MT RANT
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Out there
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ha Ha Ha Ha..........................................
Keep it coming girls, Blue Circle Airlines have done themselves proud with this bit of hand bag swinging.
What a gem this thread is, and it reminds me of why i became a civie.
Keep it coming girls, Blue Circle Airlines have done themselves proud with this bit of hand bag swinging.
What a gem this thread is, and it reminds me of why i became a civie.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Tennessee - Smoky Mountains
Age: 55
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
My 2 cents:
This comes down to respect.
Any self respecting SWO or RSM is going to pick up a junior officer for dirty boots. Any complaints from said officer and they will find themselves doing the "Axminster shuffle", receiving career guidance from the CO. Not their direct boss, so embarrassing said boss. It therefore doesn't happen very often.
Said SWO/RSM isn't going to do the same to a 20yrs-in Sqn Ldr/Maj.
Same for MT. Car's in crap order. Plt Offr Bloggs will clean the bloody thing. Sqn Ldr Smith won't. Any MT wallah who insists the Sqn Ldr does it wants shooting. Any MT wallah who doesn't insist the Plt Offr cleans it, similarly wants shooting.
As for those misguided individuals who have equated "doing well at school" with being an Officer, I take pride that those who know better have corrected them. In the specific case of Aircrew, aptitude counts considerably. You can be a duffer at school with (I believe) 5 O levels or whatever they are called now and qualify for an SSC. This has been evidenced by some of the ATROCIOUS grammar and spelling of those posting. You must, however, have the aptitude to be a pilot. This does not imply superior-being status, and certainly not man management skills. However, it isn't possible to climb the greasy pole too high without these skills.
Holier-than-thou attitudes earn a good spading or jerry-canning in your doss bag. Not a mistake to repeat.
I was an Army sergeant. I served on a couple of RAF stations in my time. Two great years of my life. I'd defend the Royal Air Force as much as the Army. It's so sad to see bickering like this thread. Be ashamed gentlemen. Officer or not.
This comes down to respect.
Any self respecting SWO or RSM is going to pick up a junior officer for dirty boots. Any complaints from said officer and they will find themselves doing the "Axminster shuffle", receiving career guidance from the CO. Not their direct boss, so embarrassing said boss. It therefore doesn't happen very often.
Said SWO/RSM isn't going to do the same to a 20yrs-in Sqn Ldr/Maj.
Same for MT. Car's in crap order. Plt Offr Bloggs will clean the bloody thing. Sqn Ldr Smith won't. Any MT wallah who insists the Sqn Ldr does it wants shooting. Any MT wallah who doesn't insist the Plt Offr cleans it, similarly wants shooting.
As for those misguided individuals who have equated "doing well at school" with being an Officer, I take pride that those who know better have corrected them. In the specific case of Aircrew, aptitude counts considerably. You can be a duffer at school with (I believe) 5 O levels or whatever they are called now and qualify for an SSC. This has been evidenced by some of the ATROCIOUS grammar and spelling of those posting. You must, however, have the aptitude to be a pilot. This does not imply superior-being status, and certainly not man management skills. However, it isn't possible to climb the greasy pole too high without these skills.
Holier-than-thou attitudes earn a good spading or jerry-canning in your doss bag. Not a mistake to repeat.
I was an Army sergeant. I served on a couple of RAF stations in my time. Two great years of my life. I'd defend the Royal Air Force as much as the Army. It's so sad to see bickering like this thread. Be ashamed gentlemen. Officer or not.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Several miles SSW of Watford Gap
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sir, with respect, you got it dirty, you clean it (IAW MT orders)
a. The MTO? If this is a junior officer, mod civilian or even a contractor and do they, therefore, have the authority to either issue an order to someone more senior or, in the case of the latter 2, issue and order.
b. The Stn Cdr? If it is then he/she would, most probably, be aircrew. So you can get this thing sorted out in the wonderful aircrew brotherhood (or sisterhood).
c. Anyone in the command chain in between a and b. In which case pick your own subsequent course of action.
