oh dear
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Lol, Sit back and wait ABIW, it should be a good'un.
And just for the record Beagle, you do sound like a pompous prat, but I can't be bothered to start a inter-aircrew/sqn/type bitchfight over who has more minerals. There are other issues at stake.
And just for the record Beagle, you do sound like a pompous prat, but I can't be bothered to start a inter-aircrew/sqn/type bitchfight over who has more minerals. There are other issues at stake.
Well, I suppose it is half -term...
For state schools...
Whatever those are.
For your information, Beagle Aviation was placed in receivership in 1969. The manufacturing rights for the Srs B-120 Bulldog were then taken over by Scottish Aviation.
Back to the thread, children?
For state schools...
Whatever those are.
For your information, Beagle Aviation was placed in receivership in 1969. The manufacturing rights for the Srs B-120 Bulldog were then taken over by Scottish Aviation.
Back to the thread, children?
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Well, I suppose it is half -term...
For state schools...
Whatever those are.
For your information, Beagle Aviation was placed in receivership in 1969. The manufacturing rights for the Srs B-120 Bulldog were then taken over by Scottish Aviation.
Back to the thread, children?
For state schools...
Whatever those are.
For your information, Beagle Aviation was placed in receivership in 1969. The manufacturing rights for the Srs B-120 Bulldog were then taken over by Scottish Aviation.
Back to the thread, children?
PS. Perhaps, (and this is just a theory) your perception of idle under achieving truckies is coloured by the truckie fleet you were on......? Don't tar the rest of us with the same brush. Cheers
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Well at least it lifted the mood for a moment!! At least you didn't call yourself a Bassett cos we know how capable they were .... who manufactured them?
To reiterate - in 30 yrs of using AT, never had a problem with the crews - BUT - what really gripped my ****e was the unbelievable attitude of the movers towards the pax - WITHOUT EXEPTION!
I am perplexed by the number of people jumping to conclusions on this subject when they are blatantly unaware of all the facts. Two sides to every story, anyone?
Yes, if you haven’t guessed by now I am a Movs Officer (Supply Officer with the Movs annotation), and I am bl00dy proud of the hard work and can-do attitude displayed by the vast majority of the Movs Trade! If you are dissatisfied with the standard of service received from Movs Staff then please seek out the chain of command and let them know; attitude readjustment can them commence! After all we are all on the same side….aren’t we?
Yes, if you haven’t guessed by now I am a Movs Officer (Supply Officer with the Movs annotation), and I am bl00dy proud of the hard work and can-do attitude displayed by the vast majority of the Movs Trade! If you are dissatisfied with the standard of service received from Movs Staff then please seek out the chain of command and let them know; attitude readjustment can them commence! After all we are all on the same side….aren’t we?
Rant over, message ends!
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Have read through this thread and feel the need to comment. Being on duty on the day of this incident at the aircraft's home base, we knew before if left theatre that is was going to be u/s on arrival in Cyprus. We had a eng rep passed from the GE before it left.
Would all aircrew who have told us how good they all are at looking after passengers, care to explain why the pax were only told of the problem after they arrived at AKT. Too busy in the five hours to be the great communicators and people focus types they claim to be?"
Would all aircrew who have told us how good they all are at looking after passengers, care to explain why the pax were only told of the problem after they arrived at AKT. Too busy in the five hours to be the great communicators and people focus types they claim to be?"
FatLad, indeed a good post, however I think many of us, who have on occasion sent up the chain if we have received a less than satis service, find that little, if anything appears to happen. Correct me if i'm wrong, as I said nothing APPEARS to happen. That's obviously not the fault of the guy on the ground, but a fault of the system. eg the routestage. Does it really work??
Chug, you have hit the nail on the head, well done.
All the best,
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Once they were late landing and blamed the RAF. As BEags said, big mistake OC Ops Lossie objected and BA had to apologise. Unfortunately the 100 odd pax would not have got that apology.
Second time they put the jet on the ground at Kinloss. Immediately a vehicle arrived from Dalcross like phoning ahead good boys. OC Ops was then flabergasted as the crew descended, got in the limousine and drove off leaving the aircraft, power off, load of pax on board. "Not our problem old boy, ServisAir (or who ever), crew duty time etc, bye"
A movement team was quickly summoned and some sort of order imposed but of course no transport of baggage handling was possible.
