Use of ex-Service rank titles

[LFittNI]

I'd like to know what other PPRuNers think about this.
It seems to me (strictly on the basis of a non-scientific survey) that the use of ex-service titles is becoming more and more widespread. There always used to be the archetypal Group Captain Binky Huckerback in the obligatory rose festooned cottage, but these retired affectations seem to be spreading wider and wider.
Why on earth do people think, as presumably they do, that this confers some sort of cache' in ex-service life? Fine, I suppose, if they want to chat up the Dame Celia Molestrangler equivalent, but when they want a job?
I have employed, and interviewed, a fair number of ex-RAF officers and NCO's. None of the ex-NCO's, following custom and practice, use their service ranks, but an increasing number of ex-officers do. I admit to becoming quite jaundiced about this and have developed a little teasing routine on the lines of:-
ex-officer: "Hello, I'm Group Captain Smith"
Me: "Hello....what a strange Christian name you have"
This produces a highly satisfactory stunned look, which throws them off their guard nicely so that we can begin the interview.

[Milt]

LFittN1

And then you introduce yourself as the Tea Lady do you?

[The Helpful Stacker]

Originally Posted by Milt

LFittN1
And then you introduce yourself as the Tea Lady do you?

Oh come on, he's got a point.

Group Captain is almost the equivalent of being a managing director these days but you'd hardly go around introducing yourself as 'Managing Director Smythe' to people would you (unless at work)?

Be proud of your time served but for Christ sake, let it go. Next thing you know you'll be that drunk fellow in the corner at the Kings Head everyone calls 'the Major'.

[jayteeto]

Why not?? I don't personally, but you earn the right to do it if you want to. It is something to be proud of, so don't slag them off for their service history and pride in their achievements. The US are proud of their ex-servicemen and women and people show it in public. This attitude stinks, should WW2 veterans stop wearing their medals in case people think they are showing off, or maybe ask the Chelsea pensioners to wear tracksuits.

[uknasa]

"Group Captain is almost the equivalent of being a managing director these days"

Clearly never worked in the real world Helpful Stacker!!

[PPRuNe Pop]

I think you will find it was Captain and above. However, I would have thought fewer people do it now than used to. Especially as first names are used more and more.

[Bertie Thruster]

I'm pleased to observe that the drunk fellow in the corner is usually "the Major" but never "the Squadron Leader"

[The Helpful Stacker]

Originally Posted by uknasa

"Group Captain is almost the equivalent of being a managing director these days"
Clearly never worked in the real world Helpful Stacker!!

Oh course, silly me. I meant Group Captain was almost the equivalent of tea boy these days, what with the seemingly unstoppable growth of the officer classes these days.

More air ranked officers than flying sqn's, yes please.

Picture the scene, RAF Sleepy On the Snooze in the year 2020. Group Captain I/C MT CES Store attempts to tell one of the 12 Sqn Ldr's on shift to clean a car......

[Controversial Tim]

Hardly surprising. I mean, who on earth would want to admit to being an ex-NCO?

[petitfromage]

Actually I think Deliverance is correct......if memory serves Queens Regulations state that if you attain the rank of MAJ, LTCDR or SQNLDR (or above) you may elect to use it as a title and form of address for life.

Someone please dig up the exact wording?

LFittNI.......if you have 'issues' with it, or some sort of complex (?) the answer is clear. You should take it up with Her Majesty! (As you are clearly superior, witty and clever, Im sure you have a direct line? )

Tall poppy syndrome..... Why is this an issue worthy of a thread?

[The Helpful Stacker]

Originally Posted by Controversial Tim

Hardly surprising. I mean, who on earth would want to admit to being an ex-NCO?

Or rather who would feel so ill-prepared for life outside the RAF than those who choose to use their previous job title in an attempt to impress someone enough to give them some sort of job to keep them out of trouble?

[Tex37]

I for one wouldn't introduce myself as the technical director of xxx ltd if I had left. Why should it be different for ex military? If I earn a title in one job then when I change jobs I have to prove myself and earn my position, when I leave - it's gone.

Also many of the (younger) public don't have much comprehension of military titles anyway so it means nothing to them.

Sure I don't want to disparage any former military personel ,especially those who have fought for countries etc they have made a great sacrifice in what they have done, but credit where credit is due.

[Gus T Breeze]

I'm soon to be an ex-military officer and can't wait to be plain old 'Mr'! I think it's pretentious in the extreme to be addressed by one's former military rank. Generally speaking, it appears that those who hang on to their former life have a vastly over-inflated opinion of their importance in the big scheme of things.

[petitfromage]

Titles, Rank....honestly its not a big deal is it? QRs allow it if one feels so inclined.

Now masquerading as an Officer thats odd......

