Female C-130 pilot - The Sunday Times
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SFFP,
I'd like to think you're right about "there is no them and us", but how do you think the following reads to "them"?
You also said, in response to Chelsea,
"Correct she has not come across very well but how do you KNOW what she meant and how she hoped to come across when giving the interview?"
One can only assume that we knew exactly what she meant (in a good sense - ie, I'd rather bunk with my crew than be disturbed) and that she didn't mean to come across in the manner portrayed by the interviewer. Anything else would be very damning indeed.
I'd like to think you're right about "there is no them and us", but how do you think the following reads to "them"?
From the original post: "In Basra I'm supposed to shack up with in the women's tent, but they get up at random times for LESS STRINGENT DUTIES(!!!). If they have a disturbed night, THEY MIGHT DROP THEIR PENCIL(!!!!!) - but I could crash an aircraft ..."
"Correct she has not come across very well but how do you KNOW what she meant and how she hoped to come across when giving the interview?"
One can only assume that we knew exactly what she meant (in a good sense - ie, I'd rather bunk with my crew than be disturbed) and that she didn't mean to come across in the manner portrayed by the interviewer. Anything else would be very damning indeed.
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So 3.4 as you agree your previous assertions with regards to fluffy beds were just plain daft have a think about this
"Belittling others who are out there to the press is still inexcusable"
How do you or anyone else for that matter KNOW what context her comments were made in, how she perceived them when she made them and how she hoped/expected them to be portrayed in the final print.........answer you DON'T and as it sadly transpires neither did she.
So maybe a little less pomposity and a bit more there but for the grace of god are the order of the day. I know the girl and would bet my mortgage that she did not mean any of the things written in the manner they were written and all you holier than thou types who simply DO NOT KNOW ALL THE FACTS should be giving her the benefit of the doubt.
"Belittling others who are out there to the press is still inexcusable"
How do you or anyone else for that matter KNOW what context her comments were made in, how she perceived them when she made them and how she hoped/expected them to be portrayed in the final print.........answer you DON'T and as it sadly transpires neither did she.
So maybe a little less pomposity and a bit more there but for the grace of god are the order of the day. I know the girl and would bet my mortgage that she did not mean any of the things written in the manner they were written and all you holier than thou types who simply DO NOT KNOW ALL THE FACTS should be giving her the benefit of the doubt.
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How do you or anyone else for that matter KNOW what context her comments were made in, how she perceived them when she made them and how she hoped/expected them to be portrayed in the final print.........answer you DON'T and as it sadly transpires neither did she.
Q. What are the sleeping arrangements like here?
A. I found that my sleep was disturbed on a number of occasions by the other shift workers so I moved tents and now bunk with my crew who share a common work/rest pattern.
Simple.
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If there is no them and us how can one think there is? by definition the impression must have been created for one to think so!!
Guard duty is tiring ,tedious, boring and when in theatre stressful. Guarding a site in deepest darkest England when no genuine threat exists does not equate. IOT DOES not give you the full flavour and yes any person with sense would rather do guard duty than deploy.
Thank you for confirming that everybody works long stressful hours, something not readily apparent in her interview.
The statement is wrong no matter how you look at it. She must have said something along those lines for it to be printed and yes the press may have put a spin on it.
The fact still remains that for long sustained periods of time more people are in dangerous conditions than the majority of herc crews!!
No matter how you try and defend her the underlying attitude comes across as arrogant whether she intended to or not. So yes the question should be who authorised it, was it approved for release and if so does it not say something about the attitude of the PR that they cannot see the effect this kind of interview has on the military. No them and us just think about it for a second!!!
Guard duty is tiring ,tedious, boring and when in theatre stressful. Guarding a site in deepest darkest England when no genuine threat exists does not equate. IOT DOES not give you the full flavour and yes any person with sense would rather do guard duty than deploy.
Thank you for confirming that everybody works long stressful hours, something not readily apparent in her interview.
The statement is wrong no matter how you look at it. She must have said something along those lines for it to be printed and yes the press may have put a spin on it.
The fact still remains that for long sustained periods of time more people are in dangerous conditions than the majority of herc crews!!
No matter how you try and defend her the underlying attitude comes across as arrogant whether she intended to or not. So yes the question should be who authorised it, was it approved for release and if so does it not say something about the attitude of the PR that they cannot see the effect this kind of interview has on the military. No them and us just think about it for a second!!!
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SFFP
Do you intend to answer any of the questions put to you on this forum or are you just going to sit there and slag off anyone who makes a fair and reasoned comment about what your Girlie co pilot said?
The fact is she screwed up with her remarks, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it, even she will know it by now with hindsight. For goodness sake try to accept that and stop your rudeness to those of us who have voiced our displeasure at her comments. At the end of the day, she is a 'bog-standard, Mk1 Co Pilot' end of story. She is nothing out of the ordinary, and she should not have given the interview in the first place.
I fail to see how "In Basra I'm supposed to shack up with in the women's tent, but they get up at random times for LESS STRINGENT DUTIES(!!!). If they have a disturbed night, THEY MIGHT DROP THEIR PENCIL(!!!!!) - but I could crash an aircraft ..." can possibly be taken out of context - she either said it or she didn't, and you won't deny that she did say it, so whats your argument?
