Female C-130 pilot - The Sunday Times
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One team, one fight. Hoorah...
Here's a useful tip: I tie my pencil to my leg with a piece of elastic, then it doesn't go very far if I drop it. The piece of elastic is long enough so that all areas of my kneeboard can be reached but short enough to stop me from poking myself in the eye by accident.
I dread to think what would happen if a Herc pilot fell asleep at the controls. I wonder if the other pilot would manage until they woke up again?
In fact, we should produce a list of those trades who are entitled to sleep, and those who can stay up all night guarding the rest of us. At least that would stop all this bickering and arguing.
Here's a useful tip: I tie my pencil to my leg with a piece of elastic, then it doesn't go very far if I drop it. The piece of elastic is long enough so that all areas of my kneeboard can be reached but short enough to stop me from poking myself in the eye by accident.
I dread to think what would happen if a Herc pilot fell asleep at the controls. I wonder if the other pilot would manage until they woke up again?
Aircrew are not the only people to operate under these conditions, and i really hope the Docs, nurses sentries etc get to sleep well too.
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I note that all the aircrew are defending her, but all the 'less stringent trades' can actually see the article for what it is. Naive!!
She maybe a good pilot but her PR skills leave a lot to be desired. If I had submitted an interview like that, I would have been up in front of my boss sharpish.
She maybe a good pilot but her PR skills leave a lot to be desired. If I had submitted an interview like that, I would have been up in front of my boss sharpish.
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Actually 'Doobs' I don't believe all the aircrew are supporting her.
Pprune is not as widely used as many think and the views made by some of the aircrew on this thread don't echo those I heard at Hampshire's premiere helicopter unit yesterday, in fact a very senior Chinook pilot referred to her as a f&%king idiot, well within earshot of us humble OR's. Perhaps unfair on her, after all the nasty press must have put words in her well-educated mouth, but nevertheless a differing view from a member of the same breed.
Pprune is not as widely used as many think and the views made by some of the aircrew on this thread don't echo those I heard at Hampshire's premiere helicopter unit yesterday, in fact a very senior Chinook pilot referred to her as a f&%king idiot, well within earshot of us humble OR's. Perhaps unfair on her, after all the nasty press must have put words in her well-educated mouth, but nevertheless a differing view from a member of the same breed.
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unfortuneately this "girl" has tarred all the female aircrew with the same brush-dizzy at best,only there cause they are a girl at worst.they are not all scatty-some are very good but some of the male fraternity that read this SURELY cannot be outdone by a "girlie.Stupid comments made with not a lot of though put into them,with a little too much self importance-my view-would never hear bloke say that-he would be shot for being a woos.
cc
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''...the less stringent tasks of an air trafficker...oops, they might approve the army to fire mortars in an area where you're flying and you might get shot down!''
Well that made me laugh.
Yes, the word 'naive' definitely springs to mind.
And how exactly does this comment make you laugh? Where is the naivety in stating a fact?
If you really think that the mortars surrounding your LZ do not need authorisation to fire when they have a potential vertex height of >8000ft,then it is you that is naive!!
Well that made me laugh.
Yes, the word 'naive' definitely springs to mind.
And how exactly does this comment make you laugh? Where is the naivety in stating a fact?
If you really think that the mortars surrounding your LZ do not need authorisation to fire when they have a potential vertex height of >8000ft,then it is you that is naive!!
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Doobs,
I think you're wrong, not all the aircrew are standing up for her, and I am certainly not. It was a stupid and foolish thing to have done, and I blame her CO and her Captain as much as her for not educating her before.
Sadly, she will probably have got all these remarks and comments stashed away somewhere safe, and before you know it (when she's poss' had enough of living in the sand pit) she will be up in court suing the MOD for harrassment, sexual and otherwise and claiming millions!
Oh God, you can see the headlines now can't you???
As for her remarks about other trades, may I at least offer an apology on behalf of the Aircrew. I am sorry and embarrassed by her remarks about the rest of you - shame on her, but it's not how most aircrew feel, believe me.
Spotty pilot - how old are you really? I've never read such utter drivel in all my life:
'Aviation is an endeavour in which a slight misjudgement made in an instant, under pressure can easily lead to death' What a blinding statement!! Yes, your right, but the same goes for the Air trafickers, the armourers, refuellers, even the little Joe on the gate with a gun. As aircrew, we are NOT the only ones in this world who could potentially kill of injure someone, there are lots out there - infact I would suggest probably most of the miltary could one way or another! (even the cooks!!)
Kind regards to all, especially all the groundies (still not too sure about the blunties though! Oops!!)
TSM
I think you're wrong, not all the aircrew are standing up for her, and I am certainly not. It was a stupid and foolish thing to have done, and I blame her CO and her Captain as much as her for not educating her before.
