MT RANT
THS
Probably the best reply to that one came from one of our squippers when I arrived on sqn. Had to get some patches put onto uniform and was told that for officers and aircrew, the squippers would do it for them, while the rest of the sqn would have to do it themselves. I did ask about that and the NCO stated that the officers and crews had enough niff-naff and trivia running the sqn to have to sort out minutiae like that so they would happily take one bit of crap of our plates.
And on reflection I can see his point. Your average junior rank comes into work at the appointed time, takes their breaks during the day in addition to lunch and then pokes off at cease work. During that time, they do exactly what they are trained and paid to do. The officers and crews have all the problems associated with leading and managing, that the juniors rarely see - it is our job to divert the flak and triv so they can do their job. Given that,I think it is fair not to expect officers to have to do the triv job like washing cars. When the SAC Scroggs in MT wants to get involved with leadership / management issues, secondary duties and being expected to cover multiple jobs, all taken as being part of your normal daily duties, then I think its fair that I do the washing cars thing.
Nothing to do with a lofty status, all to do with responsibility held by those positions and the associated crap taking up all our time to start with. I'd gladly swap some of my duties for a quiet half hour washing a car in the sun!
Probably the best reply to that one came from one of our squippers when I arrived on sqn. Had to get some patches put onto uniform and was told that for officers and aircrew, the squippers would do it for them, while the rest of the sqn would have to do it themselves. I did ask about that and the NCO stated that the officers and crews had enough niff-naff and trivia running the sqn to have to sort out minutiae like that so they would happily take one bit of crap of our plates.
And on reflection I can see his point. Your average junior rank comes into work at the appointed time, takes their breaks during the day in addition to lunch and then pokes off at cease work. During that time, they do exactly what they are trained and paid to do. The officers and crews have all the problems associated with leading and managing, that the juniors rarely see - it is our job to divert the flak and triv so they can do their job. Given that,I think it is fair not to expect officers to have to do the triv job like washing cars. When the SAC Scroggs in MT wants to get involved with leadership / management issues, secondary duties and being expected to cover multiple jobs, all taken as being part of your normal daily duties, then I think its fair that I do the washing cars thing.
Nothing to do with a lofty status, all to do with responsibility held by those positions and the associated crap taking up all our time to start with. I'd gladly swap some of my duties for a quiet half hour washing a car in the sun!
Last edited by Melchett01; 9th Feb 2006 at 19:35.
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What an incredibly narrow-minded (almost bigoted) comment that shows a complete misunderstanding of the quality of airmen in the Service today. I visited the School of Recruit training last year and met airmen recruits (who will now be 'low ranked people in the Military pyramid') with degrees both at bachelor and at master levels. There are many like them serving throughout the Service. These people can hardly be described as 'people who should have tried harder at school'. I, on the other hand, was thrown out of school before obtaining any A-levels. Perhaps, I should have 'tried harder at school'; but, then again, I am doing pretty well at this officer game.
I am sure that when you were trying hard at school you learnt all about proper nouns - and how the word military isn't one of them.
The simple point of having large quantities of low ranked people in the Military pyramid is so that the menial jobs can be carried out by people they are more suited to. ie people who should have tried harder at school.
I am sure that when you were trying hard at school you learnt all about proper nouns - and how the word military isn't one of them.
)system, that oiks can get degrees nowadays.
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Alternatively rather than squabbling over the Officer/Aircrew/Airman divide find out which prat allowed the 'driver washes car' cr@p, shoot them, and renegotiate the contract - simple, everyone happy. NO-ONE should have to wash a hire car - do Avis expect such service from the punters at LHR?
BTW, if anyone should get perks it should be aircrew of all ranks IMO, us 'guins (be they Officer or Baldric) can get on with the niff-naff and trivia allowing them to perform the duties the organisation is designed for.
er.....am I beginning to sound like BEags?
