Uniform at UK airports
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TIGS2, Well done for buying beer for those lads and, although it would probably be wasted on them, a framed copy of Kipling's Tommy for the pub might be an idea. One other area where military personnel in uniform may be refused service is, of course, our respective messes? Makes you think doesn't it? I was refused entry to the Sgt's mess in the Falklands (mid 80's) when I finished work at about 10pm ish and fancied a quick jar before bed. How many other messes would apply a similar ruling today I wonder?
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Go for it
What security issue could there be for personnel travelling through our own airports in uniform? Is BAA seriously suggesting that if al q'ada knew service personnel were using airports they would become instant targets? Utter hoop.
I'd be more than tempted to disregard this 'security' rule and do it anyway. I defy BAA to 'prosecute' me. They can throw me out if they wish, but my standing in their foyer letting everyone know what the airport's policy towards the UK's service personnel is would be a damn sight more embarrassing for them than me. As for the military regulations - should anyone step forward to enforce this utter b
we would at least be able to pin down who it was that came up with this stupidity in the first place, where it is articulated, who signed off on the ‘regulation’ . . . . . rant, rant, rant 
And another thing - why aren't we allowed to wear uniform to/in MOD? (don't quote security, the fact that you're entering the building might be a clue that you are connected to the UK's military!)
CAS, CGS, CDS - want to know why 85% of Sqn Ldrs stated they would take their option in the next 5 years? (continuous attitude survey 05) - then read this thread and DO something other than pontificate!
I'd be more than tempted to disregard this 'security' rule and do it anyway. I defy BAA to 'prosecute' me. They can throw me out if they wish, but my standing in their foyer letting everyone know what the airport's policy towards the UK's service personnel is would be a damn sight more embarrassing for them than me. As for the military regulations - should anyone step forward to enforce this utter b
we would at least be able to pin down who it was that came up with this stupidity in the first place, where it is articulated, who signed off on the ‘regulation’ . . . . . rant, rant, rant And another thing - why aren't we allowed to wear uniform to/in MOD? (don't quote security, the fact that you're entering the building might be a clue that you are connected to the UK's military!)
CAS, CGS, CDS - want to know why 85% of Sqn Ldrs stated they would take their option in the next 5 years? (continuous attitude survey 05) - then read this thread and DO something other than pontificate!
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Don't blame the political masters, at least not for this one. It is an own goal by the Army and RAF high paid help. As is often the case, the Navy are ahead of the power curve and actually encourage their servicemen and women to be seen in uniform in public. I bet it does great things for their self-respect and for recruiting.
The security rationale for creeping around like grey mice is frankly b*ll*cks. Even when there was a real IRA threat it was counter productive. When I was serving I hated having to disguise myself as a civvy, totally ineffectually as we all came and went from our place of work in full view, short haircuts, lean and mean appearance (I was much younger then!) and carrying a military duffle bag died red or blue or whatever. Didn't do much for our morale and self esteem but must have been great for the opposition to see they had us on the run. We are British soldiers. We should flaunt it proudly.
The security rationale for creeping around like grey mice is frankly b*ll*cks. Even when there was a real IRA threat it was counter productive. When I was serving I hated having to disguise myself as a civvy, totally ineffectually as we all came and went from our place of work in full view, short haircuts, lean and mean appearance (I was much younger then!) and carrying a military duffle bag died red or blue or whatever. Didn't do much for our morale and self esteem but must have been great for the opposition to see they had us on the run. We are British soldiers. We should flaunt it proudly.
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Ill second that, I was Disgusted and apallled certainly by the BBC news, the England captains resignation gets seven minutes, two squaddies are killed and the BBC cover it with two minutes of coverage (And yes I did time it). IT makes me sick. I did lodge an offical complaint with the Beeb and Im awaiting my reply. Footballs a game, the war is peoples familes, makes me feel like HM forces are a worthwhile job. I personally am so disillusioned now the govt,media and worst of all the public do not care what happens to the forces, and it saddens me.
