Foiled airline bomb plan - Well Done!
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Originally Posted by RonO
tablet eraser, you seem to equate folks living a different life style, following a different religion and maintaining their own culture with terrorists. What are you going to do? Put every british muslim in prison?
Read what I've said carefully before accusing me of xeonophobia or racism, please. I actually said I will accept immigrants who are willing to accept, at the very least, the rule of law. Terrorists do not conform to that very basic requirement. I would rather they were proud of being British, and had the "multiculturalist" agenda not encouraged the ghettoisation of communities I don't think it would be such a problem.
More specificially, I said that the qualities I want to see eradicated are:
Originally Posted by tablet_eraser
Incitement to racial hatred, racism, extreme sexism, failure to accept the diversity of religion in this country, preaching hatred, praising suicide bombers, supporting 9/11, celebrating 7/7... those are threatening parts of radicalised Islamic fundamentalism.
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If all you meant was that immigrants should observe the law then I apologise because I agree. Seems bleedin obvious tho. Problem is sorting out them that break the law from the rest. Not sure making them all play cricket or saluting the flag is going to achieve that. I know it doesn't work where I live despite claims above to the contrary.
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SAless old bean, took your advice and read Teddy again.
Still think it's a bunch of politician crappola.
Why? because he tells us all to defy our human nature to define ourselves by our backgrounds & upbringing before the place we choose to live. He goes further and labels people that do as a traitors to the United States. I think it's utter crap to label folks that call themselves Afro-American, Japanese-American, Italian-American, Chinese-American etc as traitors that should not be trusted to vote in the best interests of the US. Utter crap.
Presumably he would criticize the Welsh & Scots for not calling themselves British.
Still think it's a bunch of politician crappola.
Why? because he tells us all to defy our human nature to define ourselves by our backgrounds & upbringing before the place we choose to live. He goes further and labels people that do as a traitors to the United States. I think it's utter crap to label folks that call themselves Afro-American, Japanese-American, Italian-American, Chinese-American etc as traitors that should not be trusted to vote in the best interests of the US. Utter crap.
Presumably he would criticize the Welsh & Scots for not calling themselves British.
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RonO
Thanks, I did think it might be a misunderstanding.
I feel I should explain the "Cricket Test". Lord Tebbit - renowned ultra Right-wing peer - suggested that one can tell if someone is truly integrated to their addopted community, especially at the second generation, by who they support at cricket or, indeed, any other sport. So, those Britons who support Pakistan are not sufficiently integrated with their home community. It's a slightly weak proposition, but I'm sure you can see why it can be considered an indicator of whether someone is adopting Britain as their home nation (especially if they've been born and raised there!).
The point about Scots and Welsh people doesn't really hold water because we are a United Kingdom and those nations (with England and Northern Ireland) are by their nature British anyway. I'm a Briton, and equally I'm an Englishman. It's up to me to choose which I describe myself as. I would no more claim that someone who identifies as Scottish doesn't conform to British culture than I'd claim the same about a Hawaiian and US culture. They're all part of the same thing.
Thanks, I did think it might be a misunderstanding.
I feel I should explain the "Cricket Test". Lord Tebbit - renowned ultra Right-wing peer - suggested that one can tell if someone is truly integrated to their addopted community, especially at the second generation, by who they support at cricket or, indeed, any other sport. So, those Britons who support Pakistan are not sufficiently integrated with their home community. It's a slightly weak proposition, but I'm sure you can see why it can be considered an indicator of whether someone is adopting Britain as their home nation (especially if they've been born and raised there!).
The point about Scots and Welsh people doesn't really hold water because we are a United Kingdom and those nations (with England and Northern Ireland) are by their nature British anyway. I'm a Briton, and equally I'm an Englishman. It's up to me to choose which I describe myself as. I would no more claim that someone who identifies as Scottish doesn't conform to British culture than I'd claim the same about a Hawaiian and US culture. They're all part of the same thing.
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Sharia Law?
Originally Posted by tablet_eraser
Do I? When have I said that all muslims are terrorists?
