Would you recommend a career in the military
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I had a fabulous time but there again, it's all about timing - joined in the early 60's and stayed the course to enjoy the best the RAF had to offer - it's all gone now - oh dear! very sad, never mind!
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Don't do it!!! Having spent 9 years in the Army and transferring over to the RAF in 2001 it has got worse over the years. I'm putting pen to paper next March on return from the Falklands. Falklands I hear you cry....Yes that's right. 4 months down here after doing 2 in Afghanistan with a possible 2 more months next year.
Tell you what you can do with this job...shuv it up your
Better things to do with my life......
Tell you what you can do with this job...shuv it up your
Better things to do with my life......
Don't do it!!! Having spent 9 years in the Army and transferring over to the RAF in 2001 it has got worse over the years. I'm putting pen to paper next March on return from the Falklands. Falklands I hear you cry....Yes that's right. 4 months down here after doing 2 in Afghanistan with a possible 2 more months next year.
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But you quote timex as if his last couple were a blip, and that the next 9 will be ok. The truth is that the next 9 will be exactly like the last 2. Only worse.
And the quote was tongue in cheek....
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Would you recommend 'todays' RAF?
Hello again all,
I was hoping if I could ask your opinions on whether or not the RAF of today is still worth joining. As current or ex service-folk I figured it was better to hear it from the horses mouth rather than the glossies and the guys at the AFCO.
The RAF is something i've always wanted to do, a Pilot in particular. Mum and Dad were both in the RAF, grandparents RAF, numerous family friends, god-parents and the like... Some still in but most out by now.
I'm a 20 year old who has just left University part way through the second year of a BEng Aero course. Difficult to explain and I know it doesn't look too good on me to have dropped out (although I prefer 'withdrawn'!) without completing.
Unfortunately I just wasn't enjoying the course and if i'm honest - and it's not nice to admit - my family were struggling to pay to have me there. I came home at Christmas and was just so unhappy at the thought of having to go back I decided not to return.
As it stands i've been working full time since then trying to decide what to do. The RAF was almost certainly my choice after Uni, but my degree put me off flying and the entire Aero industry. I know most will be thinking that I obviously didn't want it badly enough and wouldn't have made the cut had I gone through with it anyway, but i'm thinking i'd still like to go for a Commission, possibly Pilot/Aircrew of some sort but then perhaps something new and different.
My other option was to join the Police as i've been carrying out the duties of a Special Constable down where I was at Uni for a while. I know that coppers are mostly hated but I figured it's an enjoyable job, scope to move away and try lots of different areas of speciality etc.
Anyway, to the point...
I know that the RAF of today isn't the RAF that you joined. Less fun, less money, and more top-heavy than ever. My Dad has said the same, and that if I join now ten years down the line i'll be saying exactly the same.
But in reality, is a Commission in the RAF something you would recommend? Were it your child, is service life in this day and age a option you'd throw into the mix?
Be sure I have my tin hat on for the incoming, and prepared for the "if you have to ask then you don't want to do it badly enough" posts, but would appreciate some honest opinions.
Many thanks
Joe.
I was hoping if I could ask your opinions on whether or not the RAF of today is still worth joining. As current or ex service-folk I figured it was better to hear it from the horses mouth rather than the glossies and the guys at the AFCO.
The RAF is something i've always wanted to do, a Pilot in particular. Mum and Dad were both in the RAF, grandparents RAF, numerous family friends, god-parents and the like... Some still in but most out by now.
I'm a 20 year old who has just left University part way through the second year of a BEng Aero course. Difficult to explain and I know it doesn't look too good on me to have dropped out (although I prefer 'withdrawn'!) without completing.
Unfortunately I just wasn't enjoying the course and if i'm honest - and it's not nice to admit - my family were struggling to pay to have me there. I came home at Christmas and was just so unhappy at the thought of having to go back I decided not to return.
As it stands i've been working full time since then trying to decide what to do. The RAF was almost certainly my choice after Uni, but my degree put me off flying and the entire Aero industry. I know most will be thinking that I obviously didn't want it badly enough and wouldn't have made the cut had I gone through with it anyway, but i'm thinking i'd still like to go for a Commission, possibly Pilot/Aircrew of some sort but then perhaps something new and different.
My other option was to join the Police as i've been carrying out the duties of a Special Constable down where I was at Uni for a while. I know that coppers are mostly hated but I figured it's an enjoyable job, scope to move away and try lots of different areas of speciality etc.
Anyway, to the point...
I know that the RAF of today isn't the RAF that you joined. Less fun, less money, and more top-heavy than ever. My Dad has said the same, and that if I join now ten years down the line i'll be saying exactly the same.
But in reality, is a Commission in the RAF something you would recommend? Were it your child, is service life in this day and age a option you'd throw into the mix?
Be sure I have my tin hat on for the incoming, and prepared for the "if you have to ask then you don't want to do it badly enough" posts, but would appreciate some honest opinions.
Many thanks
Joe.
