RAF - the 'junior' service?
So, with 14000 fewer people we operate 70 vessels and 200 combat aircraft
And where are you getting your 200 combat aircraft ? Your Harriers are our old ac and whilst you do have a few Hawks knocking about the place, I would hardly describe the Jet Streams as combat types. And yes you do have helos, but aren't most of them still in bits on the hangar floor somewhere, with the ones in Basrah on their last legs and being held together by Duck Tape and rust with the drivers complaining they haven't seen a single Russian sub since 1978?
We could go round and round in ever decreasing circles with this one, but personally, I think for once we should get together and show true jointery and reach a gentlemens' agreement:
We'll agree that the Navy, whilst being fine old gentlemen are starting to smell a bit in their old age and require constant help from the nursing staff, that the Army are the irritating parents - disliked by both the kids and the grandparents constantly trotting out the argument 'because I said so' whenever anbody dares to disagree, and that the RAF are the young upstarts heading towards the ASBOs and court appearance but ultimately the future. And that we all hate the bloody politicians and bean counters
Oh and yes, I do twirl my moustache in a Terry Thomas style, although I could never quite get the drawling 'hello' off as well as he did.
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Fair point, I got the 200 figure from the RN website and it may need updating to round it down a smidge.
I do have another question. During WWII Coastal command was put under the control of the RN because all its work was in conjunction with the RN and it was a far more sensible arrangement. How will it be any different when the JCA squadrons get up and running? Two squadrons at least are going to have to be worked up for carrier ops and given the tempo of operations at the moment, one carrier is always likely to be away. Why not call them 800 and 801?
I know, I know, I'm pi$$ing in the wind on that one - but I do think that the RAf pilots will be timing their squadron appointments to get out of carrier time and the RN boys will be timing theirs to get into it. Result - the RN pilots remain the embarked specialists and squadrons with RAF numbers will have minimal RAF involvement. What's the point of that?
Roland - an MR2 might be able to find something, but lobbing out a liferaft hardly qualifies as rescue. If LGB and stormshadow are integrated, then feel free to claim the capability, for now you can't. I concede that the Lynx has substantially less endurance, but it is employed with the GR7 ethos of staying close to the action and having an increased sortie rate. You can't condemn the Lynx ethos without damning the GR7. The fact remains that a Lynx can get to a lot of places that a Nimrod can't, unless you want to move Australia on the globe - again!
I do have another question. During WWII Coastal command was put under the control of the RN because all its work was in conjunction with the RN and it was a far more sensible arrangement. How will it be any different when the JCA squadrons get up and running? Two squadrons at least are going to have to be worked up for carrier ops and given the tempo of operations at the moment, one carrier is always likely to be away. Why not call them 800 and 801?
I know, I know, I'm pi$$ing in the wind on that one - but I do think that the RAf pilots will be timing their squadron appointments to get out of carrier time and the RN boys will be timing theirs to get into it. Result - the RN pilots remain the embarked specialists and squadrons with RAF numbers will have minimal RAF involvement. What's the point of that?
Roland - an MR2 might be able to find something, but lobbing out a liferaft hardly qualifies as rescue. If LGB and stormshadow are integrated, then feel free to claim the capability, for now you can't. I concede that the Lynx has substantially less endurance, but it is employed with the GR7 ethos of staying close to the action and having an increased sortie rate. You can't condemn the Lynx ethos without damning the GR7. The fact remains that a Lynx can get to a lot of places that a Nimrod can't, unless you want to move Australia on the globe - again!
Oh, come now, Roly old bean. You can't dismiss the RN's fixed wing combat aircraft so easily.......
.....don't forget that they also have a Sea Fury, Sea Hawk......and a couple of Swordfish!
They must be the only military organisation in the world whose highest performance aircraft are in their heritage flight.......
But hey, let them have their little jokes about 'crabs' as they bounce across the briny in their little grey coffins from cockers P to cockers P in order to contribute to the nation's defence by poncing about in sailor suits to impress the locals.
.....don't forget that they also have a Sea Fury, Sea Hawk......and a couple of Swordfish!
They must be the only military organisation in the world whose highest performance aircraft are in their heritage flight.......
But hey, let them have their little jokes about 'crabs' as they bounce across the briny in their little grey coffins from cockers P to cockers P in order to contribute to the nation's defence by poncing about in sailor suits to impress the locals.
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Nuff respec
I wouldn't ever belittle a good day at the office. Banter is banter, but saving lives is saving lives. I am fairly sure that any further away and they'd have sent a Pussers grey with a Lynx on the back though.
