Disillusioned - persuade me to stay?
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Disillusioned - persuade me to stay?
... in the RAF (not PPruNe!).
Let's hear the pros vs the cons (I know exactly what they are, but I wonder whether anyone has a better argument than PMA) ...
Let's hear the pros vs the cons (I know exactly what they are, but I wonder whether anyone has a better argument than PMA) ...
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Reasons to stay in
PRO's
Cheap accom
Free health care
Free dental
Free sports
Good working hours (for some)
Lots of brilliant mates
The odd beano to Aviano
free flying
cheap beer
free phone calls
The bird behind the bar in the wardroom
Thursday night is curry night
Free ressetlement courses
Free moving expenses
They pay for you to drive to work
They pay for you to drive home again
Free tea and coffee at work
Free nutty, crisps at work
Free internet
Embarked aviation
Pays good
CONS
Going to sea
No phones at Sea
No TV at sea
1 Email a day at sea
No internet at sea
you pay for yr coffee, crisps at sea
they dont allow you to go home when yr at sea
No beano's to Aviano
Sea State 7 and above (no flying)
No social life at sea (plenty alongside)
must be some more....I'll keep editing
PRO's
Cheap accom
Free health care
Free dental
Free sports
Good working hours (for some)
Lots of brilliant mates
The odd beano to Aviano
free flying
cheap beer
free phone calls
The bird behind the bar in the wardroom
Thursday night is curry night
Free ressetlement courses
Free moving expenses
They pay for you to drive to work
They pay for you to drive home again
Free tea and coffee at work
Free nutty, crisps at work
Free internet
Embarked aviation
Pays good
CONS
Going to sea
No phones at Sea
No TV at sea
1 Email a day at sea
No internet at sea
you pay for yr coffee, crisps at sea
they dont allow you to go home when yr at sea
No beano's to Aviano
Sea State 7 and above (no flying)
No social life at sea (plenty alongside)
must be some more....I'll keep editing
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I was asked by my boss if I'd recommend the RAF to a friend the other day. "Not if I wanted to keep them as a friend", was my response.
I've had some good times over the years, nearly always down to the people not the service, but unfortunately it seems we are being taken advantage of and the good times will dry up as people find themselves short of time in which to have a laugh.
The old argument is "well its always been like this, just get on with it" but it hasn't always been like this. We have more overseas commitments than we have had for a very long time and they don't seem like they'll be decreasing significantly anytime soon yet the people available to man them are.
Even the lowliest of SAC's now wears multiple hats, whether they be purely trade related or one or more from the many duties outside of our primary role, yet once again the AFPRB has kicked us in the teeth, showing what value it and therefore the government places on the efforts and hard work of the men and women of the Armed Forces.
I will sad in a way to leave in 2007, as I said I've had some good times in the strangest of places all over the world but I feel betrayed by those appointed higher in the food chain to look out for us little people and betrayed by a government that loves to take the plaudits that the Armed Forces gain for them yet show very little love back.
I've had some good times over the years, nearly always down to the people not the service, but unfortunately it seems we are being taken advantage of and the good times will dry up as people find themselves short of time in which to have a laugh.
The old argument is "well its always been like this, just get on with it" but it hasn't always been like this. We have more overseas commitments than we have had for a very long time and they don't seem like they'll be decreasing significantly anytime soon yet the people available to man them are.
Even the lowliest of SAC's now wears multiple hats, whether they be purely trade related or one or more from the many duties outside of our primary role, yet once again the AFPRB has kicked us in the teeth, showing what value it and therefore the government places on the efforts and hard work of the men and women of the Armed Forces.
I will sad in a way to leave in 2007, as I said I've had some good times in the strangest of places all over the world but I feel betrayed by those appointed higher in the food chain to look out for us little people and betrayed by a government that loves to take the plaudits that the Armed Forces gain for them yet show very little love back.
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PRO's
Cheap accom - not anymore. And I live out anyway.
