MT RANT
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I think i have the issue just fine. If it is a matter of fatigue thats fine but as you put it, it was a question of loss of status of serving officers. Do you object to the fact that the cleaning had to be done, or that it had to be done by a Sqn Ldr. 
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This really is the funniest thread I have seen for a long time and to be honest it is showing the RAF as a complete and utter waste of time and money. Why oh why can't you lot organise for a car wash and petrol facilities at the drop off point? It doesnt take much to purchase one of those big car wash machines (the RN have managed to buy them easily enough). Come on boys, rather than mank and moan about life in the light blue why don't you get off your fat shiny ar$e's and do something about it?
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Originally Posted by southside
It doesnt take much to purchase one of those big car wash machines (the RN have managed to buy them easily enough).
Join Date: Dec 2000
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I just don't understand this thead -
Surely the Occifers would be provided with an Mt Driver to take care of all this type of thing.
I mean - surely they don't allow self drive! - How would that look!
-- I remember being ATC duty driver at RAF Manston during a Financial Moretorium around 1980 ish - ie. We had to book out the vehicles daily on foot! I kid you not!
We had two Landrovers so that meant we had to walk to MT twice!
Only Joking - we wer'nt that stupid - But refuelling was fun. Washing them! - what was that?
Surely the Occifers would be provided with an Mt Driver to take care of all this type of thing.
I mean - surely they don't allow self drive! - How would that look!
-- I remember being ATC duty driver at RAF Manston during a Financial Moretorium around 1980 ish - ie. We had to book out the vehicles daily on foot! I kid you not!
We had two Landrovers so that meant we had to walk to MT twice!
Only Joking - we wer'nt that stupid - But refuelling was fun. Washing them! - what was that?
Originally Posted by southside
Youv'e clearly not been to Devonport and seen the sheds. You drive the boats in....wash em and then drive them out. squeasy peasy
quote=Melchett01]THS
During that time, they do exactly what they are trained and paid to do. When the SAC Scroggs in MT wants to get involved with leadership / management issues, secondary duties and being expected to cover multiple jobs, all taken as being part of your normal daily duties, then I think its fair that I do the washing cars thing.
Isn't that the job that officers are "trained and paid to do"
you cant have it both ways!!!!!
During that time, they do exactly what they are trained and paid to do. When the SAC Scroggs in MT wants to get involved with leadership / management issues, secondary duties and being expected to cover multiple jobs, all taken as being part of your normal daily duties, then I think its fair that I do the washing cars thing.
Isn't that the job that officers are "trained and paid to do"
you cant have it both ways!!!!!
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Motor Car washing
Just got in from my club to find a jolly huge tiff going on about dirty cars! 'parently seems to be a Gentlemen vs players issue. Landed earlier this week after a spot of the old night flying and thought the old kite looked a bit grubby so detailed a little man off do fetch me a bucket of hot, soapy water to wash the old girl down with. Then thought the bally, dirty old Houtchin thingy looks a bit grubby so gave him a good scub, jolly nice chap driving crew wheels even dropped me off near my car ! thought to self " what a splendid fellow you are" gosh, I realised as I disembarked the crew charabanc, best I follow you back to motor stable yard place so I can help you put your carriage to bed clean, ney,ney Sir he cried I'll take care or her for you........
Ihave a full LGV (HGV in old money) and would be more than happy do do a job swap with any 4-eng turbo-prop qualified MT employee. Oh, and I'll even clean the windows for him, It'll save him doing the third wave on NVG's with a windscreen that you wouldn't even drive your car home from work with!!
Come on boy's, as the arguement goes the Staish shouldn't wash his car but OC Ops should, how often do you think the SWO has washed an MT vehicle?
Methinks I detect a smell of burning and it doesn't smell of commissioned Tolpudddle resident.
Load Moving..........
Ihave a full LGV (HGV in old money) and would be more than happy do do a job swap with any 4-eng turbo-prop qualified MT employee. Oh, and I'll even clean the windows for him, It'll save him doing the third wave on NVG's with a windscreen that you wouldn't even drive your car home from work with!!
Come on boy's, as the arguement goes the Staish shouldn't wash his car but OC Ops should, how often do you think the SWO has washed an MT vehicle?
