Future Carrier (Including Costs)

[Geriaviator]

Apologies to mods if this needs moved but after reading the preceding posts I couldn't resist it!​​​​​​​

[helispotter]

Originally Posted by ancientaviator62

Ah but the UK is notorious for not specifying that any new kit is air transportable or at least not needing to look like an unmade Airfix kit to be transported. I give you but one example.

Puma in a Hercules, well impressive that is possible without making it an even more unbuilt kit. Puma fairs somewhat better in a C5 or C17 with less disassembly required.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Originally Posted by Biggus

BBC now reporting the Wildcats will be in theatre before HMS Dragon, so presumably they're going by C-17.

Yes - Wildcats transported by C-17A - 2 already there today.

You Tube

[Asturias56]

Originally Posted by Biggus

The latest comment from John Healey is that Dragon will arrive in "the next couple of weeks", implying she won't be leaving soon, and laying the ground for a delayed departure announcement.

It beggards belief

We can't send anything it seems without a months notice....... no carrier, no T45.

And worse it shows we can't even find a working T45 to park in the Thames if London was threatened. Years of mis spending, low spending and delay coming home to roost

[langleybaston]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

It beggards belief

We can't send anything it seems without a months notice....... no carrier, no T45.

And worse it shows we can't even find a working T45 to park in the Thames if London was threatened. Years of mis spending, low spending and delay coming home to roost

Is not London threatened now Starmer has slid a little off the fence? Think assymetrical.

[petit plateau]

Originally Posted by langleybaston

Is not London threatened now Starmer has slid a little off the fence? Think assymetrical.

Exactly. Some folk seem to think the T45 only have a war role a long way from home.

[Asturias56]

Its criminal that the only real missile defence the uk has are the T45's. Especially when several dozen others seem to have at least a basic system in place.

it absolutely is beyond all belief that we can't even mobilise any T45 at short notice.. for London or Cyprus or anywhere.

This is the result of 35 years if sticking the collecrive head in the sand

[typerated]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

Its criminal that the only real missile defence the uk has are the T45's. Especially when several dozen others seem to have at least a basic system in place.

it absolutely is beyond all belief that we can't even mobilise any T45 at short notice.. for London or Cyprus or anywhere.

This is the result of 35 years if sticking the collecrive head in the sand

And the carrier advocates didnt see this coming?

[Not_a_boffin]

Originally Posted by typerated

And the carrier advocates didnt see this coming?

That's a new one! Now "the carriers" are to blame for successive governments looking at the conventional missile threat to London and deciding not to acquire GBAD systems.

I'm still bemused as to why a T45 is being tasked to provide AD for the RAFs premier Med airbase. Given the threat appears to be primarily OWAS from Hezbollah, not sure what a T45 brings that a Sky Sabre battery from the RA doesn't.

But still, bloody carriers, eh?

[Expatrick]

Somebody mentioned HMS Victory, for London I would have thought HMS Belfast would do nicely!

[ORAC]

https://x.com/Gabriel64869839/status...800590281?s=20

​​​​​​​Inocea announces they have formally taken over WAVE RULER today, with WAVE KNIGHT to follow.

Inocea will now re-activate them to offer their services under class and flag‑state requirement.

Sigh.

​​​​​​​

[Geriaviator]

With all this civvyfication I've suggested to our local aviation society that we recommission and lease back our Phantom, Tornado, Sea Hawk and Buccaneer for the duration. Come to think of it, as the Hawks are nearing the end, would anyone need a Chipmunk as well?

[typerated]

Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin

That's a new one! Now "the carriers" are to blame for successive governments looking at the conventional missile threat to London and deciding not to acquire GBAD systems.

But still, bloody carriers, eh?

Not quite. I was talking about lack of destroyers/ frigates . There was a strong argument at the time that the carriers would soak up a too big a chunk not only of the RN's budget but also manpower. All things being equal we could have had many more destroyers/frigates in their place. The navy had eyes too big for their budget. The poor readiness of the RN is at least partly a consequence of their pushing to get the two carriers.

If the carrier decision was happening today they would be canx immediately.

[Not_a_boffin]

Originally Posted by typerated

Not quite. I was talking about lack of destroyers/ frigates . There was a strong argument at the time that the carriers would soak up a too big a chunk not only of the RN's budget but also manpower. All things being equal we could have had many more destroyers/frigates in their place. The navy had eyes too big for their budget. The poor readiness of the RN is at least partly a consequence of their pushing to get the two carriers.

If the carrier decision was happening today they would be canx immediately.

The lack of destroyers and frigates is a consequence of two things. Deferral of the FSC programme twice in the noughties (which has exposed the limited design life of the T23) and the pitifully poor productivity of the Clyde especially and Rosyth. The manpower issue is down to pinch point trades and lack of sea drafts, not the carriers which absorb just about the same as their much smaller predecessors.

It remains incongruous to say the least, that the RN is copping flak because the premier RAF base in the Med has been left unhardened and undefended while our most expensive tacair assets are deployed there.

I expect that's the fault of those vulnerable carriers too......

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin

I'm still bemused as to why a T45 is being tasked to provide AD for the RAFs premier Med airbase. Given the threat appears to be primarily OWAS from Hezbollah, not sure what a T45 brings that a Sky Sabre battery from the RA doesn't.

Indeed.
You'd have thought a RA battery would have been deployed with the six F-35B's at the same time.
You'd have thought Akrotiri would have a Sky Sabre battery as a full time deployment anyway.....but, I suppose the bean counters don't see it as important. I still can't grasp why its no longer a RAFR task.

[Geriaviator]

@Not a boffin

and the pitifully poor productivity of the Clyde especially and Rosyth

Yep, a disaster zone, yet if I remember right a Labour govt ordered the carriers to give work to its voters. And look at the time and money wasted on the Hebridean ferries. I thought that even the beancounters might have known that large naval vessels need an escort group especially when sent east, but maybe they never heard of Prince of Wales and Repulse ...

[langleybaston]

Neither can I grasp why its no longer a RAFR task. Perhaps it was a consequence of a quid pro quo between services, although what the regiment [or the RAF] might have gained is a mystery
"Force protection but only ground-based enemies"

[Not_a_boffin]

Originally Posted by Geriaviator

@Not a boffin

Yep, a disaster zone, yet if I remember right a Labour govt ordered the carriers to give work to its voters....

An urban myth stemming from Gordon Browns constituency being near Rosyth. In fact, he did his level best to avoid placing the order until a last gasp to save him when PM.

[Biggus]

BBC now reporting that HMS Prince of Wales readiness is being brought forward to 5 days notice to sail.

Relevant, or a PR stunt (like Knighton wearing combats for an interview outside MOD main building to look more warlike?) to make it look like the UK government is more prepared/serious? I guess time will tell.

[Not_a_boffin]

Originally Posted by Biggus

BBC now reporting that HMS Prince of Wales readiness is being brought forward to 5 days notice to sail.

Relevant, or a PR stunt (like Knighton wearing combats for an interview outside MOD main building to look more warlike?) to make it look like the UK government is more prepared/serious? I guess time will tell.

Indeed. I'm going to run out of metallic elements to go with irony if "the plan" is to deploy a carrier to protect a vulnerable land air base against Hez-launched OWAS.

It makes little sense, other than must be seen to do something reaction.