Save The Red Arrows - Sign the Petition
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Save The Red Arrows - Sign the Petition
SAVE THE RED ARROWS
The Red Arrows aerobatic squadron of the Royal Air Force brings huge pride and international prestige to the UK, but the Treasury bean-counters in our beloved Government want to axe the Reds to save a couple of shillings.
The personnel, pilots and aircraft of the squadron are all capable of deployment elsewhere in the RAF, so the money really saved would be peanuts.
Cynics might observe that the move is a covert campaign to expunge from the public mind a potent and highly visible symbol of the very best of the Royal Air Force as an independent Air Arm of a United Kingdom giving up its identity to Europe...
10 Downing Street website has an online petition (which is seldom mentioned to the public in the hope that it will be overlooked).
Please sign it. Don't let the b*stards get away with this.
Mods, any chance that this can have "sticky status" for a while?
The Red Arrows aerobatic squadron of the Royal Air Force brings huge pride and international prestige to the UK, but the Treasury bean-counters in our beloved Government want to axe the Reds to save a couple of shillings.
The personnel, pilots and aircraft of the squadron are all capable of deployment elsewhere in the RAF, so the money really saved would be peanuts.
Cynics might observe that the move is a covert campaign to expunge from the public mind a potent and highly visible symbol of the very best of the Royal Air Force as an independent Air Arm of a United Kingdom giving up its identity to Europe...
10 Downing Street website has an online petition (which is seldom mentioned to the public in the hope that it will be overlooked).
Please sign it. Don't let the b*stards get away with this.
Mods, any chance that this can have "sticky status" for a while?
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Had a look on the No 10 website for "further information" in relation to this particular petition :
Looks like a pretty good petion to sign for anyone who deeply abhors the steep decline the country has suffered under the present "New Labour" terror and who remembers a time of collective and justified pride in the nation.
Following admission by the MoD that funding for the Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team - The Red Arrows - is to be reviewed under the latest Defence spending review, we, the British Public implore the Prime Minister to maintain funding to one of this country's most visible and recognisable symbols.
The Team stands as an internationally recognised symbol of the high standards and fine traditions of the British Military and in a time when this country has fewer things to be proud of, should be permitted to publicise the Armed Forces of this nation.
The Team stands as an internationally recognised symbol of the high standards and fine traditions of the British Military and in a time when this country has fewer things to be proud of, should be permitted to publicise the Armed Forces of this nation.
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Thank you HC. I have now signed up.
Actually don't believe the Reds are in real danger. Their disbandment is regularly put into the estimates as an alternative assumption, but that means nothing really. The savings would be negligeable and the negative fall-out collossal so there is no way they will be taken. That is until their Hawks need replaceing. Then there will be a real punch-up.
Actually don't believe the Reds are in real danger. Their disbandment is regularly put into the estimates as an alternative assumption, but that means nothing really. The savings would be negligeable and the negative fall-out collossal so there is no way they will be taken. That is until their Hawks need replaceing. Then there will be a real punch-up.
If scrapping the Red Arrows would ensure that some poor squaddie would get some extra equipment it would get my vote. As for the statement that nothing would be saved by scrapping them, how about the amount of fuel consumed punching holes in the sky, engineers who could be used on a squadron short of manpower and the aircraft and spares used where they would have some purpose.
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haltonapp
I think that most people would like the “Dear Leader”, Tony, to honour his recent words in respect of operations in Afghanistan and, we hope, in respect of provision for all the Armed Services’ commitments, and ensure that every “poor squaddie would get some extra equipment”.
Unfortunately, he’s beholden to Iron Chancellor Brown (on account of the fact he didn’t have the guts to go through a leadership contest in the mid ‘90’s and relied on the cosy Granita Agreement with Gordon to see him through). As a presumed graduate of a fine Service training institution, as implied by your title, I know that you will realized that we have a Chancellor whose track record indicates, at best, antipathy towards the Armed Services and, furthermore, a willingness to seize any opportunity to “salami slice” funding to any Arm of the Services. Hence, any “savings” would not head towards the “poor squaddie” but would route direct to the Treasury coffers (to be thence poured down the financial black holes of Gordon’s favoured “voting fodder” staffed Departments).