Mind you, having picked up corpses and bits of corpses and loaded them onto the back of a lorry, I can't see what all the fuss is about. It's not the worst job in the world.b. The Stn Cdr? If it is then he/she would, most probably, be aircrew. So you can get this thing sorted out in the wonderful aircrew brotherhood (or sisterhood).
c. Anyone in the command chain in between a and b. In which case pick your own subsequent course of action.
The worst job in the world is, of course,
collecting Winston Churchill's bogies
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have just deleted my initial post before submitting because I suspect it would have added some petrol to the flames, and my boss knows who I am on these forums.
To summarise, without the 'due respect' I wouldn't clean anyone's car in the same vein I wouldn't clean their personal weapon!
Would look forward to the orderly room aswell. No doubt followed by the redress.
Gone are the days of subservient oiks. Clean your own car/rifle/hoop!
Bless your exhaust pipe.
It's a laugh in the RAF, us lucky few that got in!
To summarise, without the 'due respect' I wouldn't clean anyone's car in the same vein I wouldn't clean their personal weapon!
Would look forward to the orderly room aswell. No doubt followed by the redress.
Gone are the days of subservient oiks. Clean your own car/rifle/hoop!
Bless your exhaust pipe.
It's a laugh in the RAF, us lucky few that got in!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 1,873
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Climebear, you are nearly correct. MT orders will come under the realm of OC Eng (as was when people knew what was going on). If officers feel the order is inappropriate there are clear and well trodden paths to have it changed. Seems to me that frankly only a very few feel it beneath them (and therefore attempt to change the order) or the SO1 has the policy that if you get it dirty, you clean it, or maybe the lower orders of the officer cadre haven't the energy (or wit) to suggest change other than on this little bunfight. Personally I think a quick trip to the local car wash is well worth while, especially in the winter.
BTW Widger, top pics
BTW Widger, top pics
Perhaps the technique demonstrated by the excellent Jeremy Clarkson should be considered as the optimum method for washing MT vehicles?
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Devon
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a class system within the forces, including the RAF. Moan about it as much as you like, it is there and as officers it is our job to uphold this divide as a pillar of military discipline. Officers are accommodated separately, travel separately and, most of the time, socialise separately from the Men and long may it continue.
Officers are, in general, busier than most. The exception being the swathe of blunties I see fleeing the station at 1645 each and every day. I certainly will not be dictated to by an increasingly large junta of union-men SNCOs that are determined to waste the valuable time of front-line aircrew.
When I return an MT wagon, I will certainly ensure that it is clean inside and all litter is removed, but washing it is not my job. That is for MT Flt to sort out. Perhaps they could do it between cups of tea/games of pool/darts?
Officers are, in general, busier than most. The exception being the swathe of blunties I see fleeing the station at 1645 each and every day. I certainly will not be dictated to by an increasingly large junta of union-men SNCOs that are determined to waste the valuable time of front-line aircrew.
When I return an MT wagon, I will certainly ensure that it is clean inside and all litter is removed, but washing it is not my job. That is for MT Flt to sort out. Perhaps they could do it between cups of tea/games of pool/darts?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The Dark Side
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Remove your fish'n'chip paper/paper cups/used condoms/vomit but apart from that the MT erks clean it.
To the bitter and twisted lower deck personnel on this site - pull your heads in - there is a rank structure in the armed forces and I would say the middle level of this structure, at least in the air forces of the world, do more - take more risks - and have more onerous tasks. An old and bold RAAF rigger once told me - "being in the Air Force is great - the officers are the ones that do all the fighting".
If we had no rank and we were all Misters then I can assure you some Misters would be more senior than others!
And don't get up me for ignoring females - I am trying to pretend they don't exist at the sharp end!