Sadly, she will probably have got all these remarks and comments stashed away somewhere safe, and before you know it (when she's poss' had enough of living in the sand pit) she will be up in court suing the MOD for harrassment, sexual and otherwise and claiming millions!
Oh God, you can see the headlines now can't you???
As for her remarks about other trades, may I at least offer an apology on behalf of the Aircrew. I am sorry and embarrassed by her remarks about the rest of you - shame on her, but it's not how most aircrew feel, believe me.
Spotty pilot - how old are you really? I've never read such utter drivel in all my life:
'Aviation is an endeavour in which a slight misjudgement made in an instant, under pressure can easily lead to death' What a blinding statement!! Yes, your right, but the same goes for the Air trafickers, the armourers, refuellers, even the little Joe on the gate with a gun. As aircrew, we are NOT the only ones in this world who could potentially kill of injure someone, there are lots out there - infact I would suggest probably most of the miltary could one way or another! (even the cooks!!)
Kind regards to all, especially all the groundies (still not too sure about the blunties though! Oops!!)
TSM
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Reached ARRSE....http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/...c/t=58412.html
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TSM,
You are a buffoon of the highest order, you have absolutely no knowledge of the individual in question yet you making your sweeping "she's a girl therefore is bound to sue for harassment when the going gets too tough" generalization
I do know Caz and am 100% confident that she would look an obviously crusty old sexist like yourself straight in the eye and tell you, very politely to knob off.
She has been back and forward to both sand pits way more times I would suggest than you and most of the sanctimonious arses who have posted here, and is currently showing none of the implied "girlishness" that curmudgeonly sexists like you perceive.
As was alluded to a few posts back if it was a male sky god being "journoed" in this fashion would there be some of the very ill informed vitriol being posted on here...........me thinks not
You are a buffoon of the highest order, you have absolutely no knowledge of the individual in question yet you making your sweeping "she's a girl therefore is bound to sue for harassment when the going gets too tough" generalization
I do know Caz and am 100% confident that she would look an obviously crusty old sexist like yourself straight in the eye and tell you, very politely to knob off.
She has been back and forward to both sand pits way more times I would suggest than you and most of the sanctimonious arses who have posted here, and is currently showing none of the implied "girlishness" that curmudgeonly sexists like you perceive.
As was alluded to a few posts back if it was a male sky god being "journoed" in this fashion would there be some of the very ill informed vitriol being posted on here...........me thinks not
As was alluded to a few posts back if it was a male sky god being "journoed" in this fashion would there be some of the very ill informed vitriol being posted on here...........me thinks not
It is, however, good to see that chivalry is not dead and that the secret Wiltshire airfield is still full of gentlemen!
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I am neither crusty nor sexist but the truth of the matter is that the only buffoon is the one who gave the interview. As a service we don't really help ourselves do we? It would be perhaps be understable if the interview was given by an 18 yr old straight out of training but to come from a commissioned officer flying on ops is totally inexcusable. 
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SFFP
Thank you for your such eloquent remarks - it clearly shows your level of intelligence and understanding.
I have no doubt that the young lady has been to the sand pit more times than I have, but so what? My time there was spent operating in theatre for a couple of months at a time, not trucking to and from! If you would like me to work out my flying hours 'in theatre' please let me know and I'llm be glad to oblige you.
Whatever you feel about my few remarks, I do note that you make absolutely no reference to any of the outrageous ones made by her? Do you agree with them? Do you agree with any of them?
The fact is, this girl was bang out of order, both for giving the interview in the first place and by compounding things with her stupid and ignorant remarks "they might break a pencil" - how sad and pathetic is that?
Yes, I may be old and crusty, and I may even be a bit sexist, and I sadly no longer spend several moths at a time in the sand pit, but I don't think I'm the buffoon here. I think it is she, and possibly you for defending her!
And just for the record, as AIRCREW I am embarrassed by her comments about the troops and so should you be. Without ALL of them, (even the blunties) we wouldn't have anything at all, try to remember that. They don't need to be made to feel any less wanted or respected by pompous and unwarranted comments as made by your young baby co-pilot.
TSM
Thank you for your such eloquent remarks - it clearly shows your level of intelligence and understanding.
I have no doubt that the young lady has been to the sand pit more times than I have, but so what? My time there was spent operating in theatre for a couple of months at a time, not trucking to and from! If you would like me to work out my flying hours 'in theatre' please let me know and I'llm be glad to oblige you.
Whatever you feel about my few remarks, I do note that you make absolutely no reference to any of the outrageous ones made by her? Do you agree with them? Do you agree with any of them?
The fact is, this girl was bang out of order, both for giving the interview in the first place and by compounding things with her stupid and ignorant remarks "they might break a pencil" - how sad and pathetic is that?
