Muslim accosts injured Para in hospital
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Muslim accosts injured Para in hospital
From today's Daily Telegraph:
Muslim accosts injured Para in hospital
By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 02/10/2006)
A paratrooper wounded in Afghanistan was threatened by a Muslim visitor to the British hospital where he is recovering.
Seriously wounded soldiers have complained that they are worried about their safety after being left on wards that are open to the public at Selly Oak Hospital, Birmingham.
On one occasion a member of the Parachute Regiment, still dressed in his combat uniform after being evacuated from Afghanistan, was accosted by a Muslim over the British involvement in the country.
"You have been killing my Muslim brothers in Afghanistan," the man said during a tirade.
Because the soldier was badly injured and could not defend himself, he was very worried for his safety, sources told The Daily Telegraph.
A relative of the Para said the man had twice walked on to the ward where two other soldiers and four civilians were being treated without once being challenged by staff.
"It's not the best way to treat our returning men," he said. "They are nervous that these guys might attack them and, despite being paratroopers, they cannot defend themselves because of their injuries."
The Ministry of Defence, which said that it had no record of threatening incidents, indicated that there was a military security presence at the hospital and it co-operated closely with local police.
A MoD spokesman said there was "appropriate security" at Selly Oak for the 11 servicemen currently being treated.
But Liam Fox, the shadow defence secretary, called the treatment of wounded troops "an absolute disgrace".
"They should be in completely separate wings even if this means shutting down entire NHS wards. It is a betrayal of our troops having them treated in mixed and open wards. Those who have been injured on operations must be with those who understand their predicament in a secure environment.
"The Defence Secretary should be having urgent talks with the Health Secretary to do this otherwise this Government's commitment to our Armed Forces is nothing but talk."
There is also resentment among serving troops unhappy about being treated in a NHS hospital that they believe is unsuitable for military patients.
Soldiers on operations say they would rather receive a more serious injury and go to the top American military hospital in Ramstein, Germany, than end up in a NHS hospital.
They now half jokingly refer to getting "a Boche rather than a Blighty" in reference to the wounds that would send them home. Ramstein has an outstanding unit for brain surgery, and neurological intensive care beds in Britain are in short supply. "The blokes see it that if you are unlucky you get wounded and go to the UK at the mercy of the NHS, but if you get a head wound you get sent to Ramstein in Germany where the US has an outstanding medical facility," said an officer serving in Afghanistan.
"It also does not do morale much good knowing that within 18 hours of being wounded you could wake up in a NHS hospital with a mental health patient on one side and an incontinent geriatric on the other."
The latest figures show that 86 troops have been injured in Afghanistan during the past six months of fighting. More than 600 soldiers have been flown back to Britain after being injured on operations abroad since 2003 with most treated at Selly Oak, which is also the headquarters of the Royal Centre for Defence Medicine.
In the past decade the seven military hospitals in Britain, Germany and Cyprus have been closed. The remaining military hospital at Haslar, Portsmouth, is expected to be sold to developers next year.
Muslim accosts injured Para in hospital
By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 02/10/2006)
A paratrooper wounded in Afghanistan was threatened by a Muslim visitor to the British hospital where he is recovering.
Seriously wounded soldiers have complained that they are worried about their safety after being left on wards that are open to the public at Selly Oak Hospital, Birmingham.
On one occasion a member of the Parachute Regiment, still dressed in his combat uniform after being evacuated from Afghanistan, was accosted by a Muslim over the British involvement in the country.
"You have been killing my Muslim brothers in Afghanistan," the man said during a tirade.
Because the soldier was badly injured and could not defend himself, he was very worried for his safety, sources told The Daily Telegraph.
A relative of the Para said the man had twice walked on to the ward where two other soldiers and four civilians were being treated without once being challenged by staff.
"It's not the best way to treat our returning men," he said. "They are nervous that these guys might attack them and, despite being paratroopers, they cannot defend themselves because of their injuries."
The Ministry of Defence, which said that it had no record of threatening incidents, indicated that there was a military security presence at the hospital and it co-operated closely with local police.
A MoD spokesman said there was "appropriate security" at Selly Oak for the 11 servicemen currently being treated.
But Liam Fox, the shadow defence secretary, called the treatment of wounded troops "an absolute disgrace".
"They should be in completely separate wings even if this means shutting down entire NHS wards. It is a betrayal of our troops having them treated in mixed and open wards. Those who have been injured on operations must be with those who understand their predicament in a secure environment.
