Would you recommend a career in the military
Just a brief endorsement of Rob's Dad's post. I left (PVR'd) after 13years, mainly because having managed to subvert the system and stay flying, albeit via two cancelled ground tours, I realised that the ice would not support a third foray. It was then that the penny dropped, that flying was my first love rather than the Air Force (that's going to get me into a spot of bother with Mrs C!). But I also didn't want to hang around filling up the Mess Complaints Book with tirades against thoughtless young officers. The RAF is essentially a young person's world, run by older persons, which is less fun. My advice, go for it, have your fun and experience a fulfilling though increasingly dangerous life, then leave and start a second career. If however you decide that you want to stay on at that point, it will be a positive choice rather than one driven by inertia. Would I change what I did if given the chance? No way, both joining and leaving were the best decisions I ever made (oh, oh, I see more trouble bearing down!).
Good luck, Chug
Good luck, Chug
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i am in the same position as you , looking to join up after two years of a computing degree that was boring and i hated it , i am not looking at pilot becuase i don't have the high school quals , but communications and IT techie.
anyway i would say go for it , i am currently working full time in a job and most of the stuff i have heard from people in the RAF i have heard from people i have worked with in civvi street, complaining that it aint what it used to be, pay aint great and the people at the top don't care about the people at the bottom.
what i can say is that if you get in then you will have all this just like in civvi street but at the end of that you will be a pilot and something mutch better then most civvi street jobs
anyway i would say go for it , i am currently working full time in a job and most of the stuff i have heard from people in the RAF i have heard from people i have worked with in civvi street, complaining that it aint what it used to be, pay aint great and the people at the top don't care about the people at the bottom.
what i can say is that if you get in then you will have all this just like in civvi street but at the end of that you will be a pilot and something mutch better then most civvi street jobs
Rob's Dad, I agree although my exasperation point came after 25 years, I missed most of one daughters growing up I got back to the family when she was a teenager (nightmare), the youngest I missed a big chunk of her early life. But the wife allways said I put the RAF first and the family second and I had to agree, my change came when they changed all the rules and became political but I still wanted to stay in to the bitter end but was not allowed.
Eul0gy, again agree for all those that think civvy street is better with higher wages, well my experience (again cannot speak for aircrew) is that I have had to live away from home and commuting every weekend for 41/2 years to get a decent wage (still no where near what my rank is paid in the RAF), people still complain about going away for courses, low pay bum management, the one thing that is missing from civvie life is what the services can bring to your life and that is excitement and a unique life experience.
Again this is from my experience prior to 1999, since I have just watched and listened.
Eul0gy, again agree for all those that think civvy street is better with higher wages, well my experience (again cannot speak for aircrew) is that I have had to live away from home and commuting every weekend for 41/2 years to get a decent wage (still no where near what my rank is paid in the RAF), people still complain about going away for courses, low pay bum management, the one thing that is missing from civvie life is what the services can bring to your life and that is excitement and a unique life experience.
Again this is from my experience prior to 1999, since I have just watched and listened.
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Peoples attitudes towards any form of employment change as their personal circumstances change. I for one have been in for 26 years and on the whole i have had a terrific time. many 'ups' a few 'downs'.
During my time I have had 3 children they are now at university or in 6th form.
Over the past few years i like my buddies have spent between 4 to 6 months a year in one sand pit or another, every year.
This puts a very big strain on family life, therefor my attitude has changed.
Now if you are prepared for this and as a young lad it might not be a factor for you , then do it and enjoy what the services has to offer.
any doubts i suggest you dont.
During my time I have had 3 children they are now at university or in 6th form.
Over the past few years i like my buddies have spent between 4 to 6 months a year in one sand pit or another, every year.
This puts a very big strain on family life, therefor my attitude has changed.
Now if you are prepared for this and as a young lad it might not be a factor for you , then do it and enjoy what the services has to offer.
any doubts i suggest you dont.
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Now I know this isn't gonna go down well but anyway ......
If you don't want to fly - don't join the RAF. Its what the RAF is good at. If you want a ground job, join the Army - its what they are good at.
(and I'm not aircrew !!!!)
If you don't want to fly - don't join the RAF. Its what the RAF is good at. If you want a ground job, join the Army - its what they are good at.
(and I'm not aircrew !!!!)