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Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
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When I joined in Jan 1980, people were saying the same things as they do nowadays. No money, poor leadership, bad government, blah blah. I have been out three years and I think that people are spending lots of time away, however, some elements always did that!! I would not have done as much time in if I had been on constant operations, but, and BIG but, I do not regret joining up at all. It is a life that you have to see to believe. Good friends, great experiences, ups and of course downs. Recommended?? Of course, 100%, do not listen to whinging old duffers like me and in 22 years time, you will be blah blah blah about how it was better in 2007......
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I would agree with jt.
However, and you knew it was coming because you made a reference to it, you will be competing with people who have a single minded UNQUENCHABLE BURNING DESIRE to do it.
I wouldn't be put off by little setbacks (believe me, when you look back they will seem little) like age and flunked degrees - getting in is (IMHO) more to do with drive and raw potential (oh, and luck).
Never give up,
Ray ;-)
However, and you knew it was coming because you made a reference to it, you will be competing with people who have a single minded UNQUENCHABLE BURNING DESIRE to do it.
I wouldn't be put off by little setbacks (believe me, when you look back they will seem little) like age and flunked degrees - getting in is (IMHO) more to do with drive and raw potential (oh, and luck).
Never give up,
Ray ;-)
I would agree with the above two replies - there are many features of service life which a lot of people might find disagreeable (the amount of time away, the lack of control over your destiny, and the constant moving around every three years or so being the most obvious), but if these things don't bother you, you'll enjoy service life. Of course, to some people, the three things I've mentioned are a positive thing, not a drawback!
As for the points Joe makes: there may be less fun to be had than in the 'old days' but that doesn't mean there's NO fun at all any more. Less money - do you mean for the individual, or the MOD as a whole? As aircrew, I feel very well remunerated for my efforts, but as far as I'm aware (and I may be wide of the mark here), people of most trades - certainly the engineers I've spoken to - are content with their wage too.
I've been in nigh on ten years, and I enjoy life very much (though I am in a cushy niche, I must admit), and have no desire to do anything else at the moment. I have enough hours to get a CPL/ATPL without difficulty, but I'd much rather stay in the RAF because the flying's much more fun than almost any civvy aviation, and the lifestyle to my liking too. This may well change depending on where I end up next...
As for withdrawing from uni - okay, it doesn't look great on the CV, but then I've heard of people with much more 'turbulent' experiences in education etc making it into the RAF to fly. Nothing is impossible (well, kind of)!
Good luck,
TOTD
As for the points Joe makes: there may be less fun to be had than in the 'old days' but that doesn't mean there's NO fun at all any more. Less money - do you mean for the individual, or the MOD as a whole? As aircrew, I feel very well remunerated for my efforts, but as far as I'm aware (and I may be wide of the mark here), people of most trades - certainly the engineers I've spoken to - are content with their wage too.
I've been in nigh on ten years, and I enjoy life very much (though I am in a cushy niche, I must admit), and have no desire to do anything else at the moment. I have enough hours to get a CPL/ATPL without difficulty, but I'd much rather stay in the RAF because the flying's much more fun than almost any civvy aviation, and the lifestyle to my liking too. This may well change depending on where I end up next...
As for withdrawing from uni - okay, it doesn't look great on the CV, but then I've heard of people with much more 'turbulent' experiences in education etc making it into the RAF to fly. Nothing is impossible (well, kind of)!
Good luck,
TOTD
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Save yourself
I will concede before I start that any views expressed are my opinion, based solely upon my experience.
The RAF these days will have you away from home much more often and for longer than even a few years ago. Unfortunately the destinations are pretty much hot sandy and less than desirable if you get the idea.
As for pay - not too bad to be honest, if it weren't for that I doubt as many would still be in the RAF in fact.
The lack of morale does to agree come from above, if many are honest they will allow that people are continually expected to do more with less and that the trend sees no reversal in the near future.
Obviously up to you, but there are many downsides to consider before you sign up, spend the time to find out what they are, ideally from a few different bases around the UK to get a real feel for the RAF as a whole. The glossy brochures do paint a nice picture, but then they would wouldn't they given that they are recruitment tools.
On balance I regret having joined, so now it's time to look for a better option........
Good luck.
The RAF these days will have you away from home much more often and for longer than even a few years ago. Unfortunately the destinations are pretty much hot sandy and less than desirable if you get the idea.
As for pay - not too bad to be honest, if it weren't for that I doubt as many would still be in the RAF in fact.
The lack of morale does to agree come from above, if many are honest they will allow that people are continually expected to do more with less and that the trend sees no reversal in the near future.
Obviously up to you, but there are many downsides to consider before you sign up, spend the time to find out what they are, ideally from a few different bases around the UK to get a real feel for the RAF as a whole. The glossy brochures do paint a nice picture, but then they would wouldn't they given that they are recruitment tools.
On balance I regret having joined, so now it's time to look for a better option........
Good luck.
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For life in the operational multi-engine and rotary RAF world the answer would be a categorical NO.
Accepting that is your own personal point of view but I think for the benefit of Joe you need to expand.
There are still plenty of people in both of those 'worlds' that are happy to continue with their careers.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I would contest the point about moving every 3 years. This may be true of several branches but it is less so for aircrew.