"The Defence Secretary should be having urgent talks with the Health Secretary to do this otherwise this Government's commitment to our Armed Forces is nothing but talk."
There is also resentment among serving troops unhappy about being treated in a NHS hospital that they believe is unsuitable for military patients.
Soldiers on operations say they would rather receive a more serious injury and go to the top American military hospital in Ramstein, Germany, than end up in a NHS hospital.
They now half jokingly refer to getting "a Boche rather than a Blighty" in reference to the wounds that would send them home. Ramstein has an outstanding unit for brain surgery, and neurological intensive care beds in Britain are in short supply. "The blokes see it that if you are unlucky you get wounded and go to the UK at the mercy of the NHS, but if you get a head wound you get sent to Ramstein in Germany where the US has an outstanding medical facility," said an officer serving in Afghanistan.
"It also does not do morale much good knowing that within 18 hours of being wounded you could wake up in a NHS hospital with a mental health patient on one side and an incontinent geriatric on the other."
The latest figures show that 86 troops have been injured in Afghanistan during the past six months of fighting. More than 600 soldiers have been flown back to Britain after being injured on operations abroad since 2003 with most treated at Selly Oak, which is also the headquarters of the Royal Centre for Defence Medicine.
In the past decade the seven military hospitals in Britain, Germany and Cyprus have been closed. The remaining military hospital at Haslar, Portsmouth, is expected to be sold to developers next year.
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That is appalling, I had a gut feeling that this sort of thing would happen. I am all for a multi cultural society with freedom of speech but please.
The last time I returned from a warm and arrid place I was a little uncomfortable stopping in a garage to get a coffee in my desert combats, but to have that happen when you are completely defenceless is an utter disgrace.
Once again the cutbacks of yesterday have a marked effect on our servicemen and women today.
The last time I returned from a warm and arrid place I was a little uncomfortable stopping in a garage to get a coffee in my desert combats, but to have that happen when you are completely defenceless is an utter disgrace.
Once again the cutbacks of yesterday have a marked effect on our servicemen and women today.
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I'm going to stick my neck out here and say this seems to be the product of a slow news day. Some Muslim bloke sounds off at a Para, so what. Are we really saying that our troops should either be kept in foreign hospitals or put in wards here that are exclusive and guarded by armed police? That is way more worrying than some gob****e sounding off.
Military hospitals should not have been closed but they have. The only other option is to use NHS hospitals and as to being put in a bed next to an old person or whatever, the last time I was in Wroughton I was on a mixed ward and the bloke next to me used to scream in his sleep.
I do believe however, that our seriously injured service personnel should be bumped to the top of the list for all treatment (I suspect they are already).
As for verbal abuse, well, if we are fighting for democracy and free speech overseas, best we practice it here. Personally, I think any Muslim with attitude would be well advised to keep away from an injured Para, a bit like kicking a rabid dog in the nuts.
Military hospitals should not have been closed but they have. The only other option is to use NHS hospitals and as to being put in a bed next to an old person or whatever, the last time I was in Wroughton I was on a mixed ward and the bloke next to me used to scream in his sleep.
I do believe however, that our seriously injured service personnel should be bumped to the top of the list for all treatment (I suspect they are already).
As for verbal abuse, well, if we are fighting for democracy and free speech overseas, best we practice it here. Personally, I think any Muslim with attitude would be well advised to keep away from an injured Para, a bit like kicking a rabid dog in the nuts.
If Walter Wolfgang, the old git who shouted at Tone last year was grabbed under terror laws, then this 'brother' should have been hoiked off for a serious kicking, er fall down the stairs to the cell, M'lud.
Then, ANY amount of public money should be used to fit him up for: threatening behaviour; trespass; or being a berk.
And I'm a very, very easy-going bloke.
CG
Then, ANY amount of public money should be used to fit him up for: threatening behaviour; trespass; or being a berk.
And I'm a very, very easy-going bloke.
CG
Last edited by charliegolf; 2nd Oct 2006 at 08:51. Reason: ungentlemanly, intemperate language
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It was amusing to read Liam Fox's comments getting all steamed up about the derisory facilities for the treatment of the wounded. It was John Major's Govt that brought in the swingeing cuts to military hospitals. I would rather hear what a future Tory administration intends to do about the mess-aside from sticking windmills on top of NHS hospitals. Maybe we should drag out the former Tory Ministers and ask them to account for their actions.
The old military hospital at Halton is still sitting idle and empty. It may be impossible to return to the full network of military hospitals, but it should not be impossible to fairly rapidly return one to use.