'Nother time at Gatwick - 90 minute flight - baggage 120 minutes from the aircraft. BA couldn't care less. Not paid for another flight with them since.
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To try and take some of the flak away fom the movers, why is the RAF Akrotitri holiday camp opening hours (and the infamous Akrotiri window) still such a Holy Grail? I met a guy a few years back who had been OC Ops at Akrotiri when they had binned the "window" and operated all hours. He told me they were manned for 24 hr ops.
So, why do aircraft staging through Akr still have to meet the window requirements, now that it is under "new management". I have seen another nation's airbase that is not scaled for 24 hr ops repeatedly asked to open way beyond its own operating hrs, simply to allow the RAFaircraft to land late, as its arrival time has been dictated by the RAF Akrotiri window.
So, why do aircraft staging through Akr still have to meet the window requirements, now that it is under "new management". I have seen another nation's airbase that is not scaled for 24 hr ops repeatedly asked to open way beyond its own operating hrs, simply to allow the RAFaircraft to land late, as its arrival time has been dictated by the RAF Akrotiri window.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
AB, the window, IIRC, came in to being in 1974 after the invasion and run down of Akrotiri. It stopped being manned 24 hrs and NEAF set up the window so that the single shift workers were not, by default, dragged in to 2 or even 3 shifts which would surely have happened.
Isn't inertia and clinging on to a good thing wonderful?
Isn't inertia and clinging on to a good thing wonderful?
Some conclusions: clearly there is a toxic relationship here. In the nature of things, if neither party trusts the other, no amount of "Well, I'm a mover/I'm aircrew and I'm really good, stop picking on me" will help.
There's also a typical failure to understand the supposedly private sector practices the last three governments have been so keen on. Giving public-sector organisations a strict budget to stick to, a business plan, "trading funds", having to pay capital charges back to Treasury etc - it always seems to add up to one thing: we work until the budget is reached, then stop dead.
A real company supplying the government that has contracted to provide something and received payment doesn't have this privilege. If they miscalculated their costs and discover halfway that it's a bad deal, tough. Essentially, AT has contracted to serve the pax - and if it's going to burst the budget, well, shoulda thought of that when you took on the job. Naturally, as fake private sector practices are always imposed to save money, the budget is never sufficient. And because it's possible to walk away from serving the public, the efficiency savings never turn up.
Another point is that there is a classic sign of a sick organisation, which is that doing ordinary routine jobs well requires leadership. Leadership is what you need when things get weird. It shouldn't be necessary to do outstanding things to provide the basic normal job, but clearly it is. Also, no-one seems to be responsible for it.
Suggestions; break down the mover task and hire civilians to run BZZ. Works for Virgin.. Routinise the lot. There is no real need for special personnel and facilities to run a smallish airline, which is what the airbridge is as far as Akrotiri or Dubai. They become necessary down-route in operational theatres and if an airborne operation is planned - which should anyway be colocated with 16AAB at Wattisham.. Appoint one person to be responsible for each trip in all respects.
There's also a typical failure to understand the supposedly private sector practices the last three governments have been so keen on. Giving public-sector organisations a strict budget to stick to, a business plan, "trading funds", having to pay capital charges back to Treasury etc - it always seems to add up to one thing: we work until the budget is reached, then stop dead.
A real company supplying the government that has contracted to provide something and received payment doesn't have this privilege. If they miscalculated their costs and discover halfway that it's a bad deal, tough. Essentially, AT has contracted to serve the pax - and if it's going to burst the budget, well, shoulda thought of that when you took on the job. Naturally, as fake private sector practices are always imposed to save money, the budget is never sufficient. And because it's possible to walk away from serving the public, the efficiency savings never turn up.
Another point is that there is a classic sign of a sick organisation, which is that doing ordinary routine jobs well requires leadership. Leadership is what you need when things get weird. It shouldn't be necessary to do outstanding things to provide the basic normal job, but clearly it is. Also, no-one seems to be responsible for it.