Meanwhile, the RAF has to continue attracting recruits, maintain an independent presence with a wind blowing in a “service amalgamation” direction and attempt continuation of a fine tradition of demonstrable Service, National and International excellence, for which we will all be the poorer when another wonderful icon has tragically and willfully been obliterated.
Finally, I do believe that, as either current or ex-service personnel, we are all on the same side here. Whatever the exigencies of present-day service or the recent memories of arduous and dangerous times, the distaste for modern day corrupt and incompetent politicians or the political distancing which we may individually feel towards the Iraq adventure, we all, at one time, felt pride and affection for our particular Service. A vote in this petition is a demonstration to ourselves, as much as to our worthless politicians, that we believe in something intrinsically superb and representative of a great nation, even if they are too stupid to believe in it themselves.
I think that most people would like the “Dear Leader”, Tony, to honour his recent words in respect of operations in Afghanistan and, we hope, in respect of provision for all the Armed Services’ commitments, and ensure that every “poor squaddie would get some extra equipment”.
Unfortunately, he’s beholden to Iron Chancellor Brown (on account of the fact he didn’t have the guts to go through a leadership contest in the mid ‘90’s and relied on the cosy Granita Agreement with Gordon to see him through). As a presumed graduate of a fine Service training institution, as implied by your title, I know that you will realized that we have a Chancellor whose track record indicates, at best, antipathy towards the Armed Services and, furthermore, a willingness to seize any opportunity to “salami slice” funding to any Arm of the Services. Hence, any “savings” would not head towards the “poor squaddie” but would route direct to the Treasury coffers (to be thence poured down the financial black holes of Gordon’s favoured “voting fodder” staffed Departments).
Meanwhile, the RAF has to continue attracting recruits, maintain an independent presence with a wind blowing in a “service amalgamation” direction and attempt continuation of a fine tradition of demonstrable Service, National and International excellence, for which we will all be the poorer when another wonderful icon has tragically and willfully been obliterated.
Finally, I do believe that, as either current or ex-service personnel, we are all on the same side here. Whatever the exigencies of present-day service or the recent memories of arduous and dangerous times, the distaste for modern day corrupt and incompetent politicians or the political distancing which we may individually feel towards the Iraq adventure, we all, at one time, felt pride and affection for our particular Service. A vote in this petition is a demonstration to ourselves, as much as to our worthless politicians, that we believe in something intrinsically superb and representative of a great nation, even if they are too stupid to believe in it themselves.
Last edited by highcirrus; 12th Feb 2007 at 12:29.
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Do you want an air force or an aerobatics team? because there hasn't been sufficient funding for both for a number of years now.
I have to agree with haltonapp and I won't be signing.
Accepting the reduced level of display, the only circumstances under which I would support the saving of the RAFAT would be if the jets came off the line at Valley and the pilots were all QFIs.
The Yellow Helicopters generate more positive PR than the Red Arrows and they do something usefull at the same time.
I have to agree with haltonapp and I won't be signing.
Accepting the reduced level of display, the only circumstances under which I would support the saving of the RAFAT would be if the jets came off the line at Valley and the pilots were all QFIs.
The Yellow Helicopters generate more positive PR than the Red Arrows and they do something usefull at the same time.
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Professional Student
OK, it’s been on before, but a bit of a re-run won’t do any hard will it? Might even get a few more votes for what many would think is a very worthy cause.
Incidentally, Max Contigency, you say, “Do you want an air force or an aerobatics team?”. Maybe you could indicate what proportion of the total flying hours task and budget allocation the Reds take up, compared with the rest of the Air Force? Could be the answer might indicate your question is a red herring. Similarly, “there hasn't been sufficient funding (for both)" seems to lend weight to highcirrus’ posting above.
OK, it’s been on before, but a bit of a re-run won’t do any hard will it? Might even get a few more votes for what many would think is a very worthy cause.
Incidentally, Max Contigency, you say, “Do you want an air force or an aerobatics team?”. Maybe you could indicate what proportion of the total flying hours task and budget allocation the Reds take up, compared with the rest of the Air Force? Could be the answer might indicate your question is a red herring. Similarly, “there hasn't been sufficient funding (for both)" seems to lend weight to highcirrus’ posting above.
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The Yellow Helicopters generate more positive PR than the Red Arrows and they do something usefull at the same time.