When not required for op casualties, it could and would accomodate dependants and civilians, as it always used to. (My dear old mum passed away in Halton, and while advanced cancer is never going to be a bowl of cherries, the PMRAFNS staff and RAF medics certainly provided the best possible environment, care and treatment for her, giving her useful and happy extra months, and then treating her with kindness and respect, allowing her to fight and die with dignity).
When not required for op casualties, it could and would accomodate dependants and civilians, as it always used to. (My dear old mum passed away in Halton, and while advanced cancer is never going to be a bowl of cherries, the PMRAFNS staff and RAF medics certainly provided the best possible environment, care and treatment for her, giving her useful and happy extra months, and then treating her with kindness and respect, allowing her to fight and die with dignity).
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I googled miltary hospital closures and found an article in the BMJ back in 1994. It raised the concern that should the closures go ahead, this would erode the military medical training base to the point where you couldn't simply re-open a full hospital even if you wanted to.
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The old military hospital at Halton is still sitting idle and empty. It may be impossible to return to the full network of military hospitals, but it should not be impossible to fairly rapidly return one to use.
When not required for op casualties, it could and would accomodate dependants and civilians, as it always used to. (My dear old mum passed away in Halton, and while advanced cancer is never going to be a bowl of cherries, the PMRAFNS staff and RAF medics certainly provided the best possible environment, care and treatment for her, giving her useful and happy extra months, and then treating her with kindness and respect, allowing her to fight and die with dignity).
When not required for op casualties, it could and would accomodate dependants and civilians, as it always used to. (My dear old mum passed away in Halton, and while advanced cancer is never going to be a bowl of cherries, the PMRAFNS staff and RAF medics certainly provided the best possible environment, care and treatment for her, giving her useful and happy extra months, and then treating her with kindness and respect, allowing her to fight and die with dignity).
The RN doesn't want it to close, nor, as far as I am aware, do the other Services. Why can't the ******** in central Government see this and actually do what's right for a change?
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Jacko I was treated at Wroughton and have similar memories to yourself. Wroughton would take overspill from the Swindon NHS hospitals. It had a state of art MRI scanner, which was why I was there. Of course this hospital was closed by John Major, for jam tomorrow, even though it was located between the 2 military air heads in the UK. The Tories have been ominously silent on the Defence Budget, their turn may be coming once more. Liam Fox should not be allowed own goals whilst his policy lite leader ignores the plight of troops taking appalling injuries on the killing fields of Afghan. There has been fierce fighting in recent days, it is not reported because journos cannot get in there. This war continues and so the casualties will mount.
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And what if it had been 2 Muslim blokes, or 4, or 8? As you know nowadays, 'sounding off' very quickly becomes assault.
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Slow news day or not, this should not have been allowed to happen; where was the security and is it being reviewed? I have been involved with the repatriation of injured servicemen who have managed to avoid the ultimate sacrifice by the skin of their teeth and should be given the security that is needed to recover with dignity. I was accosted by a man and woman at a service station whilst RTB from BZN whilst in dessies, and told that what I had been doing was wrong. All I could do was agree in the case of Iraq and pay for my goods and walk. The headlines 'Officer batters living cr@p out of couple out for country drive' was starting to illuminate. People like these are in the minority though, and most seem to support us when they see us.
No Tax for OOA's, bringing back service hospitals.......short term vote winning sound bites Mr Cameron, put your money where your mouth is because I truly believe if you get in next time, you will be the man who reaps what Labour has sown - and it isnt good.
No Tax for OOA's, bringing back service hospitals.......short term vote winning sound bites Mr Cameron, put your money where your mouth is because I truly believe if you get in next time, you will be the man who reaps what Labour has sown - and it isnt good.
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I received EXCELLENT care from Prinecss Alexandra's Hospital, RAF Wroughton, and also had my broken leg repaired nicely at RAF(H) Wegberg. I heard (not sure how true) that Wroughton was offered gratis to the local NHS people on closure, but was turned down, as it would have derailed plans for the new Great Western hospital. Absolutetely disgraceful that the military hospitals should close in the first place, then to compound it, they are left to rot.
As for this individual in Selly Oak, I wish injured bloke's mates had taken him round the back of the incinerator and beaten the living **** out of him.
Bu what would I know? I'm just a retired old pongo that's hacked off with the whole shooting match. God speed to those still serving this "government".
As for this individual in Selly Oak, I wish injured bloke's mates had taken him round the back of the incinerator and beaten the living **** out of him.