GAGS
E86
To the bitter and twisted lower deck personnel on this site - pull your heads in - there is a rank structure in the armed forces and I would say the middle level of this structure, at least in the air forces of the world, do more - take more risks - and have more onerous tasks. An old and bold RAAF rigger once told me - "being in the Air Force is great - the officers are the ones that do all the fighting".
If we had no rank and we were all Misters then I can assure you some Misters would be more senior than others!
And don't get up me for ignoring females - I am trying to pretend they don't exist at the sharp end!
GAGS
E86
Fat Albert
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wilts, UK
Age: 63
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Forces Class System
Mud Clubber
I agree that there does still appear to be an officer/others class sytem in some areas of the RAF. In general it appears to be upheld by a few pompous @rses like yourself. In this day and age of reduced manning and higher tasking we all have to knuckle down and get on with the job in hand which sometimes means everyone getting their hands dirty.
The vast majority of the officers that I work with wouldn't give your class system the time of day and these officers cover the broad spectrum including aircrew. I also believe that this is representative of the majority of officers in todays RAF
I am all for discipline and leadership but this is born out of respect that is earned it is not a birth right or class system throwback. If you choose to treat all below you in the chain of command like serfs then I am not surprised that you have met with the 'junta of union men SNCOs', they are probably trying to protect their hard working troops from idiots like you.
If the MT orders say wash your car then wash your car, stop bl00dy whingeing and get a life
A NON UNION SNCO
I agree that there does still appear to be an officer/others class sytem in some areas of the RAF. In general it appears to be upheld by a few pompous @rses like yourself. In this day and age of reduced manning and higher tasking we all have to knuckle down and get on with the job in hand which sometimes means everyone getting their hands dirty.
The vast majority of the officers that I work with wouldn't give your class system the time of day and these officers cover the broad spectrum including aircrew. I also believe that this is representative of the majority of officers in todays RAF
I am all for discipline and leadership but this is born out of respect that is earned it is not a birth right or class system throwback. If you choose to treat all below you in the chain of command like serfs then I am not surprised that you have met with the 'junta of union men SNCOs', they are probably trying to protect their hard working troops from idiots like you.
If the MT orders say wash your car then wash your car, stop bl00dy whingeing and get a life
A NON UNION SNCO
I wish people would stop posting on this thread it's making folk look stupid (and many don't need any help on that score).
BTW
off topic but has anyone noticed southsnide dissapeared when tourist restarted postin? Coincidence? We should be told!
I know I know
BTW
off topic but has anyone noticed southsnide dissapeared when tourist restarted postin? Coincidence? We should be told!
I know I know
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MightyGem
Maybe not, but an Army pilot washes his own aircraft! Professional pride.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: in my combat underpants
Age: 53
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have watched this thread with a knowledge of the dirge it would produce. As someone who has actually been an OC MT, I can say you lot moan and whine. Managing the difference between 'want' and 'need' is jolly fun. What you wanted was a gold-plated, mink lined service. What you needed was 4 seats, an engine and some diesel (single fuel concept). It was funny how expectations and variation between want and need increased with the regular working altitude of the customer
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Far from the madding crowd
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr C Hinecap
I have watched this thread with a knowledge of the dirge it would produce. As someone who has actually been an OC MT, I can say you lot moan and whine. Managing the difference between 'want' and 'need' is jolly fun. What you wanted was a gold-plated, mink lined service. What you needed was 4 seats, an engine and some diesel (single fuel concept). It was funny how expectations and variation between want and need increased with the regular working altitude of the customer
If the orders say the driver cleans the vehicle, the driver cleans it, PERIOD.
Ergo, if the high and mighty Sqn Ldr didn't want to wash it then he asks for a driver, if not then he signs the vehicle out knowing full well the MT orders for that Base and complys with them per his annual signature on the afore mentioned MT orders.
Oh yes it's the 'Union Junta' that help to keep you flying Mub Clubber, if you're not happy with that fix then your own jet, if you are so important.
Last edited by Almost_done; 16th Feb 2006 at 23:58.