If we can't afford to keep something worthwhile like that why should we keep
a display team???
Definitely a 'No' vote
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Well, I must admit I am astounded!
Tell you what, I have another proposal. Let's keep the Red Arrows and bin the rest of the Air Force, because if you lot and those drivelling idiots on the J vs K thread are representative of it, then it is a total waste of everything and is self-destructing anyway.
Give me strength!
Tell you what, I have another proposal. Let's keep the Red Arrows and bin the rest of the Air Force, because if you lot and those drivelling idiots on the J vs K thread are representative of it, then it is a total waste of everything and is self-destructing anyway.
Give me strength!
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Saving the Glory boys is indeed commendable, but without a
"I DON'T WANT TO SAVE THE REDS"
petitition, our slimy government will get away with it.
ie. Suppose 1 million people sign the Downing St site's petition to save the Reds ... TB, in justification of his decision to scrap them, will point out that approx 59 million either don't want them or couldn't be @rsed to log on. He may even cut the 59m down, taking into a/c kids and non-internet able people and still claim that only 1 in 20 of the UK public want to keep the Reds.
AL1 to the above ref to TB's decision .... obviously he'll make someone else make the decision, after a one-sided, pre-determined inquiry led by a Red Arrows skeptic which recommends ditching them.
One-sided petitions are fine, but they don't mean a thing to this lot (look at the Countryside Alliance!). Also take a look at his response to the 'Save Northolt's Heritage' response - basically, "We agree with you, the British People, about historical preservation, so we've made the RAF choose which two bits of the station they want to keep and which they would like us to bulldoze."
ps. My reference to the Countryside Alliance is illustrative only - I'm with the foxes on that issue!!
"I DON'T WANT TO SAVE THE REDS"
petitition, our slimy government will get away with it.
ie. Suppose 1 million people sign the Downing St site's petition to save the Reds ... TB, in justification of his decision to scrap them, will point out that approx 59 million either don't want them or couldn't be @rsed to log on. He may even cut the 59m down, taking into a/c kids and non-internet able people and still claim that only 1 in 20 of the UK public want to keep the Reds.
AL1 to the above ref to TB's decision .... obviously he'll make someone else make the decision, after a one-sided, pre-determined inquiry led by a Red Arrows skeptic which recommends ditching them.
One-sided petitions are fine, but they don't mean a thing to this lot (look at the Countryside Alliance!). Also take a look at his response to the 'Save Northolt's Heritage' response - basically, "We agree with you, the British People, about historical preservation, so we've made the RAF choose which two bits of the station they want to keep and which they would like us to bulldoze."
ps. My reference to the Countryside Alliance is illustrative only - I'm with the foxes on that issue!!
Last edited by threepointonefour; 12th Feb 2007 at 20:19. Reason: I added bold to the headline for artistic impression
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how about the amount of fuel consumed punching holes in the sky
If only he could comprehend how much gets used by some of the other fleets, ...... he'd be aircrew !!
3 mins of Tornado 'burner = a whole Reds sortie!!
Just to fly the flag for a mo', UK business generated by the Red Arrows displays worldwide probably far exceeds the cost of fuel, maybe even of running the unit, but these figures are I'm sure, unavailable.
And as a 2nd stab at the RAFAT cash cow, the Reds' prescence at UK air shows generates a massive income for many UK traders and organisers (who typically try to put them on last so they can milk the "British People" for as much as poss).
engineers who could be used on a squadron short of manpower
aircraft and spares used
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What Ever happened to Loyalty
All you muppets who say no to the Reds..
please hand in your PVr and go join the Army. We should be asking for a increase in the budget, not cuts!! You joined the RAF, have some loyalty. HaltonApp and ProStudent, please can I know your respective trades, so I start a petition to have your jobs removed to Quote' Get Bullets and Body Armour' to the squaddies. Yes, I may have bitten, but my God GET ON SIDE
please hand in your PVr and go join the Army. We should be asking for a increase in the budget, not cuts!! You joined the RAF, have some loyalty. HaltonApp and ProStudent, please can I know your respective trades, so I start a petition to have your jobs removed to Quote' Get Bullets and Body Armour' to the squaddies. Yes, I may have bitten, but my God GET ON SIDE
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I honestly don't think its a question of misguided loyalty.