Free health care - I think perhaps, 'more convenient' is more apt.
Free dental - prob THE biggest perk, having just dealt with my son's dentist
Free sports - perhaps ... if you have time
Good working hours (for some) - been on both ends of this one ... happy to work long hours, but not for nothing.
Lots of brilliant mates - all leaving
The odd beano to Aviano - not without tons of hassle
free flying - day to day mundane, then manic as you get shot at - life isn't 2 v 2 doggers anymore.
cheap beer - A GOOD reason, but not one that'll make me stay
free phone calls - never seen those
The bird behind the bar in the wardroom - ditto
Thursday night is curry night - don't live in, so not relevant to me
Free ressetlement courses - underway as we speak ...
Free moving expenses - when they move you (like most other companies)
They pay for you to drive to work - a pittance, but I guess good if live a distance away
They pay for you to drive home again - lucky us
Free tea and coffee at work - crap coffee.
Free nutty, crisps at work - bizarre, but true.
Free internet - got it at home.
Embarked aviation - hmmm
Pays good - not for being shot at and treated like *&%$, while spending more than half the yr out of the country!
Southside, I commend you for taking the time ... PMA forgot to mention the free coffee in our last chat!
Cheap accom - not anymore. And I live out anyway.
Free health care - I think perhaps, 'more convenient' is more apt.
Free dental - prob THE biggest perk, having just dealt with my son's dentist
Free sports - perhaps ... if you have time
Good working hours (for some) - been on both ends of this one ... happy to work long hours, but not for nothing.
Lots of brilliant mates - all leaving
The odd beano to Aviano - not without tons of hassle
free flying - day to day mundane, then manic as you get shot at - life isn't 2 v 2 doggers anymore.
cheap beer - A GOOD reason, but not one that'll make me stay
free phone calls - never seen those
The bird behind the bar in the wardroom - ditto
Thursday night is curry night - don't live in, so not relevant to me
Free ressetlement courses - underway as we speak ...
Free moving expenses - when they move you (like most other companies)
They pay for you to drive to work - a pittance, but I guess good if live a distance away
They pay for you to drive home again - lucky us
Free tea and coffee at work - crap coffee.
Free nutty, crisps at work - bizarre, but true.
Free internet - got it at home.
Embarked aviation - hmmm
Pays good - not for being shot at and treated like *&%$, while spending more than half the yr out of the country!
Southside, I commend you for taking the time ... PMA forgot to mention the free coffee in our last chat!
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...hmmm..lol. There is a common theme here. Firstly you don't like getting shot at...well, we can all echo that sentiment but to be honest, if it came as a surprise to you that the bad guys would shoot at you then maybe a military career isn't for you.....
and secondly, you don't like the coffee. Why don't you get nicer coffee then. Surely you are not gonna tell me that the RAF even dictate which brand of coffee you choose to drink.?
I live out as well but can still manage to go for a ruby with the boys on a Thursday
but the rest of them....fair call...!!!!
and secondly, you don't like the coffee. Why don't you get nicer coffee then. Surely you are not gonna tell me that the RAF even dictate which brand of coffee you choose to drink.?
I live out as well but can still manage to go for a ruby with the boys on a Thursday
but the rest of them....fair call...!!!!
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Hard Decisions to make!
Reasons to stay:
Job Security - You know, more or less, how much time you are certain of employment
Friendship - lots of like-minded individuals
Pay - not bad - see first point
Pension - secure, (but not awesome compared to some) (wouldn't advise people to join for new scheme though!)
CEA - Good deal.
Reasons to depart:
Absence: Too much time away
Good deals: Seem to get less and less (Travel, allowances etc)
Op Tours: Seem to get more and more
Equipment: Bad and getting worse (take a look at DPAs current track record!)
(probably my biggest gripe!)
JPA: Admin burden may increase (I stand to be corrected with this one)
Flying: Don't know that many really happy fliers, aware that they exist though Southside!