And after they'd been rescued they'd have been regaled with top sh@gging dits on the way back to the ship.
I wouldn't ever belittle a good day at the office. Banter is banter, but saving lives is saving lives. I am fairly sure that any further away and they'd have sent a Pussers grey with a Lynx on the back though.
And after they'd been rescued they'd have been regaled with top sh@gging dits on the way back to the ship.
"And after they'd been rescued they'd have been given a top sh@gging on the way back to the ship"
Undoubtedly.....
"D'you hear there! Hands to buggery stations - fresh meat coming aboard!"
Undoubtedly.....
"D'you hear there! Hands to buggery stations - fresh meat coming aboard!"
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Well, you know the Navy motto:
'If it moves, sh@g it - if it doesn't move, sh@g it until it does'
Seems like a fair price for being rescued.
I know you're RAF, but you are aware it's not just for pi$$ing through, aren't you?
'If it moves, sh@g it - if it doesn't move, sh@g it until it does'
Seems like a fair price for being rescued.
I know you're RAF, but you are aware it's not just for pi$$ing through, aren't you?
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As far as biggest bang for your buck goes I think 3 trident subs beats anything the crabs can muster several times over.
As far as Senior Service goes? Wouldnt that be the 'lady's' that hang around the back of Stonehouse barracks or the docks in Pompei? They have been providing a service for many years...so I am told.
Do they still have that damn foll rule where you cannot transfer from the 'senior service' to the junior? It is possible that I would be an ALM now if that had not been in place.
As far as Senior Service goes? Wouldnt that be the 'lady's' that hang around the back of Stonehouse barracks or the docks in Pompei? They have been providing a service for many years...so I am told.
Do they still have that damn foll rule where you cannot transfer from the 'senior service' to the junior? It is possible that I would be an ALM now if that had not been in place.
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GPMG - Unaware that rule existed, know of several who have 'downgraded'!
Senior Service not as old as the 'oldest profession' although a regular sponsor (so I am led to believe ).
Senior Service not as old as the 'oldest profession' although a regular sponsor (so I am led to believe
).
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In order to settle this debate, i think it's only fair that we ask a third party as to their opinion....
So Major James Loden.... how would you describe the RAF??
Shall we say no more?
So Major James Loden.... how would you describe the RAF??
Shall we say no more?
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Ahh but how did The Chief of General Staff, General Sir Richard Dannatt describe the RAF?
http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?...&id=1410152006
"THE country's top soldier has praised the Royal Air Force as "exceptional" in the wake of comments by an officer condemning its performance in Afghanistan as "utterly, utterly useless".
The Chief of General Staff, General Sir Richard Dannatt, lavished praise on the RAF's efforts in support of the ground forces and described the remarks made by Major James Loden of 3 Para as "irresponsible".
Your go again nick0021.
http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?...&id=1410152006
"THE country's top soldier has praised the Royal Air Force as "exceptional" in the wake of comments by an officer condemning its performance in Afghanistan as "utterly, utterly useless".
The Chief of General Staff, General Sir Richard Dannatt, lavished praise on the RAF's efforts in support of the ground forces and described the remarks made by Major James Loden of 3 Para as "irresponsible".
Your go again nick0021.
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Churchill was never First Sea Lord. He was First Lord of the Admiralty, which was a Ministerial position and purely (if that's not an oxymoron) political. As it happened, he did throw his weight around disproportionately and used the experience shamelessly to lead the First Sea Lord a dog's life in the second lot.
The First Sea Lord is the Chief of the Naval Staff in MoD Speak and answers to the Lord High Admiral, HM the Q. That said, the PM and the Secretary of State for Defence (and, covertly, the Chancellor of the Exchequer) can lead him a dog's life! As that is common to the CGS and the CAS, does that make it a Custom or a Habit?
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Mustflywillfly
Quote:
And can I just remind all you crabs that the only service to shoot another aircraft down since WWII is yes, that's right, the Navy.
You need to do a little more research. The last RAF pilot to win a contested air-to-air engagement, that has been officially acknowledged, whilst flying an RAF plane was Fg Off Tim McElhaw of 208 Sqn flying a Spitfire FR18 when he shot down a Royal Egyptian Air Force Spitfire LF9 on 22 May 1948 near Ramat David airfield in Palestine.
www.spyflight.co.uk/iafvraf.htm
Heimdall
Quote:
And can I just remind all you crabs that the only service to shoot another aircraft down since WWII is yes, that's right, the Navy.
