockstrapper will you be able to do your own thing, running every lunchtime, or will you have to carry sandbags like everyone else?
Will your Saturday football count or will you have to do it on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday too?
Will you start work at 7 instead of 8?
If team sport is allowed will you be made to play football when you prefer rugby, larcrosse or hockey?
Is cricket sufficiently physical?
and so on and so on.
PS, my nominated fitness coordinator, soon to be PTL, when he gets back off leave, has been unfit fitness test for over a year.
On the rest of your points, absolutely true. You will have tests to see if you are fit to take the test. The fitness, if mandated, can become boring.
If you are a natural jockstrapper will you be able to do your own thing, running every lunchtime, or will you have to carry sandbags like everyone else?
Will your Saturday football count or will you have to do it on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday too?
Will you start work at 7 instead of 8?
If team sport is allowed will you be made to play football when you prefer rugby, larcrosse or hockey?
Is cricket sufficiently physical?
and so on and so on.
PS, my nominated fitness coordinator, soon to be PTL, when he gets back off leave, has been unfit fitness test for over a year.
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Was the returnee shot or promoted?
Yr PS is a good sign and may in fact give the lardy the kick in the proverbial he/she needs. Wont have much credibility though.
Yr PS is a good sign and may in fact give the lardy the kick in the proverbial he/she needs. Wont have much credibility though.
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SLC, not sure as not my unit but it was my SinL, equal rank, who did the deed - took no prisoners - pretty sure promotion would not have followed but who knows.
As for my lardy, he will remain unfit for the next 4 years - if he has anything to do with it and I shall be long gone. He goes OOA in July.
PS, hot in summer, cold/wet in winter and no sand.
As for my lardy, he will remain unfit for the next 4 years - if he has anything to do with it and I shall be long gone. He goes OOA in July.
PS, hot in summer, cold/wet in winter and no sand.
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When i started doing the fitness tests about '96. I was at the age where I had to achieve a level of 7.3 on the bleep test. When i reached 35 in '97 the level went up, I therefore kept on at 7.3. At 40 I dropped to 6.3 (very easy i know) at 45 the level remained at 6.3. Now if i read the new levels correctly , I have to reach between 8.3 and 8.9 to be considered fit. The lower of these two levels (8.3) is higher than the level I had to attain 11 years ago.
I should, I know keep myself fit, but constant detachments where we are working up to 18 hours a day flying and servicing aircraft means no time to do exercise, when at home I want to spend time with my family.
Even compulsary PT at work for the few weeks in between det's would not help much.
Anyway rant over, the bar is open
I should, I know keep myself fit, but constant detachments where we are working up to 18 hours a day flying and servicing aircraft means no time to do exercise, when at home I want to spend time with my family.
Even compulsary PT at work for the few weeks in between det's would not help much.
Anyway rant over, the bar is open
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Originally Posted by BEagle
Well, that sounds like a well thought out retention measure!
Originally Posted by startermotor
I should, I know keep myself fit, but constant detachments where we are working up to 18 hours a day flying and servicing aircraft means no time to do exercise, when at home I want to spend time with my family.
Embrace change! That's what I'm doing - I'm changing careers!
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Startermotor....
I agree. Most times I have reached a birthday and the levels have dropped, they have gone up again before I took the test again.
Now, if these new levels are again to be increased, I will be doing a level I have not had to acheive in almost 15 years!
These levels were devised and the test developed by Boffins at Loughborough Uni. The RAF Based its intial levels on the findings and results of the Boffintry. The expected amount of failure was now acheived and so the PTI types (Don't get me started on those Stretcher-Bearers), put forward plans to hike the levels as they now knew better than Boffins !!
The vast majority of Police Forces use the same test as an entry requirement only, with no annual testing. Most constabularies (and I know someone will post saying such and such a constabulary is this and that), but most have a test requirement of 5-10! Thats It.
Whilst I do think there is a place for fitness to a prescribed standard and there is a need for evaluation of this, we are currently going massively in the wrong direction. As so many are saying, we have minimal time within the working day now to acheive, let alone factor in 3 x 50 Mins a week in the gym.
With additional threats of of extended working days to ensure attendance at mandated PT sessions, Remedial PT for persons who fail to attain the new levels and ultimate administrative action should an individual fail to achieve these new levels after a series of attempts; this will do nothing but turn more people away from the service at a time when we are Haemorrhaging personnel.
I believe (again, please prove me wrong someone), that QR's state you are to maintain a level of fitness sufficient to be able to perform your duties. If someone is capable of serving OOA, they are therfore fit, regardless of what any Bleep test and person in shorts three sizes to tight says. Exceptions exsist and we all look and wonder at how certain individuals manage to walk let alone climb stairs; but they are not the norm. The vast majority of personnel in the RAF are fully capable of performing their duties. They must therefore, BE FIT.
Finally, I think it will be a brave person who terminates the career of someone on the basis of failure to acheive a level on the Beep test. As the youngest Female level is easier than all but the top Male levels, there is grounds for sexual discrimination. Additionally, in a soceity now which does not allow Ageism, we have age related levels.
Mr Gilbert Blades and partners will be getting increased custom.....
Now, if these new levels are again to be increased, I will be doing a level I have not had to acheive in almost 15 years!