What bases are open to ME? Once AT you will probably remain AT, etc.
For FJ, once Harrier you would probably remain Harrier etc.
True there are moves induced by stations closing but that is not on the 3-year plot. The 3-year plot really kicks in once you reach sqn ldr and decide to climb the greasy pole - but again that is a whole different ball game.
Effectively the sqn shag stays put if he is hacking it.
To some extent whether you move house is up to you and depends on where you put down routes. On the other hand the younger people might look forward to moving every few years - I did. I then did 3 tours, 2 stations, in one house and 4 tours, 3 stations in another; one of those tours was a double and another extended.
For non-aircrew it seems that station life and a static location are not high on the shopping list. You can Admin in an HQ or Engineer at some agency of other and the work is then very much a job with a station tour just one of many career options.
For Ops Support the ATC and FC will have their little slots with either little incentive to move or no places to move to.
The 'escape' tour is often into the training system but the training system is also a fertile hunting ground for the non-formed unit OOA tours.
What bases are open to ME? Once AT you will probably remain AT, etc.
For FJ, once Harrier you would probably remain Harrier etc.
True there are moves induced by stations closing but that is not on the 3-year plot. The 3-year plot really kicks in once you reach sqn ldr and decide to climb the greasy pole - but again that is a whole different ball game.
Effectively the sqn shag stays put if he is hacking it.
To some extent whether you move house is up to you and depends on where you put down routes. On the other hand the younger people might look forward to moving every few years - I did. I then did 3 tours, 2 stations, in one house and 4 tours, 3 stations in another; one of those tours was a double and another extended.
For non-aircrew it seems that station life and a static location are not high on the shopping list. You can Admin in an HQ or Engineer at some agency of other and the work is then very much a job with a station tour just one of many career options.
For Ops Support the ATC and FC will have their little slots with either little incentive to move or no places to move to.
The 'escape' tour is often into the training system but the training system is also a fertile hunting ground for the non-formed unit OOA tours.
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If, having studied PPRuNe, you are still not put off, I suggest you go for it.
Shoot high and try for a commission as aircrew. You have nothing to lose and much to gain, even if you never actually get to be an aircraft captain. Enjoy the ride. Do not be put off by talk of underfunding, too many demands with too little equipment, too much hot, sandy spots etc. As a junior officer you will not be exposed to the frustrations and pressures which come with more seniority and responsibility. Do not see it as a lifetime commitment. You can decide that much later.
When you are no longer enjoying it, leave. You will be very employable whatever level you reach and will have matured, learned a lot about people and life, and will almost certainly have made life-long friends.
Shoot high and try for a commission as aircrew. You have nothing to lose and much to gain, even if you never actually get to be an aircraft captain. Enjoy the ride. Do not be put off by talk of underfunding, too many demands with too little equipment, too much hot, sandy spots etc. As a junior officer you will not be exposed to the frustrations and pressures which come with more seniority and responsibility. Do not see it as a lifetime commitment. You can decide that much later.
When you are no longer enjoying it, leave. You will be very employable whatever level you reach and will have matured, learned a lot about people and life, and will almost certainly have made life-long friends.
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My answer would depend very much when you asked me. 50 feet over Helmand watching the sun rise, then absolutely yes.
Clearing my emails, dealing with an ever growing currency list, leafing through the latest eye catching initiative, which yet again fails to address any of the problems.....then no.
CD's, History of the RAF books, new rank tabs....meaningless. Let's feel like we are valued and people will stay.
Clearing my emails, dealing with an ever growing currency list, leafing through the latest eye catching initiative, which yet again fails to address any of the problems.....then no.
CD's, History of the RAF books, new rank tabs....meaningless. Let's feel like we are valued and people will stay.
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Thanks for the first 10-or so replies... Surprisingly more positive than I was expecting if i'm honest...
I didn't mean less money in terms of pay, I meant it as funding in general. I was brought up in the RAF way of life, growing up in various lovely locations... Lincolnshire, Fife, Gutersloh etc, so know what to expect from the lifestyle.
It's just with so many people seeming to bail out, it puts questions over whether or not it actually is an enjoyable career?
Without a doubt it offers more than 99% of civilian employment. The teamwork, the opportunity to travel (not always to the best catered places in the world), and not having to worry about what to wear in the mornings. The pay while yes important to a degree isn't the be all and end all. If it was i'd have looked to fly buses.
Thanks again for the replies, any other opinions would be great.
Joe.
I didn't mean less money in terms of pay, I meant it as funding in general. I was brought up in the RAF way of life, growing up in various lovely locations... Lincolnshire, Fife, Gutersloh etc, so know what to expect from the lifestyle.
It's just with so many people seeming to bail out, it puts questions over whether or not it actually is an enjoyable career?
Without a doubt it offers more than 99% of civilian employment. The teamwork, the opportunity to travel (not always to the best catered places in the world), and not having to worry about what to wear in the mornings. The pay while yes important to a degree isn't the be all and end all. If it was i'd have looked to fly buses.
Thanks again for the replies, any other opinions would be great.
Joe.