Read what I've said carefully before accusing me of xeonophobia or racism, please. I actually said I will accept immigrants who are willing to accept, at the very least, the rule of law. Terrorists do not conform to that very basic requirement. I would rather they were proud of being British, and had the "multiculturalist" agenda not encouraged the ghettoisation of communities I don't think it would be such a problem.
More specificially, I said that the qualities I want to see eradicated are:
Now tell me, should I accept these as valid differences, or wish to see them removed? I don't dislike muslims at all. But I despise the Islamic fundamentalists who want to destroy my culture because "multiculturalism" has given them the space to develop their ideological, pathological hatred of democracy.
Read what I've said carefully before accusing me of xeonophobia or racism, please. I actually said I will accept immigrants who are willing to accept, at the very least, the rule of law. Terrorists do not conform to that very basic requirement. I would rather they were proud of being British, and had the "multiculturalist" agenda not encouraged the ghettoisation of communities I don't think it would be such a problem.
More specificially, I said that the qualities I want to see eradicated are:
Now tell me, should I accept these as valid differences, or wish to see them removed? I don't dislike muslims at all. But I despise the Islamic fundamentalists who want to destroy my culture because "multiculturalism" has given them the space to develop their ideological, pathological hatred of democracy.
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Peter Costello, the Australian Treasurer, sums up my views quite nicely:
Live and let live. But if people try to kill our culture, as I've said over and over again, they need to be dealt with appropriately. Whether they are new to this country or not.
"If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you," he said on national
television.
"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia, one the Australian law and another the Islamic law, that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option," Costello said.
television.
"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia, one the Australian law and another the Islamic law, that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option," Costello said.
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Originally Posted by tablet_eraser
Peter Costello, the Australian Treasurer, sums up my views quite nicely:
Live and let live. But if people try to kill our culture, as I've said over and over again, they need to be dealt with appropriately. Whether they are new to this country or not.
Live and let live. But if people try to kill our culture, as I've said over and over again, they need to be dealt with appropriately. Whether they are new to this country or not.
Ah but it is so subtle sometimes.....MacDonalds, Budweiser, Winstons, Levi's, Ford.....
Wait until KFC has a run of food poisoning!
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Tablet, appreciate the Tebbit explanation. Still think it's nonsense in the same category as Teddy R. We could test it. Have Tebbit come over to a Chicago St Patrick's day and pick a 2nd generation Irishman drapped with an Irish flag drinking green beer and singing Irish songs and tell him that he's a traitor to America. Resulting conversation shouldn't last too long.
Eating MacDonalds doesn't kill you?? I beg to differ
Eating MacDonalds doesn't kill you?? I beg to differ
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SASless
<< Ah but it is so subtle sometimes.....MacDonalds, Budweiser, Winstons, Levi's, Ford.....>>
to which one could add:
women’s liberation,
secular humanism,
debt,
de-industrialisation forcing international interdependence,
de-nationalisation,
overwhelming immigation,
unbridled monopoly capitalism,
and a few other things that change national culture -
Worked on us!
.
Whatever, I wholeheartedly agree with the quote in Tablet eraser’s post::
<< Live and let live. But if people try to kill our culture, as I've said over and over again, they need to be dealt with appropriately. Whether they are new to this country or not.>>
.
(This is meant to be tongue in cheek so don’t get too stirred up.)
<< Ah but it is so subtle sometimes.....MacDonalds, Budweiser, Winstons, Levi's, Ford.....>>
to which one could add:
women’s liberation,
secular humanism,
debt,
de-industrialisation forcing international interdependence,
de-nationalisation,
overwhelming immigation,
unbridled monopoly capitalism,
and a few other things that change national culture -
Worked on us!
.
Whatever, I wholeheartedly agree with the quote in Tablet eraser’s post::
<< Live and let live. But if people try to kill our culture, as I've said over and over again, they need to be dealt with appropriately. Whether they are new to this country or not.>>
.
(This is meant to be tongue in cheek so don’t get too stirred up.)
RonO,
Your referral to the Irishman explains you did not grasp what Teddy said. Your very statement confirms Ol' Teddy....the fellow might be Irish American by heritage but when one suggests he is a traitor to America by singing along with Tommy Makem and the Clancy Brothers.....and thumps the accuser....then that is as Teddy called it. Be what you want to be....but your first allegiance is to your flag and country.