Methinks I detect a smell of burning and it doesn't smell of commissioned Tolpudddle resident.
Load Moving..........
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I was so amazed at some of rhe things being said on this thread I actually registered to make a comment myself. Perhaps a few more points to throw in the melting pot to keep things warm:
1. Most stations have 'Lease' cars, not hire cars- there is a difference, those educated with or without degrees can look that up.
2. MT orders are generally signed off by an Officer who is in charge of all logistics on a unit. Most probably a Wing Commander.
If this subject is so touchy, surely one could approach said WingCo and suggest a change?
As for the rest of the bleating, perhaps if you don't like following the orders (and that really IS the point) and can't be bothered doing something about them, you should get out
1. Most stations have 'Lease' cars, not hire cars- there is a difference, those educated with or without degrees can look that up.
2. MT orders are generally signed off by an Officer who is in charge of all logistics on a unit. Most probably a Wing Commander.
If this subject is so touchy, surely one could approach said WingCo and suggest a change?
As for the rest of the bleating, perhaps if you don't like following the orders (and that really IS the point) and can't be bothered doing something about them, you should get out
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Missing the point?
Am I missing the point????
I thought this was a PILOTs website. If so, I would recommend that the techies, stackers, adminers and other blunties go and find their own whinging website. Should a pilot wash a MT car = No. Why Not? Because he/she worked harder at school than the rest of you, and has better things to do with their incredibly important time. Go and get a life you wasters.......
Any Comments?????
I thought this was a PILOTs website. If so, I would recommend that the techies, stackers, adminers and other blunties go and find their own whinging website. Should a pilot wash a MT car = No. Why Not? Because he/she worked harder at school than the rest of you, and has better things to do with their incredibly important time. Go and get a life you wasters.......
Any Comments?????
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Delta Hotel, Yeah, I'll bite:
From the intro to this forum
'A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here'
Please try and remember we are supposed to work together.
From the intro to this forum
'A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here'
Please try and remember we are supposed to work together.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
TWOL8, I repeat my point if the CONTRACT RULES state . . . the the contractor can REQUEST.
I agree the military MTO can sign ORDERS on behalf of the wg cdr in charge of technical equipments - I lost track of the name after it went from OC Tech Wg - then the sqn ldr ought to obey them if they can do complied with legally.
For a 4am start, let us assume a 5am at MT, then the cleaning process MUST be completed by 1600. How long was the drive? 2 hours each way minimum? Breakfast and Lunch. Dunker. Not many hours left in the day.
Does that MT section provide PPE and instruction on car washing? I repeat the point, H&S and EP rules are non-negotiable.
Other points about relative value of work are also true, an none of this officer-airmen cr*p. It is EXACTLY the same arguement that the airmen have been advancing for 20 years as to why they should not do gate guards.
I agree the military MTO can sign ORDERS on behalf of the wg cdr in charge of technical equipments - I lost track of the name after it went from OC Tech Wg
- then the sqn ldr ought to obey them if they can do complied with legally.For a 4am start, let us assume a 5am at MT, then the cleaning process MUST be completed by 1600. How long was the drive? 2 hours each way minimum? Breakfast and Lunch. Dunker. Not many hours left in the day.
Does that MT section provide PPE and instruction on car washing? I repeat the point, H&S and EP rules are non-negotiable.
Other points about relative value of work are also true, an none of this officer-airmen cr*p. It is EXACTLY the same arguement that the airmen have been advancing for 20 years as to why they should not do gate guards.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by Delta Hotel
Am I missing the point????
I thought this was a PILOTs website. If so, I would recommend that the techies, stackers, adminers and other blunties go and find their own whinging website. Should a pilot wash a MT car = No. Why Not? Because he/she worked harder at school than the rest of you, and has better things to do with their incredibly important time. Go and get a life you wasters.......
Any Comments?????
I thought this was a PILOTs website. If so, I would recommend that the techies, stackers, adminers and other blunties go and find their own whinging website. Should a pilot wash a MT car = No. Why Not? Because he/she worked harder at school than the rest of you, and has better things to do with their incredibly important time. Go and get a life you wasters.......
Any Comments?????