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FCP
I agree fully with what you say. Crazy idea but if these overpaid bags of wind that pass as footballers took a huge pay cut down to something sensible (say 50K a year for doing your hobby), the rest of the money could be shovelled into the defence budget. That ought to buy our boys and girls some of the much needed kit required to do their job, which happens to be done for a far smaller wage than the footie freaks get.
I agree fully with what you say. Crazy idea but if these overpaid bags of wind that pass as footballers took a huge pay cut down to something sensible (say 50K a year for doing your hobby), the rest of the money could be shovelled into the defence budget. That ought to buy our boys and girls some of the much needed kit required to do their job, which happens to be done for a far smaller wage than the footie freaks get.
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i was told...
that the reason we have to carry civilian clothing is because our Strat AT flies (sometimes) via the civilian airports in the Middle East, before going back to Blighty - and you could remain in compound (in uniform), or go into town (in civilian attire) - given those options I think bringing some civvies is worth it, as a Crab Air Stalag 18 compound is no fun on return from SANDGHANSITAN!
On the subject of wearing uniform in the UK civil airports, it is worth remembering that active terrorist cells collate information on us military types, so advertising yourself might not be the cleverest move. Shame I know, but the fact remains bad guys want to do bad stuff to us and ours.
On the subject of wearing uniform in the UK civil airports, it is worth remembering that active terrorist cells collate information on us military types, so advertising yourself might not be the cleverest move. Shame I know, but the fact remains bad guys want to do bad stuff to us and ours.
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I don't think the terrible-ist's really give a monkeys who they hit. If they were fussy, the London bombings wouldn't have happened. They won't discriminate, but will keep going till they think it's all finished, and if that means civillians buying the big one to achieve the goal then that's what they'll do. Ba rds.
rds.
Hellbound
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Originally Posted by deskpushinshiney@rse
On the subject of wearing uniform in the UK civil airports, it is worth remembering that active terrorist cells collate information on us military types, so advertising yourself might not be the cleverest move. Shame I know, but the fact remains bad guys want to do bad stuff to us and ours.
I think it is a huge shame we don't wear it in public a bit more, was fairly downcast when I stopped to help a lady change a wheel and she thought I was a RAC man in my No 2s....
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however comma
you're not a bad guy so you have balls. they won't sit outside the military base as it is considered a hard target, taking us (or civilians) in a civil airport is considered a soft target, making it easier for them to get their ration of virgins in the next life (or so they think).
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Originally Posted by South Bound
I think it is a huge shame we don't wear it in public a bit more, was fairly downcast when I stopped to help a lady change a wheel and she thought I was a RAC man in my No 2s....
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that the reason we have to carry civilian clothing is because our Strat AT flies (sometimes) via the civilian airports in the Middle East, before going back to Blighty - and you could remain in compound (in uniform), or go into town (in civilian attire) - given those options I think bringing some civvies is worth it, as a Crab Air Stalag 18 compound is no fun on return from SANDGHANSITAN!
If you think you are more at risk going through UK airports in Uniform, to travelling around 'down town' in certain Middle Eastern countrys in Civvies then think again. Frankly, having survived a tour on Ops in Iraq or Afghanistan, i would much rather stay in the compound whilst waiting the next flight, and ensure i got home safely to my family.
We are misinterpreting the threat, and allowing the terrorist to do what they want i.e surpress our lifestyle. Airports are soft targets you say - or are they??. They haven't attacked one yet. An airport is actually a 'harder target than a military base in many respects, look how many armed coppers are on duty at any one time! Far more than at any military base. If a terrorist were going to attack an airport, they will attack one, regardsless of whos walking through in whatever attire. But they tend not to because they are full of armed police. Furthermore, if i were waiting to attack, the site of 20-100 military uniformed guys coming through the airport would scare me s*****ss. Not all terrorists are suicide bombers. Just like the IRA they plan with precision and if they dont have a reliable escape plan they are unlikely to do the job, because they want to live.
