Female C-130 pilot - The Sunday Times
Those crews never once mentioned crew duty time and were available any time of the day at a minutes notice. True professionals.
Perhaps different tasks?
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Fox,
I read your other post so I think I know the crews you are referring to and you are quite correct with your assertions but their task/tasking was very very different to the day to day stuff the rest of us mere mortals do.
Without some sort of crew duty/rest considerations the daily scheduled tasking we do would never be achieved, but the guys you worked with did not have the same schedule based constraints and were therefore able to react to their "users" needs in the thoroughly professional way the did and still do.
The natural assumption is that they do all the dangerous stuff and the rest of us haul trash and in the main that is a fair conclusion as they go to some very dodgy places indeed, however consider the loss last year of the Herc in Herrick and the recent loss of another in Telic and you will see that there is always danger lurking round the corner irrespective of your type or specialisation.
You like so many others in here have allowed journalistic license to cloud your judgment and I will not waste my time trying to dissuade you however I would offer my kids into Arab slavery if you actually met her and within 5 minutes hadn't realised what a crock of sh1t the article written about her is
I read your other post so I think I know the crews you are referring to and you are quite correct with your assertions but their task/tasking was very very different to the day to day stuff the rest of us mere mortals do.
Without some sort of crew duty/rest considerations the daily scheduled tasking we do would never be achieved, but the guys you worked with did not have the same schedule based constraints and were therefore able to react to their "users" needs in the thoroughly professional way the did and still do.
The natural assumption is that they do all the dangerous stuff and the rest of us haul trash and in the main that is a fair conclusion as they go to some very dodgy places indeed, however consider the loss last year of the Herc in Herrick and the recent loss of another in Telic and you will see that there is always danger lurking round the corner irrespective of your type or specialisation.
You like so many others in here have allowed journalistic license to cloud your judgment and I will not waste my time trying to dissuade you however I would offer my kids into Arab slavery if you actually met her and within 5 minutes hadn't realised what a crock of sh1t the article written about her is
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And still the story continues.
I have to say that I agree with many on this forum, that some comments that Caz made, (even if perhaps "adjusted" for the artilcle) were silly or misplaced.
I do not know Caz, but I would like to think that she would not have tried intentionally, in a public newspaper article, to "big" herself up or to belittle those who are not of the pilot or aircrew fraternity.
IF Caz did really say and mean those comments to which this thread is all about then she deserves every bit of abuse aimed at her.
However,
I believe Caz was talking casually with this Journo, and perhaps came out with some comments (that in the RAF are used daily as "banter" between personnel) that perhaps she now wishes she had not said. (The article would have been no worse if they had not been published)
I know in this PC world that we live in, even now I will give as good as I get, "banter" is banter, it has gone on between groundcrew and aircrew since the first pilot flew in the military. It goes on between Movers and Teccies, Aircrew and Movers, Teccies and Admin and Aircrew and everyone. Banter is Banter, the military thrive on it, however many (non) military people can not tolerate the level of banter we sometimes use. Sure, everyone must at some stage admit to making a comment that belittles someone else compared to them, we are human, we like to think we are sometimes better than someone else, it can (sometimes) be reffered to as personal pride (perhaps) in your own mind.
I think some of the comments she made should have been confined to the bar, and not made to the general populus.
My partner (a civvie) read the article and said "Who does she think she is, what a childish comment to make, does she think she is the only one who is important in the RAF".
Childish comment............I think that may sum this up, and the constant bickering between some of the PPRuNer's on this thread........the same.
Come on guys, keep the morale up by banter at work, keep it at work though. or let's start a banter thread where we can just be childish ourselves, (oh, we have) banter however is only banter when you know the other person(s), if you don't then it suddenly becomes "slagging".
Just a thought mind.
Disclaimer
Whilst these are my views they may not neccessarily mirror those of other members of this site.
I have to say that I agree with many on this forum, that some comments that Caz made, (even if perhaps "adjusted" for the artilcle) were silly or misplaced.
I do not know Caz, but I would like to think that she would not have tried intentionally, in a public newspaper article, to "big" herself up or to belittle those who are not of the pilot or aircrew fraternity.