These levels were devised and the test developed by Boffins at Loughborough Uni. The RAF Based its intial levels on the findings and results of the Boffintry. The expected amount of failure was now acheived and so the PTI types (Don't get me started on those Stretcher-Bearers), put forward plans to hike the levels as they now knew better than Boffins !!
The vast majority of Police Forces use the same test as an entry requirement only, with no annual testing. Most constabularies (and I know someone will post saying such and such a constabulary is this and that), but most have a test requirement of 5-10! Thats It.
Whilst I do think there is a place for fitness to a prescribed standard and there is a need for evaluation of this, we are currently going massively in the wrong direction. As so many are saying, we have minimal time within the working day now to acheive, let alone factor in 3 x 50 Mins a week in the gym.
With additional threats of of extended working days to ensure attendance at mandated PT sessions, Remedial PT for persons who fail to attain the new levels and ultimate administrative action should an individual fail to achieve these new levels after a series of attempts; this will do nothing but turn more people away from the service at a time when we are Haemorrhaging personnel.
I believe (again, please prove me wrong someone), that QR's state you are to maintain a level of fitness sufficient to be able to perform your duties. If someone is capable of serving OOA, they are therfore fit, regardless of what any Bleep test and person in shorts three sizes to tight says. Exceptions exsist and we all look and wonder at how certain individuals manage to walk let alone climb stairs; but they are not the norm. The vast majority of personnel in the RAF are fully capable of performing their duties. They must therefore, BE FIT.
Finally, I think it will be a brave person who terminates the career of someone on the basis of failure to acheive a level on the Beep test. As the youngest Female level is easier than all but the top Male levels, there is grounds for sexual discrimination. Additionally, in a soceity now which does not allow Ageism, we have age related levels.
Mr Gilbert Blades and partners will be getting increased custom.....
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Only Crabs could make this much fuss about basic levels of fitness 
Fitter people take less sick days. Fact.
Fitter people have better levels of concentration. Fact.
Fitter people aclimatise quicker. Fact.
Fitter people can maintain higher levels of activety, for longer in extremes of temperature. Fact.
People who maintain good levels of fitness are more likely to eat a healthier diet. Fact.
People who maintain good levels of fitness are less likely to smoke. Fact.
Keeping fit promotes self discipline. (therein lies the problem, perhaps!)
Etc, etc, etc.....
There are so many reasons why good physical fitness is beneficial to any employer, but especially a military one. Not only that, but it's being suggested that you do it in the firms time. I could understand the gripes if you were expected to do it in your own couch/playstation/bar/fast food time, but you're not.
Anyway, startermotor said that over his career, he has had to achieve between 6.3 and 8.3 on the Beep Test. I mean, come on, how fit do you need to be to achieve that! It's not like you're being asked to get to an unreasonable level now is it?
Fitter people take less sick days. Fact.
Fitter people have better levels of concentration. Fact.
Fitter people aclimatise quicker. Fact.
Fitter people can maintain higher levels of activety, for longer in extremes of temperature. Fact.
People who maintain good levels of fitness are more likely to eat a healthier diet. Fact.
People who maintain good levels of fitness are less likely to smoke. Fact.
Keeping fit promotes self discipline. (therein lies the problem, perhaps!)
Etc, etc, etc.....
There are so many reasons why good physical fitness is beneficial to any employer, but especially a military one. Not only that, but it's being suggested that you do it in the firms time. I could understand the gripes if you were expected to do it in your own couch/playstation/bar/fast food time, but you're not.
Anyway, startermotor said that over his career, he has had to achieve between 6.3 and 8.3 on the Beep Test. I mean, come on, how fit do you need to be to achieve that! It's not like you're being asked to get to an unreasonable level now is it?
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I agree it is not an unreasonable level to achieve. My point is that the levels have just shot up in one fell swoop. gone down or stayed constant for 11 years then up. No compulsary PT or time to carry out any training.
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Mrs AA was diagnosed with MS twenty years ago. She's not got the worst kind of MS, but her right side is permanently damaged.
She goes to the gym 4x/week. If she can do it, so can everyone serving in the Armed Forces, if the facilities are on site and available for use, and they have time in the day to do it.
She goes to the gym 4x/week. If she can do it, so can everyone serving in the Armed Forces, if the facilities are on site and available for use, and they have time in the day to do it.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
A_A, sympathies with Mrs AA but the crucial bit in your message was
.
True there will be many moaners who could, without much effort, make time. There was a time when lineys, between waves, would play volley-ball. It took no space and could be done at the drop of a ball and they could return to work in moments.
With leaning this sort of 'free-time' would have been redeployed to some other more useful employment. As 'free-time' was absorbed establishments were cut. OOA then impinges on manning too so what is left is stretched.
The culture change that is required is to raise the importance of fitness above the diversions such as the flypro.
and they have time in the day to do it.
True there will be many moaners who could, without much effort, make time. There was a time when lineys, between waves, would play volley-ball. It took no space and could be done at the drop of a ball and they could return to work in moments.
With leaning this sort of 'free-time' would have been redeployed to some other more useful employment. As 'free-time' was absorbed establishments were cut. OOA then impinges on manning too so what is left is stretched.
The culture change that is required is to raise the importance of fitness above the diversions such as the flypro.