Yes we should be asking for a (MASSIVE) increase in the budget, but do you honestly think TB and the rest of the incompetents would dare allow it, there are far more deserving causes, but that's for another debate!
As it seems certain, like night follows day, that we will again be seeing both budget cuts and rising costs, I feel that we have to do the best with what little we have.
If that means the end of the red PR machine (and I am a fan of them) Then so be it. We MUST be realistic and spend where it is needed most, and that, in these troubled times is supporting the front line troops of allthree services.
Yes we should be asking for a (MASSIVE) increase in the budget, but do you honestly think TB and the rest of the incompetents would dare allow it, there are far more deserving causes, but that's for another debate!
As it seems certain, like night follows day, that we will again be seeing both budget cuts and rising costs, I feel that we have to do the best with what little we have.
If that means the end of the red PR machine (and I am a fan of them) Then so be it. We MUST be realistic and spend where it is needed most, and that, in these troubled times is supporting the front line troops of allthree services.
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We should be asking for a increase in the budget, not cuts!!
Heres the plan:
I'll pop up to Main Buiding and explain that the British taxpayer will just have to dig a little deeper. If that doesnt work, then I'll just ask for some money to be diverted away from Education, Health or other such nonsense, after all it would be going into Defence..... Oh no hold on aerobatics aren't really defence are they. Oh damn, just when the plan was really coming together.
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Roguedent
Hang on a mo! I'm on the Sparrows' side. I just didn't see he point in having 2 petitions running when efforts can be focussed on just1 and have more names on that.
As has been well discussed on the other thread, the Reds cost around £5-6M a year, which is really a drop in the ocean for HM Gov plc. It wouldn't even pay for some black tape around some civil servants' telephones or more than a few chairs or desks in Main Building. And if they were chopped, would that £5-6M really be spent on boots and bullets and guns for our front line troops? Really? If you think the answer is "yes", then you're more naive than I thought you were.
There are fewer and fewer symbols that project the armed forces into the public eye these days (at least in a positive sense). Whilst guys are showing utmost bravery on the ground, that doesn't recruit people. The Reds, the Blue Eagles and the RN Historic Flight (they're still up and running aren't they?) don't just recruit pilots. They get people through the doors of the AFCO, and in this day and age when joining the Forces seems anathema to young people, that can only be a good thing.
£5-6M is small fry on the big scheme of things and probably more successful than "You don't have to fly to be in the RAF" and "My job's more important than yours, stick monkey" (sorry Navy).
If it was a plain choice between the Red Arrows and guns and bullets, then I would be signing up to the "Bin the Red Arrows" petition faster than you could say "Diamond Nine". But it's not. Gordon Brown will take the money and give it to some lesbian extremists "asylum seeker" to buy a house and ship the rest of their families over.
So, Red Arrows or more asylum seekers? The choice is yours.
Hang on a mo! I'm on the Sparrows' side. I just didn't see he point in having 2 petitions running when efforts can be focussed on just1 and have more names on that.
As has been well discussed on the other thread, the Reds cost around £5-6M a year, which is really a drop in the ocean for HM Gov plc. It wouldn't even pay for some black tape around some civil servants' telephones or more than a few chairs or desks in Main Building. And if they were chopped, would that £5-6M really be spent on boots and bullets and guns for our front line troops? Really? If you think the answer is "yes", then you're more naive than I thought you were.
There are fewer and fewer symbols that project the armed forces into the public eye these days (at least in a positive sense). Whilst guys are showing utmost bravery on the ground, that doesn't recruit people. The Reds, the Blue Eagles and the RN Historic Flight (they're still up and running aren't they?) don't just recruit pilots. They get people through the doors of the AFCO, and in this day and age when joining the Forces seems anathema to young people, that can only be a good thing.
£5-6M is small fry on the big scheme of things and probably more successful than "You don't have to fly to be in the RAF" and "My job's more important than yours, stick monkey" (sorry Navy).
If it was a plain choice between the Red Arrows and guns and bullets, then I would be signing up to the "Bin the Red Arrows" petition faster than you could say "Diamond Nine". But it's not. Gordon Brown will take the money and give it to some lesbian extremists "asylum seeker" to buy a house and ship the rest of their families over.
So, Red Arrows or more asylum seekers? The choice is yours.
