WINGS AND CS95 - Please help!
Alternatively, if you are that desperate to look daft, just call it "Thursday Morning dress (ops)".
I'm sure you will get away with it as surely nobody in their right minds would bother or have the time to look up dress regs would they........LJ?????
I'm sure you will get away with it as surely nobody in their right minds would bother or have the time to look up dress regs would they........LJ?????
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Having looked into the Somali Blackhawk shootdown, I wouldn't be surprised if the fact that the captured US mate was a pilot may well have saved his bacon. If he was a grunt he would not be worth looking after after and would probably be handed to the angry mob with Mr Machete.
ck ead of the first, second and third order - your concern about uniform regs is unhealthy to a degree 
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I used to sit up at the pointy end but was always of the opinion that anybody could do that, and that the real brains and courage sat in the back.
If in doubt BANG OUT!
If in doubt BANG OUT!
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Having 'been there' on a certain black & silver squadron when we started the wearing of aircrew leather jackets, flouting the dress regs and being banned by the Stn Cdr at Valley while on MPC, I feel I must stand up for the rather rotund Leon Jabberwocky.
Surely the air officer's dress should be impeccable if they insist we all adhere to a core standard? God knows he has about 4 minions to sort this stuff out for him? I know nothing about 'jointery' (other than it is a made up word) and the dress regs therein, nor do I care.
Some years ago I was at a senior officers briefing on the introduction of the new WSO branch and brevet. He declared that the RAF would fall in line with the americans in re-naming our navigators as WSOs ... this was much more descriptive of the role and emminently sensible in his opinion. When a wag (pilot) at the back suggested that we should go the whole hog and give all aircrew 2 wings, with a differentiator in the middle, said senior officer (& Harrier pilot) just about imploded. So forgive my cynicism, but I think the only people who really give a toss are those in the middle, who can make a name for themselves one way or another.
As an aside, SD hats and CS95 DO NOT GO TOGETHER, whatever twisted officer viewpoint you may have - a chip bag is a much more discerning alternative, one where you neither look like a prat nor a grunt.
And as you know Leon, I could never begin to answer your question as I've never had any idea about things like that.
Interesting side debate ...
Does it matter what you're wearing after being shot down? Your aircraft lies smouldering some 1 nm away, you're in a flight suit and the helmet nearby is a suspiciously reasonable fit (squipper dependent!). I'm with Leon here - most grunts capturing you may do little more than rough you up for fear of damaging 'the goods' if they know you're aircrew, as they may get into trouble for lessening the ransom demand.
There is no answer to this - only that I really think it makes no difference whatsoever whether you wear wings on your CS95 or flight suit in an operational zone. The only comment could be that the white could stand out too much - in which case a return to the black on green would be fine.
Surely the air officer's dress should be impeccable if they insist we all adhere to a core standard? God knows he has about 4 minions to sort this stuff out for him? I know nothing about 'jointery' (other than it is a made up word) and the dress regs therein, nor do I care.
Some years ago I was at a senior officers briefing on the introduction of the new WSO branch and brevet. He declared that the RAF would fall in line with the americans in re-naming our navigators as WSOs ... this was much more descriptive of the role and emminently sensible in his opinion. When a wag (pilot) at the back suggested that we should go the whole hog and give all aircrew 2 wings, with a differentiator in the middle, said senior officer (& Harrier pilot) just about imploded. So forgive my cynicism, but I think the only people who really give a toss are those in the middle, who can make a name for themselves one way or another.
As an aside, SD hats and CS95 DO NOT GO TOGETHER, whatever twisted officer viewpoint you may have - a chip bag is a much more discerning alternative, one where you neither look like a prat nor a grunt.
And as you know Leon, I could never begin to answer your question as I've never had any idea about things like that.
Interesting side debate ...
Does it matter what you're wearing after being shot down? Your aircraft lies smouldering some 1 nm away, you're in a flight suit and the helmet nearby is a suspiciously reasonable fit (squipper dependent!). I'm with Leon here - most grunts capturing you may do little more than rough you up for fear of damaging 'the goods' if they know you're aircrew, as they may get into trouble for lessening the ransom demand.
There is no answer to this - only that I really think it makes no difference whatsoever whether you wear wings on your CS95 or flight suit in an operational zone. The only comment could be that the white could stand out too much - in which case a return to the black on green would be fine.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
All badges are fastened with velcro. Still gives the game away. One ex-Int O (Green Slime) was in Belize in Apr 1982, when some RAF types in growbags came in. They had no badges but patches.
As an expert Int O with a hobby of observing badges he knew they were 39 Sqn.
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Interesting side debate ...
Does it matter what you're wearing after being shot down? Your aircraft lies smouldering some 1 nm away, you're in a flight suit and the helmet nearby is a suspiciously reasonable fit (squipper dependent!). I'm with Leon here - most grunts capturing you may do little more than rough you up for fear of damaging 'the goods' if they know you're aircrew, as they may get into trouble for lessening the ransom demand.
There is no answer to this - only that I really think it makes no difference whatsoever whether you wear wings on your CS95 or flight suit in an operational zone. The only comment could be that the white could stand out too much - in which case a return to the black on green would be fine.
Does it matter what you're wearing after being shot down? Your aircraft lies smouldering some 1 nm away, you're in a flight suit and the helmet nearby is a suspiciously reasonable fit (squipper dependent!). I'm with Leon here - most grunts capturing you may do little more than rough you up for fear of damaging 'the goods' if they know you're aircrew, as they may get into trouble for lessening the ransom demand.