It's no wonder the government can axe the armed forces, with sweeping redundencies and cutbacks with little or no response from Joe Public, because Joe Public doesn't know we exist apart from Two minutes a day on the news. Try cutting 10, 000 jobs from Ford or Honda and see how much that hits the papers. The government don't want anything that will raise our profile/popularity with the public, because it would make life to difficult for them when they try to axe us.
Get the uniforms on!
Hellbound
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Tigs
Hoorah, too right matey.
We need to make people proud to wear their uniforms, proud of doing something different for a living, proud of the immense commitment every 17/18 year old is making when they join up and learn to use a rifle.
Pride is difficult for many when they have seen so many changes, but the guys and girls on the ground on ops are just the same as those that have gone before, and recent events have shown us that people still die on ops as they have done since combat was invented. While we remain in the Services we should remain proud of what we are and what we do, we should wear our uniforms wherever we can and not hide away.
That is difficult for a generation that has been told to hide away because of the IRA threat and one that keeps being told that the overtly proud American way is well over the top and not the way it should be done. But that is tosh and we must try to grow proud of who we are and what we do.
Personally, whenever I feel self-conscious walking down the high street, I just think to myself about all the places I have been that they will never go; all the experiences I have shared that they cannot; all the friends I have, the relationships they will never understand;and the things I have seen that they should be grateful they will never have to see because I am there. And I am proud.
Really sorry to all those that are throwing up, but I really do not see what is wrong with wanting to feel like that about my job. If Joe Public doesn't like it, stuff him.
Hoorah, too right matey.
We need to make people proud to wear their uniforms, proud of doing something different for a living, proud of the immense commitment every 17/18 year old is making when they join up and learn to use a rifle.
Pride is difficult for many when they have seen so many changes, but the guys and girls on the ground on ops are just the same as those that have gone before, and recent events have shown us that people still die on ops as they have done since combat was invented. While we remain in the Services we should remain proud of what we are and what we do, we should wear our uniforms wherever we can and not hide away.
That is difficult for a generation that has been told to hide away because of the IRA threat and one that keeps being told that the overtly proud American way is well over the top and not the way it should be done. But that is tosh and we must try to grow proud of who we are and what we do.
Personally, whenever I feel self-conscious walking down the high street, I just think to myself about all the places I have been that they will never go; all the experiences I have shared that they cannot; all the friends I have, the relationships they will never understand;and the things I have seen that they should be grateful they will never have to see because I am there. And I am proud.
Really sorry to all those that are throwing up, but I really do not see what is wrong with wanting to feel like that about my job. If Joe Public doesn't like it, stuff him.
... and broadening the scope a little bit - how about having everyone who works in MOD / Abbey Wood etc wear uniform. If nothing else it would help differentiate between the military and the civil servants (although the long hair and open toed sandals of the later may be a give away). Irritates me to see our Lords and Masters being interviewed in their best M&S suits!
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South Bound
I agree. If there is one thing in common that EVERY serviceman has, the one thing that binds them together in doing a job that takes you away from home, isn't particularly well paid considering you are put in harms way, demands total loyalty and comittment from you 24/7, and demands that under the most difficult, adverse conditions you perform your job selflessley to the absolute best of your ability it is PRIDE - PROFESSIONAL PRIDE. Its the thing that gives a young soldier the courage to die trying to save his mates or downed crew (even more recently trying to save the bodies of downed crew). In the UK like it or not it is knowing we took the Queens Shilling, I am sure the US armed forces have a similar concept.
When we all graduated from our training schools, we all stood on parade in uniform and felt as proud as you ever have done in your life (do you all remember that feeling? it was the best). I now feel just as proud of the young guys who are going into harms way far earlier in their career than i ever did in a cold war scenario. Is it two much to ask that as a nation, we recognise the achievments and sacrifice of these people.