IF Caz did really say and mean those comments to which this thread is all about then she deserves every bit of abuse aimed at her.
However,
I believe Caz was talking casually with this Journo, and perhaps came out with some comments (that in the RAF are used daily as "banter" between personnel) that perhaps she now wishes she had not said. (The article would have been no worse if they had not been published)
I know in this PC world that we live in, even now I will give as good as I get, "banter" is banter, it has gone on between groundcrew and aircrew since the first pilot flew in the military. It goes on between Movers and Teccies, Aircrew and Movers, Teccies and Admin and Aircrew and everyone. Banter is Banter, the military thrive on it, however many (non) military people can not tolerate the level of banter we sometimes use. Sure, everyone must at some stage admit to making a comment that belittles someone else compared to them, we are human, we like to think we are sometimes better than someone else, it can (sometimes) be reffered to as personal pride (perhaps) in your own mind.
I think some of the comments she made should have been confined to the bar, and not made to the general populus.
My partner (a civvie) read the article and said "Who does she think she is, what a childish comment to make, does she think she is the only one who is important in the RAF".
Childish comment............I think that may sum this up, and the constant bickering between some of the PPRuNer's on this thread........the same.
Come on guys, keep the morale up by banter at work, keep it at work though. or let's start a banter thread where we can just be childish ourselves, (oh, we have) banter however is only banter when you know the other person(s), if you don't then it suddenly becomes "slagging".
Just a thought mind.
Disclaimer
Whilst these are my views they may not neccessarily mirror those of other members of this site.
Last edited by 1000CC'soffun; 16th Feb 2007 at 10:33. Reason: Spelling.....again....sorry!
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I am sooooooooo glad the Royal Marines Commandos are still a male only organisation! 
Especially when I remember the female Army Capt completing the All Arms Commando Course, but never actually serving with 3 Cdo Bde RM after all the fuss.
(However, I did marry a WRAF Flt Lt Admin Sec, and served in the RAF for 13 years!)
ERB
Especially when I remember the female Army Capt completing the All Arms Commando Course, but never actually serving with 3 Cdo Bde RM after all the fuss.
(However, I did marry a WRAF Flt Lt Admin Sec, and served in the RAF for 13 years!)
ERB
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Smileys
Gainsey, I think you may be correct about the " ". Read on!
I expect by now, if people have been bothered to read this far on this thread then they must be fed up about it all anyway.
Anyway, ultimately NO STICK, NO VOTE is the only way, so everyone who isn't a pilot need not apply (i.e blunty pen droppers) and shouldn't be posting on this site anyway.
Incoming.......................
". Read on!I expect by now, if people have been bothered to read this far on this thread then they must be fed up about it all anyway.
Anyway, ultimately NO STICK, NO VOTE is the only way, so everyone who isn't a pilot need not apply (i.e blunty pen droppers) and shouldn't be posting on this site anyway.
Incoming.......................
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A Civilian Perspective
Dear Posters,
Although in the business, albeit the less scary civilian side, I am a regular reader of Prune and happened upon the military forum and this thread while awaiting a light lunch from Mrs Oldflyboy. I must say, though I respect that lots of you seem to have become very agitated about the perception that the Service may have been belittled by the Sunday Times article, you do seem to be getting your collective knickers in a twist about it!
Mrs OFB and I read the article with some interest, and our only comments were of the " Thank the Lord we dont have to do that, sounds like a horrific way to earn a living and are we not lucky that there are lots of young Men and Women who are prepared to do it" variety. Since reading various rants here I have run the article by several guys and girls I fly with, and all are of the same opinion that in fact it shows all those who serve in a good light.
Perhaps when you are in it, any implied criticism of your colleagues touches nerves, especially in a theatre of war, but I can assure all who may bother to read this that us civilians thought the article interesting, informative and OUR impression of all of you was made more positive as a result of it.
Aplogies to anyone who thinks a civilian should not infringe your specific forum, but my late Uncle Tony Moyes was a Wing Commander who flew Lancasters in WW2, so perhaps that family history may allow inclusion!
God Bless all who Fly and those who support them in these difficult times.
Oldflyboy.