Poor Leadership: See all of the above.
Poor prospects: For all but the chosen few (May just be a generational thing!) and , of course, Yes men.
Triv: On a constant increase
Feeling valued: Just don't anymore (again, could be a personal problem on my part)
Uncertainty: too much change, too quickly
I've had a reasonable 21 years, haven't yet made a final decision, but starting to feel its time to go. I too will be sad, as the RAF I joined was a hoot. Not sure that there's a lot of alternatives out there though (that would be a vastly different proposition, could be that all of our society stinks at the moment), except maybe starting your own business (Risky!).
Overall feeling: Negative and descending fast!!
And please don't say: "if you don't like it leave!" I think my time served deserves more understanding than that!!!
Job Security - You know, more or less, how much time you are certain of employment
Friendship - lots of like-minded individuals
Pay - not bad - see first point
Pension - secure, (but not awesome compared to some) (wouldn't advise people to join for new scheme though!)
CEA - Good deal.
Reasons to depart:
Absence: Too much time away
Good deals: Seem to get less and less (Travel, allowances etc)
Op Tours: Seem to get more and more
Equipment: Bad and getting worse (take a look at DPAs current track record!)
(probably my biggest gripe!)JPA: Admin burden may increase (I stand to be corrected with this one)
Flying: Don't know that many really happy fliers, aware that they exist though Southside!
Poor Leadership: See all of the above.
Poor prospects: For all but the chosen few (May just be a generational thing!) and , of course, Yes men.
Triv: On a constant increase
Feeling valued: Just don't anymore (again, could be a personal problem on my part)
Uncertainty: too much change, too quickly
I've had a reasonable 21 years, haven't yet made a final decision, but starting to feel its time to go. I too will be sad, as the RAF I joined was a hoot. Not sure that there's a lot of alternatives out there though (that would be a vastly different proposition, could be that all of our society stinks at the moment), except maybe starting your own business (Risky!).
Overall feeling: Negative and descending fast!!
And please don't say: "if you don't like it leave!" I think my time served deserves more understanding than that!!!
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Your right of course. Things have changed....some for the good...some not so good. The Flying has certainly changed...gone are the days of wazzing along the severn corridor and seeing if you were brave enough to go under the bridge... gone are the days of seeing if you could put a wheel on top of the Humber bridge...
even the weapons and stores we carry have all gone...no more 1/2" recce flares....ever tried to lob a marker marine out at FL100 and seeing if you could beat it down....formation autorotations...fab fun...
Yep, yr right....some of the fun has gone...but there is still plenty to be had... just have to look harder
even the weapons and stores we carry have all gone...no more 1/2" recce flares....ever tried to lob a marker marine out at FL100 and seeing if you could beat it down....formation autorotations...fab fun...
Yep, yr right....some of the fun has gone...but there is still plenty to be had... just have to look harder
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Originally Posted by southside
...hmmm..lol. There is a common theme here. Firstly you don't like getting shot at...well, we can all echo that sentiment but to be honest, if it came as a surprise to you that the bad guys would shoot at you then maybe a military career isn't for you.....
Originally Posted by southside
and secondly, you don't like the coffee. Why don't you get nicer coffee then. Surely you are not gonna tell me that the RAF even dictate which brand of coffee you choose to drink.?
Originally Posted by L J R
Anyone got some rose coloured glasses for sale, I'm kinda short of 'em here.
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You do have to ask why there are a few Typhoon guys leaving the Airforce? Some have not been persuaded to stay, which to me indicates a steady decline?
Had a good 16 years but off to fly big fun buses which go on time and don't go to the Falklands (yet anyway!)
Had a good 16 years but off to fly big fun buses which go on time and don't go to the Falklands (yet anyway!)
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Originally Posted by Testingtheseatlimit
And please don't say: "if you don't like it leave!" I think my time served deserves more understanding than that!!!