Bu what would I know? I'm just a retired old pongo that's hacked off with the whole shooting match. God speed to those still serving this "government".
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I'm going to stick my neck out here and say this seems to be the product of a slow news day. Some Muslim bloke sounds off at a Para, so what. Are we really saying that our troops should either be kept in foreign hospitals or put in wards here that are exclusive and guarded by armed police? That is way more worrying than some gob****e sounding off.
I'm not labelling Birmingham as a bad place, its not however, it is any area of concern in relation to terrorism, fact.
You can't walk into a maternity ward without passing through a locked door in most hospitals so, it would not take much to do something similar to the wards where our troops are recovering from their injuries.
It's hardly an invasion of public rights & I'm sure any visiting relatives would welcome the security of their loved ones.
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Tombstone.
My point is that if you have to protect our servicemen from the society they are supposed to be fighting for, then something has gone horribly, horribly wrong.
The simple fact is we are fighting in 2 unpopular wars where people on the street feel we are far worse off now than when this began. (extra security, petrol prices etc). I have had far more respect from the locals in Basrah and the Stan than I have had from our beloved public back here!
With that in mind, our politico elite are not going to open/retain any military hospitals. It does not grab headlines or win votes.
Makes you proud to serve doesn't it?
My point is that if you have to protect our servicemen from the society they are supposed to be fighting for, then something has gone horribly, horribly wrong.
The simple fact is we are fighting in 2 unpopular wars where people on the street feel we are far worse off now than when this began. (extra security, petrol prices etc). I have had far more respect from the locals in Basrah and the Stan than I have had from our beloved public back here!
With that in mind, our politico elite are not going to open/retain any military hospitals. It does not grab headlines or win votes.
Makes you proud to serve doesn't it?
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We are second class citizens mate, shocking.
Can you imagine how the public would react to the news of one of our Paras being killed in a UK hospital by a muslim, perhaps using a suicide attack?
Not to mention the effect that would have on the morale of every serviceman.
Can you imagine how the public would react to the news of one of our Paras being killed in a UK hospital by a muslim, perhaps using a suicide attack?
Not to mention the effect that would have on the morale of every serviceman.
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We are second class citizens mate, shocking.
Can you imagine how the public would react to the news of one of our Paras being killed in a UK hospital by a muslim, perhaps using a suicide attack?
Not to mention the effect that would have on the morale of every serviceman.
Can you imagine how the public would react to the news of one of our Paras being killed in a UK hospital by a muslim, perhaps using a suicide attack?
Not to mention the effect that would have on the morale of every serviceman.
Thread Starter
Let's be careful not to go down the route of anything which the PC-nazis might construe as racism.....
The true scandal is the appallingly run down state of the UK's Armed Forces - particularly the so-called health care.
I was advised by an RAF doctor (who saw this coming) to sign on with BUPA rather than risk the wreckage of the once proud RAF medical service.
The true scandal is the appallingly run down state of the UK's Armed Forces - particularly the so-called health care.
I was advised by an RAF doctor (who saw this coming) to sign on with BUPA rather than risk the wreckage of the once proud RAF medical service.
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Just been reading the Telegraph in which there is an article on munitions used throughout the Paras tour of duty:
443,000 rounds.
3,500 mortar rounds.
400 hand grenades thrown.
Not to mention the tonnage dropped by the Bona mates & A10s.
I can only imagine how much John Reid regrets stating that "British troops might leave Afghanistan in 3 years time without firing a shot."
Dr Reid, you really are a
kn*bber who represents his party in an uncannily accurate manner. 
443,000 rounds.
3,500 mortar rounds.
400 hand grenades thrown.
Not to mention the tonnage dropped by the Bona mates & A10s.
I can only imagine how much John Reid regrets stating that "British troops might leave Afghanistan in 3 years time without firing a shot."
Dr Reid, you really are a
kn*bber who represents his party in an uncannily accurate manner.
What would have happened if the Para had defended himself, and swung for the Muslim bloke?
No doubt the Para would have been classed as the gulty person, in a "racially motivated" attack.
If that muslim doesnt like what the government are doing in Aghanistan, then he should poke off and find another country to live in.
Or are there no other countries where he can live IN SAFETY (thanks to the forces) that'll let him in?
No doubt the Para would have been classed as the gulty person, in a "racially motivated" attack.
If that muslim doesnt like what the government are doing in Aghanistan, then he should poke off and find another country to live in.
Or are there no other countries where he can live IN SAFETY (thanks to the forces) that'll let him in?