Although in the business, albeit the less scary civilian side, I am a regular reader of Prune and happened upon the military forum and this thread while awaiting a light lunch from Mrs Oldflyboy. I must say, though I respect that lots of you seem to have become very agitated about the perception that the Service may have been belittled by the Sunday Times article, you do seem to be getting your collective knickers in a twist about it!
Mrs OFB and I read the article with some interest, and our only comments were of the " Thank the Lord we dont have to do that, sounds like a horrific way to earn a living and are we not lucky that there are lots of young Men and Women who are prepared to do it" variety. Since reading various rants here I have run the article by several guys and girls I fly with, and all are of the same opinion that in fact it shows all those who serve in a good light.
Perhaps when you are in it, any implied criticism of your colleagues touches nerves, especially in a theatre of war, but I can assure all who may bother to read this that us civilians thought the article interesting, informative and OUR impression of all of you was made more positive as a result of it.
Aplogies to anyone who thinks a civilian should not infringe your specific forum, but my late Uncle Tony Moyes was a Wing Commander who flew Lancasters in WW2, so perhaps that family history may allow inclusion!
God Bless all who Fly and those who support them in these difficult times.
Oldflyboy.
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OldFlyBoy,
As one very mature aviator to another, I was pleased to read you balanced comments. I have refrained from further posting on here due to the somewhat imature and unwarranted comments by certain people, who know who they are.
As an 'unbiased' reader, I was pleased that you felt it showed the service in a good light, despite the fact that the comments have clearly upset some people, understandably in my opinion. Nevertheless, if the publics image hasn't been tarnished, then I would take this opportunity to ask the likes of SFFP, TSM, Clockwork Mouse and BB to agree to disagree on the matter, and put it to bed. You have all, and myself included, contributed to allowing the journolist to win here. I should think he is laughing like a drain!
SFFP, this is not meant to be a patronising statement, so please don't come back with any more rudeness to me about it. It is a humble bit of advice from someone who is a bit (probably quite a bit) older, wiser and more mature than you to call a halt to it. That goes for you all. Endex I feel.
I would join the oldflyboy is wishing all our forces, wherever they are serving at this very difficult of times, every success and all good wishes. Be assured that, irrespective of yoour rank, position or trade, you are all held in the highest esteem by the likes of oldflyboy and myself.
Yours Aye
The Winco
As one very mature aviator to another, I was pleased to read you balanced comments. I have refrained from further posting on here due to the somewhat imature and unwarranted comments by certain people, who know who they are.
As an 'unbiased' reader, I was pleased that you felt it showed the service in a good light, despite the fact that the comments have clearly upset some people, understandably in my opinion. Nevertheless, if the publics image hasn't been tarnished, then I would take this opportunity to ask the likes of SFFP, TSM, Clockwork Mouse and BB to agree to disagree on the matter, and put it to bed. You have all, and myself included, contributed to allowing the journolist to win here. I should think he is laughing like a drain!
SFFP, this is not meant to be a patronising statement, so please don't come back with any more rudeness to me about it. It is a humble bit of advice from someone who is a bit (probably quite a bit) older, wiser and more mature than you to call a halt to it. That goes for you all. Endex I feel.
I would join the oldflyboy is wishing all our forces, wherever they are serving at this very difficult of times, every success and all good wishes. Be assured that, irrespective of yoour rank, position or trade, you are all held in the highest esteem by the likes of oldflyboy and myself.
Yours Aye
The Winco
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Winco,
I've decided to join you and the oldflyboy chappie. Thanks for putting us all straight, and apologies if I've caused any offence!
Kind regards to all, have a good weekend
TSM
I've decided to join you and the oldflyboy chappie. Thanks for putting us all straight, and apologies if I've caused any offence!
Kind regards to all, have a good weekend
TSM
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Knowing Caz since we started our A levels I am offended by some of the comments made in this forum. Most of the comments in the published article were made by her in a tongue in cheek way but as usual it has been taken out of context by the reporter. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves speaking about her in such a way. I know her to be a thoughtful and very considerate person.
When not flying she teaches adults with learning difficulties and actively makes a difference to her local community. Not at all a bimbo RETDPI!
When not flying she teaches adults with learning difficulties and actively makes a difference to her local community. Not at all a bimbo RETDPI!