He isn't upset you called him Irish, drunk, a bad singer, but kicked yer butt because you suggested he was not a true American.
You understand the concept but are having some problems seeing it through.
Your referral to the Irishman explains you did not grasp what Teddy said. Your very statement confirms Ol' Teddy....the fellow might be Irish American by heritage but when one suggests he is a traitor to America by singing along with Tommy Makem and the Clancy Brothers.....and thumps the accuser....then that is as Teddy called it. Be what you want to be....but your first allegiance is to your flag and country.
He isn't upset you called him Irish, drunk, a bad singer, but kicked yer butt because you suggested he was not a true American.
You understand the concept but are having some problems seeing it through.
modtinbasher,
What on earth are you prattling on about?
“When we are all living under Sha’ria law?” There is less chance of that happening in any western democracy than there is of the Liberal Democrats coming to power in the UK!
As for it being discussed “by our multiculturist leaders as we speak” I think that has to be perhaps the most inaccurate, deluded and misinformed statement that I have ever seen on the many pages of pprune, and that is saying something!
Do you realise what a small percentage of the UK population is made up of practicing Muslims? And that within that tiny minority the percentage who practice one or other of the many variations of Sha’ria law is even smaller so as to be almost infinitesimal!
It WILL come to pass? What utter nonsense!
If our “beloved leaders” (your words NOT mine!) capitulated to the IRA then how come that there is not currently a Marxist/Socialist Government ruling over a united Ireland with all traces of protestant influence removed? THAT was the aim of the IRA so I can only conclude that you have a very dim understanding of what capitulation actually means!
Your “beloved England” is one of the most successful multicultural democracies on the face of this planet, a process that has been ever evolving and progressing for over a thousand years, long may it continue in such a successful vein!
As for dying a Christian, if you study all of the many and various versions and variants of Sha’ria law you will see that they all have one common theme, that non Muslims living in a state that is ruled by Sha’ria law follow the rules of their own community, are not governed by Sha'ria law, and may worship accordingly. A practice hardly followed by the supposedly pro-western states such as Saudi Arabia!
I also advise you to look much closer to home before you start attacking Sha’ria Law. Try reading the Old Testament and see if you are really living your life according to its dictats……………….
Pr00ne.
What on earth are you prattling on about?
“When we are all living under Sha’ria law?” There is less chance of that happening in any western democracy than there is of the Liberal Democrats coming to power in the UK!
As for it being discussed “by our multiculturist leaders as we speak” I think that has to be perhaps the most inaccurate, deluded and misinformed statement that I have ever seen on the many pages of pprune, and that is saying something!
Do you realise what a small percentage of the UK population is made up of practicing Muslims? And that within that tiny minority the percentage who practice one or other of the many variations of Sha’ria law is even smaller so as to be almost infinitesimal!
It WILL come to pass? What utter nonsense!
If our “beloved leaders” (your words NOT mine!) capitulated to the IRA then how come that there is not currently a Marxist/Socialist Government ruling over a united Ireland with all traces of protestant influence removed? THAT was the aim of the IRA so I can only conclude that you have a very dim understanding of what capitulation actually means!
Your “beloved England” is one of the most successful multicultural democracies on the face of this planet, a process that has been ever evolving and progressing for over a thousand years, long may it continue in such a successful vein!
As for dying a Christian, if you study all of the many and various versions and variants of Sha’ria law you will see that they all have one common theme, that non Muslims living in a state that is ruled by Sha’ria law follow the rules of their own community, are not governed by Sha'ria law, and may worship accordingly. A practice hardly followed by the supposedly pro-western states such as Saudi Arabia!
I also advise you to look much closer to home before you start attacking Sha’ria Law. Try reading the Old Testament and see if you are really living your life according to its dictats……………….
Pr00ne.
Funny how the the Unfit for Purpose Home Office has been relegated to yesterday's news.
Funny how John Reid is permanently on our TV screens talking tough and scaring the sh*t out of us.
I would be interested to know who organised the hastily convened EU Interior Ministers' Conference while B Liar was sipping sundowners in Barbados.
I would be interested to know what "father" Brown thinks about a reformed Scottish Communist hogging the limelight and making like a statesman while speechifying in regretful English.