Yes, I may be old and crusty, and I may even be a bit sexist, and I sadly no longer spend several moths at a time in the sand pit, but I don't think I'm the buffoon here. I think it is she, and possibly you for defending her!
And just for the record, as AIRCREW I am embarrassed by her comments about the troops and so should you be. Without ALL of them, (even the blunties) we wouldn't have anything at all, try to remember that. They don't need to be made to feel any less wanted or respected by pompous and unwarranted comments as made by your young baby co-pilot.
TSM
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Caz is a top girl and spot on crew member, I would do a det with her anytime, no problem. So lets give her a break...I'm sure we are all guilty of spouting complete boŁŁock$ once in a while. However, not good to 'diss' other trades, unfortunately there seems to be a lot of it about especially at Lyneham. Why do Herc pilots genuinely think they're a cut above the rest?
GM
GM
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TSM / Redcarpet,
I'm with you here. Flying into and out of or continually operating in any theatre is largely irrelevant to the question.
The FACT is, she is a Commissioned Officer in the Armed Forces and should know to carefully choose her words in front of self opinionated journalists looking for a good story. She should set the standard for those (by affording them enough respect to not belittle their jobs) around her who have to LIVE for months in the very accommodation she shares and at least have the grace to understand that her discomfort will be over when she gets back to her king size bed in the next 24 hrs.
Would she have the same 'oh well, he/she's a great guy' attitude as some of you here if one of her subordinates had uttered the same things to the press. Maybe she would, but I'll bet she'd have to discipline them nonetheless.
I'm sure she's a great pilot, wonderful young woman and this was just a case of catching her off guard. This is why I think the single biggest failure is that of the PRO/CRO/CCO (whatever acronym works) and her chain of command.
And that fact does not surprise me in the least.
I'm with you here. Flying into and out of or continually operating in any theatre is largely irrelevant to the question.
The FACT is, she is a Commissioned Officer in the Armed Forces and should know to carefully choose her words in front of self opinionated journalists looking for a good story. She should set the standard for those (by affording them enough respect to not belittle their jobs) around her who have to LIVE for months in the very accommodation she shares and at least have the grace to understand that her discomfort will be over when she gets back to her king size bed in the next 24 hrs.
Would she have the same 'oh well, he/she's a great guy' attitude as some of you here if one of her subordinates had uttered the same things to the press. Maybe she would, but I'll bet she'd have to discipline them nonetheless.
I'm sure she's a great pilot, wonderful young woman and this was just a case of catching her off guard. This is why I think the single biggest failure is that of the PRO/CRO/CCO (whatever acronym works) and her chain of command.
And that fact does not surprise me in the least.
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1 Had an OR given an interview in similar vein they would have been in deep trouble
2 In my experience groundcrew work long hours getting the aircraft ready before and after flight meaning sleep is at a premium when on deployment.
3 Many other personnel are in far more dangerous situations than C-130 aircrew. If I were the army I would be particularly aggrieved as they constantly deal with situations in theatre that can cost a lot more lives than a herc crew.
4 I am sure she makes sure she gets adequate rest when on a red flag or other detachments.
5 Irrespective of how she meant to come across for a supposed intelligent pragmatic individual she hasn't done very well.
6 It is precisely this kind of statement and attitude which creates the them and us condition between aircrew and ground crew.
7. As for the person who claims that having experienced guard duty on IOT and it is easy I suggest they try it in theatre or indeed for a sustained period of time anywhere. Or even living in field conditions for months at a time - That was probably an even more crass statement than the interview.
2 In my experience groundcrew work long hours getting the aircraft ready before and after flight meaning sleep is at a premium when on deployment.
3 Many other personnel are in far more dangerous situations than C-130 aircrew. If I were the army I would be particularly aggrieved as they constantly deal with situations in theatre that can cost a lot more lives than a herc crew.
4 I am sure she makes sure she gets adequate rest when on a red flag or other detachments.
5 Irrespective of how she meant to come across for a supposed intelligent pragmatic individual she hasn't done very well.
6 It is precisely this kind of statement and attitude which creates the them and us condition between aircrew and ground crew.
7. As for the person who claims that having experienced guard duty on IOT and it is easy I suggest they try it in theatre or indeed for a sustained period of time anywhere. Or even living in field conditions for months at a time - That was probably an even more crass statement than the interview.
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I love it when the chipped and ill informed post, it's then easy to make them look silly
"She should set the standard for those (by affording them enough respect to not belittle their jobs) around her who have to LIVE for months in the very accommodation she shares and at least have the grace to understand that her discomfort will be over when she gets back to her king size bed in the next 24 hrs."
Caz, like the majority of her colleagues will have done over previous years and will continue to do for the foreseeable future several one month detachments to both the sandy places!