My first boss, who was a Spitfire pilot just as hostilities finished in WW2 told me on a weekly basis that it wasn't the Air Force he joined and bemoaned the fact.
I thought he was mad as it was great.
As I got older and the youngsters I was in charge of weren't even born when I joined, I was telling them that it wasn't the Air Force I joined and I couldn't wait to leave.
They, too, thought I was mad as they thought it was great.
I suspect it will ever be the same.
Glad I'm out though, it wasn't the Air Force I joined when it came time to go!!
Doc C
I thought he was mad as it was great.
As I got older and the youngsters I was in charge of weren't even born when I joined, I was telling them that it wasn't the Air Force I joined and I couldn't wait to leave.
They, too, thought I was mad as they thought it was great.
I suspect it will ever be the same.
Glad I'm out though, it wasn't the Air Force I joined when it came time to go!!
Doc C
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young and not yet disillusioned!
I have just joined the RAF, I graduated IOT last year and am currently doing pilot training. All i can say is so far (i appreciate my view may change in 10 years time) is that it's been everything i wanted it to be and more. Where else can you get time off for free or cheap adventurous training? the camaraderie, the banter, the support from mates and colleagues, the health care (not perfect but in many cases better than NHS) the responsibility in some jobs that would take a civvy years to be trusted with. Also, whilst you are young and have no children to worry about (i am assuming you dont!!) what have you got to lose?
I appreciate that i will be going to sandy war zones often (i am streamed ME and want to fly Hercs) and that in the future settling down with someone can be difficult if you re away frequently. But nowadays it's easier to leave than it once was and, if at the end of training, it isn't what you wanted or expected then you don't have to do it for the rest of your life.
I personally love it at the mo and am excited about my new career and am enjoying the life. I also don't plan on staying until i'm 55 as yet but for the next 12 years (short service commission) i am looking forward to the flying, operationally or not. When my 12 years is up i will be in my early 30s still which is plenty of time to do somethig else should i desire.
Hope this helps.
Jinx x
I appreciate that i will be going to sandy war zones often (i am streamed ME and want to fly Hercs) and that in the future settling down with someone can be difficult if you re away frequently. But nowadays it's easier to leave than it once was and, if at the end of training, it isn't what you wanted or expected then you don't have to do it for the rest of your life.
I personally love it at the mo and am excited about my new career and am enjoying the life. I also don't plan on staying until i'm 55 as yet but for the next 12 years (short service commission) i am looking forward to the flying, operationally or not. When my 12 years is up i will be in my early 30s still which is plenty of time to do somethig else should i desire.
Hope this helps.
Jinx x
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NO.
Six years ago I would have recommended joining to anyone. But not now. I notice that most of the people saying yes are trying to relive the good old days, but sadly there are no good days and not likely to be.
If you enjoy doing your own admin and very soon having to be a part time PTI aswell as 2 operational detachments a year, guard, orderly dog and all the other ****e jobs that the few of us that are left are being dumped with then please join.
Only 7 years to go
If I could afford to PVR i would.
If you enjoy doing your own admin and very soon having to be a part time PTI aswell as 2 operational detachments a year, guard, orderly dog and all the other ****e jobs that the few of us that are left are being dumped with then please join.
Only 7 years to go
If I could afford to PVR i would.
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I would recommend anyone try the military, but also add that it's not a life-long career anymore. Provided they join with their eyes open to the realities of going to sandy places regularly - as some of the youngsters I know do readily accept - they'll enjoy some unique opportunities, even in sh1tty places. It's all about expectations.
I'm a bit older now and getting fcuked around - often unnecessarily - has just drained my desire to stay. We've taken our eye off the ball over the years and now have far too many people getting in the way of our core product, either adding to the workload or distracting people from it.
But for someone young with no better ideas, there are far worse starts than 6-12yrs in the forces. Just keep a healthy eye on the door.
I'm a bit older now and getting fcuked around - often unnecessarily - has just drained my desire to stay. We've taken our eye off the ball over the years and now have far too many people getting in the way of our core product, either adding to the workload or distracting people from it.
But for someone young with no better ideas, there are far worse starts than 6-12yrs in the forces. Just keep a healthy eye on the door.
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Listen to Jinx611.