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Originally Posted by Kitbag
I was so amazed at some of rhe things being said on this thread I actually registered to make a comment myself. Perhaps a few more points to throw in the melting pot to keep things warm:
1. Most stations have 'Lease' cars, not hire cars- there is a difference, those educated with or without degrees can look that up.
2. MT orders are generally signed off by an Officer who is in charge of all logistics on a unit. Most probably a Wing Commander.
If this subject is so touchy, surely one could approach said WingCo and suggest a change?
As for the rest of the bleating, perhaps if you don't like following the orders (and that really IS the point) and can't be bothered doing something about them, you should get out
1. Most stations have 'Lease' cars, not hire cars- there is a difference, those educated with or without degrees can look that up.
2. MT orders are generally signed off by an Officer who is in charge of all logistics on a unit. Most probably a Wing Commander.
If this subject is so touchy, surely one could approach said WingCo and suggest a change?
As for the rest of the bleating, perhaps if you don't like following the orders (and that really IS the point) and can't be bothered doing something about them, you should get out
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by theboywide
So your telling pilots who have multi-million pounds worth of training to leave the RAF over MT being too lazy to wash a car. Its arseholes like you that cause us to have such a retention problem. Get a grip
Service personnel can't pick and choose the orders they wish to obey.
As I've already said the obvious solution to this (and probably the safer one considering how knackering I'm led to believe the dunker course is) is to get a driver to do the driving, that really is what they are paid to do after all.
BTW, before any wag comments on how I can manage to reply to these posts whilst being so over-worked (or some such quip) I'm currently sat at home with Scarlet Fever.
'BTW, before any wag comments on how I can manage to reply to these posts whilst being so over-worked (or some such quip) I'm currently sat at home with Scarlet Fever'.
Scarlet Fever, isn't she one of your MT drivers? Are you providing her with your favours so that she will wash your car when you return it to MT? Please let us know the truth!
Scarlet Fever, isn't she one of your MT drivers? Are you providing her with your favours so that she will wash your car when you return it to MT? Please let us know the truth!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Is he actually chosing which orders with which to comply?
More likely he is prioritising. Prioritising goes on all the time and at its basic level is 'not complying with orders'.
"Though shall sign the order books every month" - does this mean before you go flying on the 1st or within one month of the last time you signed them?
Historically it meant that the signature had to be there every month before you flew and of course whenever an order changed. In practise the orders were signed, read or not, but the new orders were always read at least once.
Ideally you sat down and read the orders cover-to-cover. In the MT case this would include the driving of bowsers, refuelling aircraft, towing trailers etc 'cause you signed MT orders, not MT orders for the vehicle you are to take today.
In all tasks we prioritise. "Return this F6000 to PSF by . . . " "Fly a 4-ship . . ." OK one is fun writing devastatingly funny comments that you can put on Pprune as pearls of wisdom and the other is deadly boring - flown once flown 'em all.
Just joking
More likely he is prioritising. Prioritising goes on all the time and at its basic level is 'not complying with orders'.
"Though shall sign the order books every month" - does this mean before you go flying on the 1st or within one month of the last time you signed them?
Historically it meant that the signature had to be there every month before you flew and of course whenever an order changed. In practise the orders were signed, read or not, but the new orders were always read at least once.
Ideally you sat down and read the orders cover-to-cover. In the MT case this would include the driving of bowsers, refuelling aircraft, towing trailers etc 'cause you signed MT orders, not MT orders for the vehicle you are to take today.
In all tasks we prioritise. "Return this F6000 to PSF by . . . " "Fly a 4-ship . . ." OK one is fun writing devastatingly funny comments that you can put on Pprune as pearls of wisdom and the other is deadly boring - flown once flown 'em all.
Just joking
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Originally Posted by Matt Skrossa
'BTW, before any wag comments on how I can manage to reply to these posts whilst being so over-worked (or some such quip) I'm currently sat at home with Scarlet Fever'.
Scarlet Fever, isn't she one of your MT drivers? Are you providing her with your favours so that she will wash your car when you return it to MT? Please let us know the truth!
Scarlet Fever, isn't she one of your MT drivers? Are you providing her with your favours so that she will wash your car when you return it to MT? Please let us know the truth!
s kids to wash his car.