Suggestions; break down the mover task and hire civilians to run BZZ. Works for Virgin.. Routinise the lot. There is no real need for special personnel and facilities to run a smallish airline, which is what the airbridge is as far as Akrotiri or Dubai. They become necessary down-route in operational theatres and if an airborne operation is planned - which should anyway be colocated with 16AAB at Wattisham.. Appoint one person to be responsible for each trip in all respects.
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Tis a shame that we many pages of anecdotes relating to poor service. It is easy to retreat into the 'well they are not one of us why should we help' mentality but it is also possible to try to help. Perhaps things are better away from the MOBs when the movs and sqn personnel socialise together on dets (I'm thinking Op WARDEN between the GWs when I had the 'privilege' to have MT and Movs as my responsibilty) and favours can be earned and repaid. However, I did feel a bit sorry for the transit pax given the poor facilities, especially the Turdis WC in summer temps. Although on one occasion we had a distress call from a C-130 homeward bound from Georgia or somewhere similar after one of those Open Skies/Wpn inspection trips requesting a toilet stop, preferably porcelain, since the team had developed food poisoning and had filled the on-board facilities. We managed to get them to the food mall but denied all responsibility for their actions thereafter. So we could be human occasionally. Or another time when a VIP 146 dropped in and we made an effort to get the steward to the commissary before it shut for the the day because the following day was one of the 'no fly' days which meant everything shut and his VIP would go hungry. I don't pretend our attitude was perfect but it didn't hurt to put yourself in the other person's shoes occasionally, and in any case we still suffered the same start and finish from LYE or BZN. And I hope that the Comp A system still works as well as it did back then, when it did seem that we could all pull together as a team.
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[QUOTE=greycoat;2924393Or another time when a VIP 146 dropped in and we made an effort to get the steward to the commissary before it shut for the the day because the following day was one of the 'no fly' days which meant everything shut and his VIP would go hungry. [/QUOTE]
Inflight rations from the commisary? tut tut.
Inflight rations from the commisary? tut tut.
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Movers are great at the technical side of getting kit onto aircraft and sorting out the paperwork - but when it comes to customer service and the human interface, things don't change.
Dhahran, Op JURAL, Summer 92. Essential piece of C2 kit for DETCO to get his job done, long overdue from Blighty. Finally due to arrive on single AT arrival of the day (note use of the word single), late afternoon. Proceed to logs area to discover pallets unloaded successfully, AT already departing.
To Movements Officer: "Please can we have our urgent kit that's been overdue".
"No, if we don't go back to the hotel now we'll miss our tea. We'll break down the pallets in the morning"
The Movs team had worked for all of a couple of hours that day waiting on, processing and turning around the single AT - unlike the rest of the det busting a gut to achieve operations. Maybe they could have taken a bigger lunch in anticpation of the AT arriving late in the afternon? Get real.
The taste of the attitude still lingers .....
Dhahran, Op JURAL, Summer 92. Essential piece of C2 kit for DETCO to get his job done, long overdue from Blighty. Finally due to arrive on single AT arrival of the day (note use of the word single), late afternoon. Proceed to logs area to discover pallets unloaded successfully, AT already departing.
To Movements Officer: "Please can we have our urgent kit that's been overdue".
"No, if we don't go back to the hotel now we'll miss our tea. We'll break down the pallets in the morning"
The Movs team had worked for all of a couple of hours that day waiting on, processing and turning around the single AT - unlike the rest of the det busting a gut to achieve operations. Maybe they could have taken a bigger lunch in anticpation of the AT arriving late in the afternon? Get real.
The taste of the attitude still lingers .....
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"Movers are great at the technical side of getting kit onto aircraft and sorting out the paperwork"........................really, seldom experienced that
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Last edited by Always_broken_in_wilts; 25th Oct 2006 at 21:19.
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Movers are great at the technical side of getting kit onto aircraft
S_H
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a slight drift .......
a question ...... what Aircraft would have been used for transfering RAF personnel to/from Aden/UK around the mid sixties? ....
What would the route have been? .....
mucho gratias in advance ....
a question ...... what Aircraft would have been used for transfering RAF personnel to/from Aden/UK around the mid sixties? ....
What would the route have been? .....
mucho gratias in advance ....