Quite funny, one of my bosses tried the old 'should have worked harder at school' banter when we were having a heated debate, it was then he found out I had a 2:1 which trumped his 3 in Applied Origami - I still wasn't bright enough to make officer 
BTW, if anyone should get perks it should be aircrew of all ranks IMO, us 'guins (be they Officer or Baldric) can get on with the niff-naff and trivia allowing them to perform the duties the organisation is designed for.
er.....am I beginning to sound like BEags?
What a searing indictment of our current "university" (read polytechnic )system, that oiks can get degrees nowadays.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Just a reminder though, this wash your own vehicle is NOT new. 'twas always thus as far back as I can remember.
Usually the order was honoured in the breach and not the deed. Can't remember a sqn waggon pre 1980 being washed. Remember being astonished at a JO in 8 washing one. Then in the late '80s at Waddo - drive to Germany, drive to Zeebrugge, ferry to Felixstowe, drive to Waddo, wash vehicle.
Really we should have just shoved it through the local car wash. Then again, do you ever get a good clean on your own car, in winter, after dark?
Usually the order was honoured in the breach and not the deed. Can't remember a sqn waggon pre 1980 being washed. Remember being astonished at a JO in 8 washing one. Then in the late '80s at Waddo - drive to Germany, drive to Zeebrugge, ferry to Felixstowe, drive to Waddo, wash vehicle.
Really we should have just shoved it through the local car wash. Then again, do you ever get a good clean on your own car, in winter, after dark?
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So what is your degree then and from what university?
What a searing indictment of our current "university" (read polytechnic )system, that oiks can get degrees nowadays.
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If I am tasked to travel on service business and instructed that it must be done in a 'service sourced' vehicle, then as far as I can see said source should arrange for the appropriate actions to be carried out upon the vehicle's return; will they be expecting me to change the oil and brakes next?
However, if HM allows me to use my car and reimburse my travel costs, then it's my vehicle and I will wash it when, and if, I want to (or will I not be able to claim mileage costs unless I can prove that it has been refuelled and washed).
Not expecting to have to wash the damn thing does not show a lack of respect for colleagues of a lesser rank. It is trivia that I certainly don't have time for - you only have to look at the state of my private car to see that!
Of course the obvious answer is to install automatic car washes at the entrance to every MT section (there'll only be a few stns to worry about in a few years time so it won't cost a great deal of taxpayers money) and then the car can be washed while you sit in it to complete the necessary paperwork.
Where, oh where is this organization going? (maybe they should add an annual VMT (vehicle maintenance test) to go with the everything else- 3 returned dirty cars and it's an admin discharge!)
However, if HM allows me to use my car and reimburse my travel costs, then it's my vehicle and I will wash it when, and if, I want to (or will I not be able to claim mileage costs unless I can prove that it has been refuelled and washed).
Not expecting to have to wash the damn thing does not show a lack of respect for colleagues of a lesser rank. It is trivia that I certainly don't have time for - you only have to look at the state of my private car to see that!
Of course the obvious answer is to install automatic car washes at the entrance to every MT section (there'll only be a few stns to worry about in a few years time so it won't cost a great deal of taxpayers money) and then the car can be washed while you sit in it to complete the necessary paperwork.
Where, oh where is this organization going? (maybe they should add an annual VMT (vehicle maintenance test) to go with the everything else- 3 returned dirty cars and it's an admin discharge!)
Last edited by rej; 9th Feb 2006 at 20:11.
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Climebear, I find the supposition that I might have a degree frankly insulting!
Degrees, as I am sure you are aware, are either for those unfortunate individuals born without sufficient family means to secure them a suitable commision, or revolting social climbers that don't know their place.
I'll have you know I'm neither!
Degrees, as I am sure you are aware, are either for those unfortunate individuals born without sufficient family means to secure them a suitable commision, or revolting social climbers that don't know their place.
I'll have you know I'm neither!
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Or perhaps you just didn't try hard enough at school.
If you are ever given the priviledge of commanding other ranks - I hope for the sake of your Service that nobady has given you it yet - I hope you realise that respect is a 2-way street.
Or perhaps you just didn't try hard enough at school.