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Originally Posted by Sandy Wings
You do have to ask why there are a few Typhoon guys leaving the Airforce? Some have not been persuaded to stay, which to me indicates a steady decline?
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Southside has friends?
Is southside really trying to convice people on this forum that he has enough freinds to go out for a curry with, i mean he says some extravagent things but this has to take the biscuit.
As for the PRO's versus CON's ,humour aside, there is a distinct lack of PRO's anymore. As the government needs more money for schools, hospitals, asylum seekers the military will become a bank to withdraw for their new policies. The basic fact is that the amount of votes the military has does not make the difference in an election anymore compared to these other areas.
It has made me see that the future is decidedly not rosey for the forces and made me decide that a better quality of life available in the civilian world. I would say however that the flying available in the forces is 100 times better than civi' land but there is a lot of baggage that comes along with it.
P.S L J R i think i know somebody with quite a large supply, might be at sea though!
As for the PRO's versus CON's ,humour aside, there is a distinct lack of PRO's anymore. As the government needs more money for schools, hospitals, asylum seekers the military will become a bank to withdraw for their new policies. The basic fact is that the amount of votes the military has does not make the difference in an election anymore compared to these other areas.
It has made me see that the future is decidedly not rosey for the forces and made me decide that a better quality of life available in the civilian world. I would say however that the flying available in the forces is 100 times better than civi' land but there is a lot of baggage that comes along with it.
P.S L J R i think i know somebody with quite a large supply, might be at sea though!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
"They pay you to get to work and home again."
This is a perk that only the forces get?
Years ago the BBC guys flying with us wanted to get the air miles covered in the trip so they could claim the mileage.
Pilot, can't remember if he was Vulcans or Nimrods, initials PZ, got a job as a company pilot. They paid him for 50 miles each way regardless of where he lived.
Flt Eng, left ISK, joined BA, lived in Nairn and commuted to LHR.
And so on.
This is a perk that only the forces get?
Years ago the BBC guys flying with us wanted to get the air miles covered in the trip so they could claim the mileage.
Pilot, can't remember if he was Vulcans or Nimrods, initials PZ, got a job as a company pilot. They paid him for 50 miles each way regardless of where he lived.
Flt Eng, left ISK, joined BA, lived in Nairn and commuted to LHR.
And so on.
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Strikes me that the Brit forces are re-visiting a lot of places that were first visited way back in the thirties - I would imagine that life in these lands was far tougher in those days.
In the late thirties your government got you into a lot bigger ****fight than you are in now with many more casualties.
Governments since forever have been despatching the troops forth to do their bidding - nothing will change in the furure.
I think a lot of you approached service life with rose-coloured glasses (maybe the glasses were given to you by the recruiters!) and didn't really think of the possible consequences of joining up.
To quote-
"If you can't take a joke you should not have joined" and "(Service) life wasn't meant to be easy".
GAGS
E86
In the late thirties your government got you into a lot bigger ****fight than you are in now with many more casualties.
Governments since forever have been despatching the troops forth to do their bidding - nothing will change in the furure.
I think a lot of you approached service life with rose-coloured glasses (maybe the glasses were given to you by the recruiters!) and didn't really think of the possible consequences of joining up.
To quote-
"If you can't take a joke you should not have joined" and "(Service) life wasn't meant to be easy".
GAGS
E86
Gatvol
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Dont know much about Retirement from the Brit side but I will say that in the U.S. the biggest drain on finances is Health Care. I think my lucky stars that I stayed in the reserves after some years active as I am now old enough to get a small check, but also Health Care for my family. Its worth at least the minimum time you need to retire. From there your usually young enough to get other jobs and with a military backround some folks think you have a bit more discipline (not necessarily in my case, but)
I also see a lot of Brits in South Africa tending to Medical needs, so that must say something for things there.
Life is all about choices, heres hoping yours turn out OK.
I also see a lot of Brits in South Africa tending to Medical needs, so that must say something for things there.
Life is all about choices, heres hoping yours turn out OK.