There is no answer to this - only that I really think it makes no difference whatsoever whether you wear wings on your CS95 or flight suit in an operational zone. The only comment could be that the white could stand out too much - in which case a return to the black on green would be fine.
It also matters in FOBs, where snipers able to pick out such details as badges can take one look and say to themselves "ooh - I can down an aircraft here without it even getting airborne, and save HMG a shed-load of flying pay in one go..." Which is in itself an argument for wearing berets in such areas.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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On the subject of sanitising before missions, I've always thought it a little excessive. There you are, standing with your hands up because your Walther has jammed, next a smoking wreck with the biggest fin in NATO, trying to say in Farsi that you're "not aircrew honest Abdullah!".
If you want to take the risk, if ever in the situation where you are captured, of giving your interrogators lots of things to 'talk' to you about - your job (brevet), squadron (badge), wife (photo), address (driving licence), etc - then that is up to you.
MadMark!!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
We used to p*ss the stn cdr off big time. The old Mk 4 flying suit (temperate climate) was a shiny slate grey/dark blue rather than the (tropical) lighter blue one which soon became grubby.
Mr Staish decreed that all flying suits were to be badged, one light blue was for airshows etc and the dark slate grey one was for VIP visits. To a man we all refused and reserved the grey/blue - no badges - for QRA.
Flying Clothing used to write big identifying marks on the label - which we then cut out
. When they painted the outside of our bone domes with COTnn we went ballistic and made them remove all the markings.
OK, a big smoking hole in a Russian city and a bedraggled airman in a blue romper suit might have been a bit of a give away.
Mr Staish decreed that all flying suits were to be badged, one light blue was for airshows etc and the dark slate grey one was for VIP visits. To a man we all refused and reserved the grey/blue - no badges - for QRA.
Flying Clothing used to write big identifying marks on the label - which we then cut out
. When they painted the outside of our bone domes with COTnn we went ballistic and made them remove all the markings.OK, a big smoking hole in a Russian city and a bedraggled airman in a blue romper suit might have been a bit of a give away.
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The white wings you crabs wear look daft anyway! If you were any good you'd have a gold set! And we ony wear ours on our flying overalls and coffee mugs! We rely on professionalism to stand out while driving a desk and wearing a shirt and tie, rather than accessorising every bloody shirt and jumper!
The team works and all that! It's hard enough to combat the "all wafus are wankers mentality" in a fishheads' mob without rubbing their faces in it all the time!
You've changed Ratty, you've changed!
The team works and all that! It's hard enough to combat the "all wafus are wankers mentality" in a fishheads' mob without rubbing their faces in it all the time!
You've changed Ratty, you've changed!
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Who really cares what CAS wears! and as for people who wear chip hats and black leather flying jackets! don't get me started.
Why would anyone want to purchase a chip hat to wear when the RAF provides you with a perfectly good free beret.
Also I believe that the current rules for theatre mean that you don't have to completely sanitise before you go flying, name badges , sqn crests, brevets etc are all considered fine, the thinking behind this is that the type of people on the ground who may capture you post crash aren't interested in what your job is or what you might know about the aircraft or it's systems, they will just be extactic to have captured any coalition member to parade and use in the propaganda war.
Why would anyone want to purchase a chip hat to wear when the RAF provides you with a perfectly good free beret.
Also I believe that the current rules for theatre mean that you don't have to completely sanitise before you go flying, name badges , sqn crests, brevets etc are all considered fine, the thinking behind this is that the type of people on the ground who may capture you post crash aren't interested in what your job is or what you might know about the aircraft or it's systems, they will just be extactic to have captured any coalition member to parade and use in the propaganda war.
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Who really cares what CAS wears! and as for people who wear chip hats and black leather flying jackets! don't get me started.
Why would anyone want to purchase a chip hat to wear when the RAF provides you with a perfectly good free beret.
Also I believe that the current rules for theatre mean that you don't have to completely sanitise before you go flying, name badges , sqn crests, brevets etc are all considered fine, the thinking behind this is that the type of people on the ground who may capture you post crash aren't interested in what your job is or what you might know about the aircraft or it's systems, they will just be extactic to have captured any coalition member to parade and use in the propaganda war.
Why would anyone want to purchase a chip hat to wear when the RAF provides you with a perfectly good free beret.
Also I believe that the current rules for theatre mean that you don't have to completely sanitise before you go flying, name badges , sqn crests, brevets etc are all considered fine, the thinking behind this is that the type of people on the ground who may capture you post crash aren't interested in what your job is or what you might know about the aircraft or it's systems, they will just be extactic to have captured any coalition member to parade and use in the propaganda war.
Except this;
ps. There's something to be said for paying £25 and looking ok than paying nowt and looking stupid.
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If only you could get a guarantee that you would look ok in your £25 chip hat. Especially the ones who think they are making some kind of statement by having it tilted towards the left (i.e. wrong) ear. 
Almost always Navs I’ve found. Says it all.
Almost always Navs I’ve found. Says it all.
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May I refer the honourable gentleman to his previous question ...
Has anybody done the above City and Guilds? Airline Ops and dispatch. Please PM me if you have. TA
Methinks you'll be shunned by McDs and end up at Wimpy.
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If you want to look like a dogs dinner, then wear CS 95 (covered in various badges indicating your service, trade, command etc) finished off with an SD hat and flying boots. I can remember what my service and trade is, and would expect anyone else to work it out by the rank I wear and where I sit in my aircraft. As for berets - please don't start Beags off again - I seem to recall the forage cap had a nickname that was the vernacular for part of the female form, and suggested what one looked like when wearing it - I rest my case.