And just what has the security clamp down acheived, other than chaos?
Funny how John Reid is permanently on our TV screens talking tough and scaring the sh*t out of us.
I would be interested to know who organised the hastily convened EU Interior Ministers' Conference while B Liar was sipping sundowners in Barbados.
I would be interested to know what "father" Brown thinks about a reformed Scottish Communist hogging the limelight and making like a statesman while speechifying in regretful English.
And just what has the security clamp down acheived, other than chaos?
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
modtinbasher,
What on earth are you prattling on about?
“When we are all living under Sha’ria law?” There is less chance of that happening in any western democracy than there is of the Liberal Democrats coming to power in the UK!
As for it being discussed “by our multiculturist leaders as we speak” I think that has to be perhaps the most inaccurate, deluded and misinformed statement that I have ever seen on the many pages of pprune, and that is saying something!
Pr00ne.
What on earth are you prattling on about?
“When we are all living under Sha’ria law?” There is less chance of that happening in any western democracy than there is of the Liberal Democrats coming to power in the UK!
As for it being discussed “by our multiculturist leaders as we speak” I think that has to be perhaps the most inaccurate, deluded and misinformed statement that I have ever seen on the many pages of pprune, and that is saying something!
Pr00ne.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nt/3599264.stm
http://www.youmeworks.com/sharia_canada.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0810/p01s03-woam.html
Be afraid, be very afraid.
[email protected],
Oh for goodness sake, this is getting worse than the Daily Mail!
Why on earth should I, or anyone else for that matter, be in the least bothered by that set of alarmist nonsense?
So, a Muslim lawyer proposed something that was not taken up becasue it doesn't fit canada's constitution, was deeply unpopular and was resisted by various other minority groups? Where on earth is the story in that?
Pure stuff and nonsense!
Be afraid? More like be tempted to have a good giggle!
Oh for goodness sake, this is getting worse than the Daily Mail!
Why on earth should I, or anyone else for that matter, be in the least bothered by that set of alarmist nonsense?
So, a Muslim lawyer proposed something that was not taken up becasue it doesn't fit canada's constitution, was deeply unpopular and was resisted by various other minority groups? Where on earth is the story in that?
Pure stuff and nonsense!
Be afraid? More like be tempted to have a good giggle!
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Do be afraid, the end is .....coming......eventually
Originally Posted by pr00ne
[email protected],
Oh for goodness sake, this is getting worse than the Daily Mail!
Why on earth should I, or anyone else for that matter, be in the least bothered by that set of alarmist nonsense?
So, a Muslim lawyer proposed something that was not taken up becasue it doesn't fit canada's constitution, was deeply unpopular and was resisted by various other minority groups? Where on earth is the story in that?
Pure stuff and nonsense!
Be afraid? More like be tempted to have a good giggle!
Oh for goodness sake, this is getting worse than the Daily Mail!
Why on earth should I, or anyone else for that matter, be in the least bothered by that set of alarmist nonsense?
So, a Muslim lawyer proposed something that was not taken up becasue it doesn't fit canada's constitution, was deeply unpopular and was resisted by various other minority groups? Where on earth is the story in that?
Pure stuff and nonsense!
Be afraid? More like be tempted to have a good giggle!
modtinbasher,
Seeing as the Canadian Minister of Citizenship and Immigration has just launched a campaign to increase the number of immigrants to Canada, especially Atlantic Canada, with special emphasis on Europe, I think you are talking hogwash. As if Quebec would EVER discriminate against white French immigrants, they run their own independent immigration service for heaven sake!
Seeing as the Canadian Minister of Citizenship and Immigration has just launched a campaign to increase the number of immigrants to Canada, especially Atlantic Canada, with special emphasis on Europe, I think you are talking hogwash. As if Quebec would EVER discriminate against white French immigrants, they run their own independent immigration service for heaven sake!
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SASless, apppreciate the kind words about my reading comprehension. Still think you & teddy ain't living in the world I live in. Our Irishman is a lot more complex than you credit. If you think that him living in the US, saluting the flag at school, and singing the anthem at Soldier Field has made him a true patriot then you are sadly mistaken.