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When I was at Cranwell, one of my female colleagues consistently faked injury to avoid a bit of walking in the rain, and on one occasion I came back to my basha to find that she had occupied it due to hers having fallen down, it is my regret that I was a naive young lad and turfed her out in to the rain so I could get some rest, rather than notice that a little cuddle may have made her (and maybe me) feel better
A few years later, I bumped in to her again, she was a successful and accomplished controller....
Everyone has more than one side, its not all black and white. Horses for courses and all that. Even Guy Gibson was referred to as "the boy emperor" by his squadron and eventually sent on a bonds tour of the US to avoid him sleeping with everyone else's wife.
Nobodys perfect.
A few years later, I bumped in to her again, she was a successful and accomplished controller....
Everyone has more than one side, its not all black and white. Horses for courses and all that. Even Guy Gibson was referred to as "the boy emperor" by his squadron and eventually sent on a bonds tour of the US to avoid him sleeping with everyone else's wife.
Nobodys perfect.
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Knowing Caz since we started our A levels I am offended by some of the comments made in this forum. Most of the comments in the published article were made by her in a tongue in cheek way but as usual it has been taken out of context by the reporter. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves speaking about her in such a way. I know her to be a thoughtful and very considerate person.
When not flying she teaches adults with learning difficulties and actively makes a difference to her local community.
When not flying she teaches adults with learning difficulties and actively makes a difference to her local community.
..........
Sorry if my comment is out of place, but I can't but agree with the apologists. It's about the level of discourse you'd expect from someone of that seniority. I shoot and edit video for a living; believe me, if the journalist had been malicious, it could have come off a lot worse.
Completely non noteworthy; perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see what all the fuss is about.
It's a bit like a cameraman making jokes about his sound recordist - "He just follows me around...". And we do that all the time.
Try to avoid it getting into print though.
Phil
Completely non noteworthy; perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see what all the fuss is about.
It's a bit like a cameraman making jokes about his sound recordist - "He just follows me around...". And we do that all the time.
Try to avoid it getting into print though.
Phil
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The point is this. That on a "one to one level" as it were the remark might well be taken tongue in cheek.
However when aired to the public it gives the impression of devaluing everbody elses contribution. To someone not in those professions it may seem trivial but ask yourself how those ladies she shared a tent with may have felt to see such remarks in black and white.
Additionally never fit for purpose has made a great issue of knowing the person in question. Has he asked her whether she made those remarks however meant? also whether she was coerced into the interview? If she gave the interview freely then she has to accept some of the blame. If she were coerced into the interview (as can happen) then she has my sympathy.
However when aired to the public it gives the impression of devaluing everbody elses contribution. To someone not in those professions it may seem trivial but ask yourself how those ladies she shared a tent with may have felt to see such remarks in black and white.
Additionally never fit for purpose has made a great issue of knowing the person in question. Has he asked her whether she made those remarks however meant? also whether she was coerced into the interview? If she gave the interview freely then she has to accept some of the blame. If she were coerced into the interview (as can happen) then she has my sympathy.
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I can't help it ....
Even tho I said I wouldn't comment further, I have one question.
Having read the Times Article, I can't help but think that it is too coherent to be uttered in an interview with a journalist.
It almost looks as though it was written by her as a funny piece and handed to the journalist in question, sort of a "Caz, I want you to write a short piece, entitled 'A Day in the Life ...' and hand it to Mr Newspaperman for publication".
I wonder what other people think. I just can't imagine (humourless as I am) responding to each of the journos Qs in such a fashion. I knits together too well to be just 'off the cuff'.
Does anyone know the truth of this? Interview or Written submission?
Having read the Times Article, I can't help but think that it is too coherent to be uttered in an interview with a journalist.
It almost looks as though it was written by her as a funny piece and handed to the journalist in question, sort of a "Caz, I want you to write a short piece, entitled 'A Day in the Life ...' and hand it to Mr Newspaperman for publication".
I wonder what other people think. I just can't imagine (humourless as I am) responding to each of the journos Qs in such a fashion. I knits together too well to be just 'off the cuff'.
Does anyone know the truth of this? Interview or Written submission?