Your defence of her may be commendable, but you must understand that she was totally out of order. If she didn't have the common sense to realise what might happen, then that is both her failure and those of her colleagues - including you. Her comments about our groundcrew were wholly wrong and I very much hope that some very old, very crusty and very sexist Ground Crew Warrant Officer or MACR takes her to one side and 'educates' her in the manner which befits her total lack of tact! That way, she may just think twice before she spouts off at a journo' and ends up looking a prat!
TSM
Do you intend to answer any of the questions put to you on this forum or are you just going to sit there and slag off anyone who makes a fair and reasoned comment about what your Girlie co pilot said?
The fact is she screwed up with her remarks, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it, even she will know it by now with hindsight. For goodness sake try to accept that and stop your rudeness to those of us who have voiced our displeasure at her comments. At the end of the day, she is a 'bog-standard, Mk1 Co Pilot' end of story. She is nothing out of the ordinary, and she should not have given the interview in the first place.
I fail to see how "In Basra I'm supposed to shack up with in the women's tent, but they get up at random times for LESS STRINGENT DUTIES(!!!). If they have a disturbed night, THEY MIGHT DROP THEIR PENCIL(!!!!!) - but I could crash an aircraft ..." can possibly be taken out of context - she either said it or she didn't, and you won't deny that she did say it, so whats your argument?
Your defence of her may be commendable, but you must understand that she was totally out of order. If she didn't have the common sense to realise what might happen, then that is both her failure and those of her colleagues - including you. Her comments about our groundcrew were wholly wrong and I very much hope that some very old, very crusty and very sexist Ground Crew Warrant Officer or MACR takes her to one side and 'educates' her in the manner which befits her total lack of tact! That way, she may just think twice before she spouts off at a journo' and ends up looking a prat!
TSM
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I think it best I give up with this one as you good folk in here are obviously way more informed on this than me however just as a passing thought.
It's a poor example to use bearing in mind the tragedy of the day but cast your minds back to the tragic loss of the Nimrod and the swathe of highly inaccurate reporting on that day. Do you all remember the vitriol within Prune as the parentage of the journo's was questioned as they allowed their clamor for a story to bring fear and worry into the hearts of so many as they worried about their in theater loved ones. And how on many other occasions we have taken Jacko and others like him to task as regards the morality of their profession.
Now ask yourself if it's possible that someone like Caz, to all intents an innocent at large in the journalistic world could have been sucker punched in this manner by a very streetwise and headline focused journo?
Personally I am giving her the benefit of the doubt but you lot feel free to stay up there on your soap boxes
It's a poor example to use bearing in mind the tragedy of the day but cast your minds back to the tragic loss of the Nimrod and the swathe of highly inaccurate reporting on that day. Do you all remember the vitriol within Prune as the parentage of the journo's was questioned as they allowed their clamor for a story to bring fear and worry into the hearts of so many as they worried about their in theater loved ones. And how on many other occasions we have taken Jacko and others like him to task as regards the morality of their profession.
Now ask yourself if it's possible that someone like Caz, to all intents an innocent at large in the journalistic world could have been sucker punched in this manner by a very streetwise and headline focused journo?
Personally I am giving her the benefit of the doubt but you lot feel free to stay up there on your soap boxes
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Back onto topic...
Giving her the benefit of the doubt on what exactly?
1. Are you suggesting she didn't say those words (I rather suspect the journo has a tape of the entire conversation - this could be rubbished tomorrow by the MoD in tomorrow's papers if it turns out to be a made up conversation)?
- In this case then she is entirely without fault and I expect to see the smallest of editorial retractions tucked away in the small ads of tomorrow's paper (as usual!). My breath is bated ....
2. Or are you saying that she said them, but we are ALL mis-interpreting them?
- Bad form. As someone else said, we are all one team - don't (to use a modern term) 'diss' the others to the press, no matter how jokey, sarcastic or 'off-the-record' the comment is supposed to be.
3. Or lastly, that she said them but didn't know what she was saying to the press?
- Then let someone who is competent/awake speak to the press.
AFAI can see, the only 'benefit of the doubt' is in point 1 above. The latter 2 show degrees of poor judgement and leadership.
SFFP,
Without rubbishing ME or changing the subject, can you explain what u mean by 'give her the benefit of the doubt'?
Personally I am giving her the benefit of the doubt but you lot feel free to stay up there on your soap boxes
1. Are you suggesting she didn't say those words (I rather suspect the journo has a tape of the entire conversation - this could be rubbished tomorrow by the MoD in tomorrow's papers if it turns out to be a made up conversation)?
- In this case then she is entirely without fault and I expect to see the smallest of editorial retractions tucked away in the small ads of tomorrow's paper (as usual!). My breath is bated ....
2. Or are you saying that she said them, but we are ALL mis-interpreting them?
- Bad form. As someone else said, we are all one team - don't (to use a modern term) 'diss' the others to the press, no matter how jokey, sarcastic or 'off-the-record' the comment is supposed to be.
3. Or lastly, that she said them but didn't know what she was saying to the press?
- Then let someone who is competent/awake speak to the press.
AFAI can see, the only 'benefit of the doubt' is in point 1 above. The latter 2 show degrees of poor judgement and leadership.
SFFP,
Without rubbishing ME or changing the subject, can you explain what u mean by 'give her the benefit of the doubt'?
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blimey 3.14 you are like a stuck record. I think everyting has been said now and you should just let it lie.
Doesn't look really good when one RAF Officer is slagging off another on a public forum.
Doesn't look really good when one RAF Officer is slagging off another on a public forum.
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