Far too many whingers complaining that 'its not the RAF that I joined etc etc'. Dont let the door slam on your way out guys.
Things have changed and will continue to change - it is a very different world with very different challenges to be faced.
I do speak with some experience - both as airman and commissioned - 26 years total so far. There have been low times but the highs far outweigh them - and continue to do so.
Please do not be put off, but listen to all advice and then make your decision.
Far too many whingers complaining that 'its not the RAF that I joined etc etc'. Dont let the door slam on your way out guys.
Things have changed and will continue to change - it is a very different world with very different challenges to be faced.
I do speak with some experience - both as airman and commissioned - 26 years total so far. There have been low times but the highs far outweigh them - and continue to do so.
Please do not be put off, but listen to all advice and then make your decision.
Yes I would.
I have just left after 27 years and I am delighted to be out. I have seen loads of change and I did not like most of it, especially in the last 5 or so years. The kids joining now though, accept it as it is and those that I have seen seem happy(ish) with their lot. No doubt, in 20 years time, they will be as bitter and twisted as the rest of us but, hey ho, whatever.
I have just left after 27 years and I am delighted to be out. I have seen loads of change and I did not like most of it, especially in the last 5 or so years. The kids joining now though, accept it as it is and those that I have seen seem happy(ish) with their lot. No doubt, in 20 years time, they will be as bitter and twisted as the rest of us but, hey ho, whatever.
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There appears to be a pattern forming.
Amazing how the Officers are the ones that think the RAF is worth joining these days.
Its comments and attitudes like "Dont let the door slam on your way out guys" that are causing so many groundies and us aircrew alike to leave.
Try talking to your guys now and then, and you might get the real picture.
Tell me again why we need 400 Group Captains?????
Amazing how the Officers are the ones that think the RAF is worth joining these days.
Its comments and attitudes like "Dont let the door slam on your way out guys" that are causing so many groundies and us aircrew alike to leave.
Try talking to your guys now and then, and you might get the real picture.
Tell me again why we need 400 Group Captains?????
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Originally Posted by BelixA
Tell me again why we need 400 Group Captains?????
Originally Posted by dallas
We've taken our eye off the ball over the years and now have far too many people getting in the way of our core product, either adding to the workload or distracting people from it.
I refer the gentleman to my previous post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallas
We've taken our eye off the ball over the years and now have far too many people getting in the way of our core product, either adding to the workload or distracting people from it.
So if there are to many people getting in the way of our core business by adding to the work load or distracting people from it, how will adding more Group Captains improve this situation i.e you said 'And I would have thought 400 is a bit on the low side isn't it?' or did you mean that more Group Captains are require to resolve the problems, but less of some of the other ranks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallas
We've taken our eye off the ball over the years and now have far too many people getting in the way of our core product, either adding to the workload or distracting people from it.
So if there are to many people getting in the way of our core business by adding to the work load or distracting people from it, how will adding more Group Captains improve this situation i.e you said 'And I would have thought 400 is a bit on the low side isn't it?' or did you mean that more Group Captains are require to resolve the problems, but less of some of the other ranks?
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What I meant is I thought we had more than that, especially with medics added to the throng. We certainly don't need any more. What we do need is 100% manning in trades and branches that operate the actual aircraft. We seem to have lots of parasitical trades/branches that were always intended to support those concerned with flying, who have adapted to create their own empires unrelated to flying whatsoever and often with little awareness of it. Admin would be a prime example of contradictory cost and contribution.
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I can't knock it. It does provide some great training and sometimes not taken seriously outside the airfield gates... would I do it now..... no. It really is not what it should be...... like the Navy, it has been run down to a point where it no longer functions as well as it should....and from the indications already, will be further shrunk.... keep away mate.
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To be honest I would quite happily stay, but to quote an old classic "It isn't what it used to be" Some of the new "people" I have had the pleasure to meet/train are just not up to it. I think that the only way round this is to "call me old fashioned" to return to a Scheme of "National Service" but with the provisio of not 6 weeks basic training but 6 to 12 months, thus installing a bit more Military "Way of life"/"discipline back into what is sadly missing in the force(s)(If you want a fighting force, you must train it to fight first and I don't just mean in the boozer on a Saturday Night). Basically the choice is up to the individual, stay in or get another job. It will never happen in my lifetime but the thought was there.