Remember the sacrifice is often great, not only death and injury, but for many, more routinely, the fact that so much time away from home invariabley leads to relationship and family problems. I, like many of my peer group, sweated blood and tears for my uniform, and it cost me my family. The pressure on Spouses of , girlfriends and boyfriends of, is immense. To be told that i must sneak in and out of airports, full of the people we are trying to save is outrageous. If you are a member of 22 Reg or the SBS, then fair enough, but the majority of us should be able to fly our flag for the rest of those who cannot. Still, in a country where we consider it antagonistic to fly our own national flags, what hope do we have. Try telling a US marine to take down the flag he flys in his front garden and he will likely kill you with his bare hands.
To CDS and CAS etc. We accept that the government will force cuts upon you, but please do not let them take away what we are about, our pride, our loyalty our sense of belonging. Dont let them make us feel like second class citizens for protecting our country, because i know that all of our people may not be angels (Wars are not one by angels), but they are all first class citizens. You gentlemen of all people can tell the Defense Secretary to shove it, when he/they suggest we must go around in civilian attire.
I agree. If there is one thing in common that EVERY serviceman has, the one thing that binds them together in doing a job that takes you away from home, isn't particularly well paid considering you are put in harms way, demands total loyalty and comittment from you 24/7, and demands that under the most difficult, adverse conditions you perform your job selflessley to the absolute best of your ability it is PRIDE - PROFESSIONAL PRIDE. Its the thing that gives a young soldier the courage to die trying to save his mates or downed crew (even more recently trying to save the bodies of downed crew). In the UK like it or not it is knowing we took the Queens Shilling, I am sure the US armed forces have a similar concept.
When we all graduated from our training schools, we all stood on parade in uniform and felt as proud as you ever have done in your life (do you all remember that feeling? it was the best). I now feel just as proud of the young guys who are going into harms way far earlier in their career than i ever did in a cold war scenario. Is it two much to ask that as a nation, we recognise the achievments and sacrifice of these people.
Remember the sacrifice is often great, not only death and injury, but for many, more routinely, the fact that so much time away from home invariabley leads to relationship and family problems. I, like many of my peer group, sweated blood and tears for my uniform, and it cost me my family. The pressure on Spouses of , girlfriends and boyfriends of, is immense. To be told that i must sneak in and out of airports, full of the people we are trying to save is outrageous. If you are a member of 22 Reg or the SBS, then fair enough, but the majority of us should be able to fly our flag for the rest of those who cannot. Still, in a country where we consider it antagonistic to fly our own national flags, what hope do we have. Try telling a US marine to take down the flag he flys in his front garden and he will likely kill you with his bare hands.
To CDS and CAS etc. We accept that the government will force cuts upon you, but please do not let them take away what we are about, our pride, our loyalty our sense of belonging. Dont let them make us feel like second class citizens for protecting our country, because i know that all of our people may not be angels (Wars are not one by angels), but they are all first class citizens. You gentlemen of all people can tell the Defense Secretary to shove it, when he/they suggest we must go around in civilian attire.
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Quick (and inflamatory) question:
If MOB Main Building has the function of the nation's highest military HQ, why don't the military officers who work there wear uniform like those who work in the subordinate military HQs?
If MOB Main Building has the function of the nation's highest military HQ, why don't the military officers who work there wear uniform like those who work in the subordinate military HQs?
Hellbound
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DPSA
you know, in London and some of the big cities you are probably right and that is very very sad. What a crap country we live in where the very people that protect a population's freedom of speech/religion/political extremes are not safe to wear ones work clothes out of work.
Think I shall go somewhere else where I am wanted.
you know, in London and some of the big cities you are probably right and that is very very sad. What a crap country we live in where the very people that protect a population's freedom of speech/religion/political extremes are not safe to wear ones work clothes out of work.
Think I shall go somewhere else where I am wanted.