If you are ever given the priviledge of commanding other ranks - I hope for the sake of your Service that nobady has given you it yet - I hope you realise that respect is a 2-way street.
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[quote=Melchett01]THS
During that time, they do exactly what they are trained and paid to do. When the SAC Scroggs in MT wants to get involved with leadership / management issues, secondary duties and being expected to cover multiple jobs, all taken as being part of your normal daily duties, then I think its fair that I do the washing cars thing.
Isn't that the job that officers are "trained and paid to do"
you cant have it both ways!!!!!
During that time, they do exactly what they are trained and paid to do. When the SAC Scroggs in MT wants to get involved with leadership / management issues, secondary duties and being expected to cover multiple jobs, all taken as being part of your normal daily duties, then I think its fair that I do the washing cars thing.
Isn't that the job that officers are "trained and paid to do"
you cant have it both ways!!!!!
Perhaps the answer is to follow the procedures I believe the army use (and Helpful Stacker feel free to correct me - assuming you and the Helpful Stacker on the "other" rumour service are one and the same you are ex-army after all).
I believe they do not allow officers to drive as, should they dink a vehicle the only ("legal") recourse is a CM whereas a driver (ie soldier) can be (at the moment) charged. As said officer is not driver he is thus not responsible for the cleaning!
Not an ideal soloution granted, but one that means MT do their job and ageing sqn ldr can have a few pints at lunch to recover from the trauma of being strapped in a rubbish skip, in the dark, tipped upside down in a swimming pool and told he has to wait for all the other occupants to vacate the skip before moving.
I believe they do not allow officers to drive as, should they dink a vehicle the only ("legal") recourse is a CM whereas a driver (ie soldier) can be (at the moment) charged. As said officer is not driver he is thus not responsible for the cleaning!
Not an ideal soloution granted, but one that means MT do their job and ageing sqn ldr can have a few pints at lunch to recover from the trauma of being strapped in a rubbish skip, in the dark, tipped upside down in a swimming pool and told he has to wait for all the other occupants to vacate the skip before moving.
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I'm quite happy with my social position.
Perhaps you need to tighten your grip on reality. By the way, does the atmospheric mix on earth effect you when you are visiting?
I'm quite happy with my social position.
Perhaps you need to tighten your grip on reality. By the way, does the atmospheric mix on earth effect you when you are visiting?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
rej has probably hit the nail on the head when he refers to contracts.
IF the contract says that vehicles will be returned to the contractor is a particular state then it would be quite in order for the contractor ro request that it be done and, if it is not, complain to the CMT. It is not for a civilian contractor, albeit ex-RAF MT perhaps, to demand said sqn ldr, or SAC, to do the cleaning.
Check with the CMT and find out exactly what the MAC says about MT deliverables etc.
IF the contract says that vehicles will be returned to the contractor is a particular state then it would be quite in order for the contractor ro request that it be done and, if it is not, complain to the CMT. It is not for a civilian contractor, albeit ex-RAF MT perhaps, to demand said sqn ldr, or SAC, to do the cleaning.
Check with the CMT and find out exactly what the MAC says about MT deliverables etc.
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Pontius,
It is not for contractor to request said Sqn Ldr to clean the car, but it is for said Sqn Ldr to do as laid out in orders. There is a fine line between too busy and just being lazy, or thinking that type of taek is beneath you.
It is not for contractor to request said Sqn Ldr to clean the car, but it is for said Sqn Ldr to do as laid out in orders. There is a fine line between too busy and just being lazy, or thinking that type of taek is beneath you.
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TWOL 8 - I think you still miss the point. This guy had been on the road since 4am, had a hard time in the Dunker (if you don't know what that is, you're lucky) driven back up the M5/6 - in best/ reasonable clobber, then gets grief for not washing the festering car. I can't believe the RAF has come to this. Contractorisation is probably the major culprit, with jobsworths doing their thing, but I still believe there is a pecking order and expecting this individual - in this situation- to set to with a pressure washer and foam brush when returning a vehicle to MT to be 'beyond the pale'! Rant nearly over. OverTq