I recently had dinner with some friends in the good ol'USA. One member of the group (unknown to me prior) was wearing a USN Officers uniform (LTJG, a couple of meaningless ribbons and submariners dolphins)

After a few questions/answers he told me he left the USN 8years ago having done 2/5s of a dog watch in the USN.
He wasnt in the Reserve/Guard.....he just liked wearing his uniform & hat out on the town from time to time.

A quick show of hands from the other guests revealed that they all thought it was wonderful, patriotic and entirely appropriate.

Poor old LFittNI......you'd have kittens old boy!!!

[brickhistory]

Originally Posted by petitfromage

He wasnt in the Reserve/Guard.....he just liked wearing his uniform & hat out on the town from time to time.
A quick show of hands from the other guests revealed that they all thought it was wonderful, patriotic and entirely appropriate.

This guy is/was sad. Unless he's still connected in some way (and even then it should be some sort of appropriate social function), then's he's just a sad, old wanna-be. (As well as illegal as well.)

My opinion, fwiw, is the rank is for when serving. After retirement, (which is only a couple more years!), it's a nice accomplishment to tuck into the memories - then MOVE ON!

[bushbolox]

generally speaking this topic is a major issue. As a former captain of industry i find it deplorable you should all be corporally punish with a beating from a rod made of KERNAL shavings. but as you are the first officers to recieve it, it will be done in a private. And then just like rent dodging evictee you will be a left tennant

ps I am pissed sah

[Archimedes]

Originally Posted by Deliverance

I thought Major and above were entitled to use that rank as their titles when they retired. Someone learned like Archimedes would surely know.

I think you meant 'Someone learned or failing that, Archimedes', but I'll give it a shot.

The custom is for those of the rank of Captain and above (and RAF and RN eqivalents) to be allowed to employ their former ranks. ISTR a discussion here some years ago as to whether it was bad form for someone to insist on being called 'Flight Lieutenant Binky Volewarbler' when he was a Flt Lt retired. The conclusion was that a) yes he was and b) he was nevertheless a bit of a t!t for so doing.

Debretts has it that:

Field Marshals remain on the active list for life and so continue to use this rank. Other regular officers of the rank of captain and above may use, and be addressed by, their rank after being placed on the retired list.

The word 'retired' (abbreviated to 'Retd') should not be added after an officer's name in ordinary correspondence or in lists, but only when it is specifically necessary to indicate that an officer is on the retired list, eg, one employed in a civilian capacity in a Ministry of Defence establishment, when it facilitates postal arrangements.'

While I see jayteeto's point, Debrett's suggests that it is usually bad form to use the rank of Captain (or equivalent) on retirement if not being employed in a civilian capacity. Captain Mark Philips is an exception to this, since the origins of it being used came from the press, who referred to him as 'Captain Mark Philips' when he was competing in the 3 Day eventing team. When he was engaged to Princess Anne, the press continued to refer to him as 'Captain Mark Philips'. I believe that he never sought to use the title himself, and referred (and still does?) to himself simply as 'Mark Philips'.

Finally, given that the two most famous civilian Captains are Captains Peacock (are you free, mr Humphries?) and Captain Mainwearing, I'm not sure that it would necessarily be wise for the rank to be used, since it might well be ridiculed... And using rank might be a bad idea now Al-Qa'eda wannabes have attempted to target members of the armed forces (viz the recent case involving a plot against a chap awarded the CGC for his efforts in places sandy), and are probably likely to do so again - not necessarily making the distinction between serving and retired.

[UNCTUOUS]

Out on the Town

Well personally, having been in three different Air Forces, I must admit that I do like dressing up and going out on the town all ranked up. With three different uniforms and eras to choose from, I find that I can mix and match more easily and still achieve that militaria look that was so beloved of Carnaby Street in the late 60's. I also have a wide range of medals and miniatures that I can choose from. My long hair (see below) and the caps and berets are a bit of a challenge though.
.
Of course the sex-change that I had in the middle there somewhere does tend to complicate the wardrobe somewhat. But especially after that sea-change in my life, I have found that I do so much like a man in uniform. It really turns my head.

[henry crun]

There was the case of a wing commander who retired from the RNZAF and moved to a new town and a new house.

He had to fill in a form for his new phone number to be included in the next issue of the local phone book, and he prefixed his name with W/C.
The people who processed the form were obviously confused by this abbreviation because when the new phone book came out there he was J, Smith, welding contractor.

[WorkingHard]

Many years ago I was interviewing for a fairly senior post in my company and the applicant was a retiring Wg Cmdr. When I enquired about his qualification for the job (which had been omitted on his application form) the response was "But I am a Wg Cmdr old chap, that should be all the qualifaction you need" Thank goodness those days are long gone (aren't they?) No one would do that these days!