Not sure how many she has done to date but the rather silly supposition that she is only there for 24 hours before returning to her comfy fluffy bed and doesn't spend a prolonged period of time on a camp cot is, rather like the poster just plain daft
"She should set the standard for those (by affording them enough respect to not belittle their jobs) around her who have to LIVE for months in the very accommodation she shares and at least have the grace to understand that her discomfort will be over when she gets back to her king size bed in the next 24 hrs."
Caz, like the majority of her colleagues will have done over previous years and will continue to do for the foreseeable future several one month detachments to both the sandy places!
Not sure how many she has done to date but the rather silly supposition that she is only there for 24 hours before returning to her comfy fluffy bed and doesn't spend a prolonged period of time on a camp cot is, rather like the poster just plain daft
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Ok. Did she do 4 or 6 mths solid without going home?
Was she away from her family & friends for 4/6 mths?
Did she indeed go home within a few days?
I'll bet the answers are;
No, no, yes.
You are quick to criticise me, but my main point, which you fail to acknowledge, is that these ill-informed comments should never have got as far as a newspaper.
Was she away from her family & friends for 4/6 mths?
Did she indeed go home within a few days?
I'll bet the answers are;
No, no, yes.
You are quick to criticise me, but my main point, which you fail to acknowledge, is that these ill-informed comments should never have got as far as a newspaper.
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Ok, for the sake of sanity and probably correctness, I'm prepared to concede that she/you/they will spend lots of time in theatre.
Belittling others who are out there to the press is still inexcusable. As is allowing those comments, by a junior officer, to make it to print.
Belittling others who are out there to the press is still inexcusable. As is allowing those comments, by a junior officer, to make it to print.
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Chelsea,
"Had an OR given an interview in similar vein they would have been in deep trouble"
Why? If the interview had been approved why would anyone be in trouble?
"In my experience groundcrew work long hours getting the aircraft ready before and after flight meaning sleep is at a premium when on deployment."
As do just about everyone else including the crews, 14 hours on then 10 for 10 days at a time is not unusual!
"Many other personnel are in far more dangerous situations than C-130 aircrew. If I were the army I would be particularly aggrieved as they constantly deal with situations in theatre that can cost a lot more lives than a herc crew."
I don't disagree with some of what you say however bearing in mind how many folk travel in Albert in theater do the sums yourself.
"I am sure she makes sure she gets adequate rest when on a red flag or other detachments."
Possibly or possibly not but as dets other than the desert are few and far between who really knows.
"Irrespective of how she meant to come across for a supposed intelligent pragmatic individual she hasn't done very well."
Correct she has not come across very well but how do you KNOW what she meant and how she hoped to come across when giving the interview?
"As for the person who claims that having experienced guard duty on IOT and it is easy I suggest they try it in theatre or indeed for a sustained period of time anywhere. Or even living in field conditions for months at a time "
What is difficult about guard duty, I have done it in Best blue armed with a pick axe handle, QRF on a nuclear armed base, live armed guard as we are now and guard commander and have yet to find anything difficult about it. Yes it's tiring, boring, tedious pick your own adjective for it but it's certainly not difficult. In fact it's that easy I have colleagues who would rather do a month of it in UK than go on yet another month long living in field conditions sandy det!
There is no them and us, you just think there is
"Had an OR given an interview in similar vein they would have been in deep trouble"
Why? If the interview had been approved why would anyone be in trouble?
"In my experience groundcrew work long hours getting the aircraft ready before and after flight meaning sleep is at a premium when on deployment."
As do just about everyone else including the crews, 14 hours on then 10 for 10 days at a time is not unusual!
"Many other personnel are in far more dangerous situations than C-130 aircrew. If I were the army I would be particularly aggrieved as they constantly deal with situations in theatre that can cost a lot more lives than a herc crew."
I don't disagree with some of what you say however bearing in mind how many folk travel in Albert in theater do the sums yourself.
"I am sure she makes sure she gets adequate rest when on a red flag or other detachments."
Possibly or possibly not but as dets other than the desert are few and far between who really knows.
"Irrespective of how she meant to come across for a supposed intelligent pragmatic individual she hasn't done very well."
Correct she has not come across very well but how do you KNOW what she meant and how she hoped to come across when giving the interview?
"As for the person who claims that having experienced guard duty on IOT and it is easy I suggest they try it in theatre or indeed for a sustained period of time anywhere. Or even living in field conditions for months at a time "
What is difficult about guard duty, I have done it in Best blue armed with a pick axe handle, QRF on a nuclear armed base, live armed guard as we are now and guard commander and have yet to find anything difficult about it. Yes it's tiring, boring, tedious pick your own adjective for it but it's certainly not difficult. In fact it's that easy I have colleagues who would rather do a month of it in UK than go on yet another month long living in field conditions sandy det!
There is no them and us, you just think there is