You need to do a little more research. The last RAF pilot to win a contested air-to-air engagement, that has been officially acknowledged, whilst flying an RAF plane was Fg Off Tim McElhaw of 208 Sqn flying a Spitfire FR18 when he shot down a Royal Egyptian Air Force Spitfire LF9 on 22 May 1948 near Ramat David airfield in Palestine.
www.spyflight.co.uk/iafvraf.htm
Heimdall
I noticed in your excellent link that a Syrian Meteor F8 splashed a Canberra PR7 at altitude. Now that must have taken a bit distinguished flying!
747
Posted by nick0021 - 6 Nov 06 - on a different thread....
So nick ....
What have you done in the last 8 days then? Or are you a retread who didn't get aircrew first time round?
Well I guess that is as close to the Armed Forces that you have been.
I recently passed my AIB for pilot and got 11.12 in the Bleep test. They said that this is a good pass, however the emphasis was placed more on effort than actually score. We were informed that it is more a test of motivation. Obviously the higher level you attain the better, however, someone who reaches level 9 and cannot physically take another step will score better than someone who reaches 12 and decides he/she has done enough. My advice would be, run until you can't run anymore ... then run a little harder. No pain, no gain!!
You might want to guess again !
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Originally Posted by Heimdall
Mustflywillfly
Quote:
And can I just remind all you crabs that the only service to shoot another aircraft down since WWII is yes, that's right, the Navy.
You need to do a little more research. The last RAF pilot to win a contested air-to-air engagement, that has been officially acknowledged, whilst flying an RAF plane was Fg Off Tim McElhaw of 208 Sqn flying a Spitfire FR18 when he shot down a Royal Egyptian Air Force Spitfire LF9 on 22 May 1948 near Ramat David airfield in Palestine.
www.spyflight.co.uk/iafvraf.htm
Heimdall
Mustflywillfly
Quote:
And can I just remind all you crabs that the only service to shoot another aircraft down since WWII is yes, that's right, the Navy.
You need to do a little more research. The last RAF pilot to win a contested air-to-air engagement, that has been officially acknowledged, whilst flying an RAF plane was Fg Off Tim McElhaw of 208 Sqn flying a Spitfire FR18 when he shot down a Royal Egyptian Air Force Spitfire LF9 on 22 May 1948 near Ramat David airfield in Palestine.
www.spyflight.co.uk/iafvraf.htm
Heimdall
BTW,
Mirage IIIEA of FAA Grupo 8 shot down north of West Falkland by Flt Lt Barton RAF in No.801 Sea Harrier using Sidewinder (4.10 pm). Lt Perona ejected safely.
Dagger A of FAA Grupo 6 shot down over East Falkland by Flt Lt Penfold RAF in No.800 Sea Harrier using Sidewinder (4.40 pm). Lt Ardiles killed.
A-4Q Skyhawk of CANA 3 Esc also shot down near Swan Island in Falkland Sound in same incident by Flt Lt Leeming RAF in No.800 Sea Harrier using 30mm cannon (3.12 pm). Lt Marquez was killed.
Puma SA.330L of CAB 601 flew into ground near Shag Cove House, West Falkland attempting to evade Flt Lt Morgan RAF in No.800 NAS Sea Harrier (10.30 am). All crew escaped.
Two A-4B Skyhawks of FAA Grupo 5 shot down over Choiseul Sound by Flt Lt Morgan RAF and a third by Lt D Smith in No.800 NAS Sea Harriers using Sidewinders (4.45 pm). Lt Arraras, Lt Bolzan and Ensign Vazquez killed.
Dagger A of FAA Grupo 6 shot down over East Falkland by Flt Lt Penfold RAF in No.800 Sea Harrier using Sidewinder (4.40 pm). Lt Ardiles killed.
A-4Q Skyhawk of CANA 3 Esc also shot down near Swan Island in Falkland Sound in same incident by Flt Lt Leeming RAF in No.800 Sea Harrier using 30mm cannon (3.12 pm). Lt Marquez was killed.
Puma SA.330L of CAB 601 flew into ground near Shag Cove House, West Falkland attempting to evade Flt Lt Morgan RAF in No.800 NAS Sea Harrier (10.30 am). All crew escaped.
Two A-4B Skyhawks of FAA Grupo 5 shot down over Choiseul Sound by Flt Lt Morgan RAF and a third by Lt D Smith in No.800 NAS Sea Harriers using Sidewinders (4.45 pm). Lt Arraras, Lt Bolzan and Ensign Vazquez killed.
Small-minded, single-service idiot.
