Gay Pride?
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Pilgrim101 you swine! I have just had to wash a mouthful of tea off my monitor! Behave, laddie - you really wouldn't want to see it.
Scud: I would just like to make it clear before I sign off that I find Gin utterly repellant and though I abhor the sinful liquid itself, I can forgive the sinners who feel the need to drink the tasteless liquor. Fine Islay malt, on the other hand (Leapfrog, Bruichladdich, Lagavulin, Bowmore - I'm not fussy!) ...
Talking of liquor: Dining-in Night -
Camp Steward to Winco: "Liqueurs Sir?"
Winco to Camp Steward: "Not while I'm still breathing you won't!"
Ah the auld yins are the best
Scud: I would just like to make it clear before I sign off that I find Gin utterly repellant and though I abhor the sinful liquid itself, I can forgive the sinners who feel the need to drink the tasteless liquor. Fine Islay malt, on the other hand (Leapfrog, Bruichladdich, Lagavulin, Bowmore - I'm not fussy!) ...
Talking of liquor: Dining-in Night -
Camp Steward to Winco: "Liqueurs Sir?"
Winco to Camp Steward: "Not while I'm still breathing you won't!"
Ah the auld yins are the best
Something that forges great pride in my gut of the British Armed Forces is their total lack of racism.
After some years and some reflection and some introspection I find that I am proud of members of the British Armed Forces on this forum showing their total lack of homophobia.
Once upon a time it was alright to make racist comments. We now know that to be contrary to the military ethos. I think homosexuality is the new black.
I make my comments not as a Moderator. Just as a never-quite-was service person who is quietly proud of HM Forces.
Cheers
WWW
After some years and some reflection and some introspection I find that I am proud of members of the British Armed Forces on this forum showing their total lack of homophobia.
Once upon a time it was alright to make racist comments. We now know that to be contrary to the military ethos. I think homosexuality is the new black.
I make my comments not as a Moderator. Just as a never-quite-was service person who is quietly proud of HM Forces.
Cheers
WWW
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Just a few disconnected thoughts:-
I thought the Nature/Nurture debate was settled quite conclusively some years ago by a study (John Hopkins/Kinsey Institute?) of identical twins who had been separated, by force of circumstances, at or soon after birth. Identical twins, of course, share common genetic characteristics; but due to their early separation the samples were nurtured quite differently. The study found a striking correlation in sexual orientation within the twin-sets. Also an uncanny deagree of shared skills, tastes and even career paths.
Anyone who has lived in the country and observed the activities of farm animals in the fields would accept that homosexual activity is the natural choice of a proportion of them.
Those who have been raised in a Christian tradition will know that the only sanctioned sexual activity is that between man and wife. All other activity is sinful, and the letters of St Paul are very specific about homosexuality. Nevertheless, we are all sinners, and who is to judge that some sins are more sinful than others?
Some modern churchmen who have liberal views on Gays put themselves through intellectual contortions to get around this one, but only make themselves sound ridiculous.
Gays who join the armed services and perform their duties well should be respected. But they should not parade their proclivities. The culture of the Services is strongly macho-hetero and this cannot be turned around quickly. Banter about gays is not necessarily homohobic.
We swore allegiance to HM the Queen as our monarch (not C in C). Her secondary duty is Supreme Governor of the C of E, so it would be appropriate for her Services to behave in a broadly Christian way (despite the antics that a seemingly large minority of her churchmen get up to!). I do not believe that the Services need worry too much about snide comments from the Metrosexuals, the Islington pseuds, the Guardianista or the BBC. Values in the shires are more permanent, or at least change very slowly. Ten years ago my rural parish, despite the objections of the then Rector (who was Anglo-Catholic), voted to accept if necessary a lady as his successor as Priest in Charge or as Assistant. Later, they voted against the remarriage of divorced persons in our church save in the most extreme circumstances. I am sure they will not accept a gay priest for many years to come.
I thought the Nature/Nurture debate was settled quite conclusively some years ago by a study (John Hopkins/Kinsey Institute?) of identical twins who had been separated, by force of circumstances, at or soon after birth. Identical twins, of course, share common genetic characteristics; but due to their early separation the samples were nurtured quite differently. The study found a striking correlation in sexual orientation within the twin-sets. Also an uncanny deagree of shared skills, tastes and even career paths.
Anyone who has lived in the country and observed the activities of farm animals in the fields would accept that homosexual activity is the natural choice of a proportion of them.
Those who have been raised in a Christian tradition will know that the only sanctioned sexual activity is that between man and wife. All other activity is sinful, and the letters of St Paul are very specific about homosexuality. Nevertheless, we are all sinners, and who is to judge that some sins are more sinful than others?
Some modern churchmen who have liberal views on Gays put themselves through intellectual contortions to get around this one, but only make themselves sound ridiculous.
Gays who join the armed services and perform their duties well should be respected. But they should not parade their proclivities. The culture of the Services is strongly macho-hetero and this cannot be turned around quickly. Banter about gays is not necessarily homohobic.
We swore allegiance to HM the Queen as our monarch (not C in C). Her secondary duty is Supreme Governor of the C of E, so it would be appropriate for her Services to behave in a broadly Christian way (despite the antics that a seemingly large minority of her churchmen get up to!). I do not believe that the Services need worry too much about snide comments from the Metrosexuals, the Islington pseuds, the Guardianista or the BBC. Values in the shires are more permanent, or at least change very slowly. Ten years ago my rural parish, despite the objections of the then Rector (who was Anglo-Catholic), voted to accept if necessary a lady as his successor as Priest in Charge or as Assistant. Later, they voted against the remarriage of divorced persons in our church save in the most extreme circumstances. I am sure they will not accept a gay priest for many years to come.
Short Blunt Shock
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On a separate issue, may I ask why some people in this debate feel the need to preface their comments (usually referring to anal sex) with phrases such as, "While I find the thought of gay sex abhorrent....."?
Sadly the PC brigade have browbeaten most people into silence by crying 'homophobe!' anytime anybody questions the agenda of activists and mouthpieces, hence you never hear the voice of the silent majority.
As I have already said, I have no problem with gays serving in the military. Just get on with your jobs and give the politics a rest, eh? The more you bang on about how 'hard done to' you consider yourselves, the more people like me will find their tolerance being exhausted.
16B
Edited to say: After a bit of research, which has turned up some interesting facts and opinions, I may well have been wrong to use the word 'unnatural' to describe homosexuality (at least without defining explicitly what I understand 'unnatural' to mean). A VERY interesting article (and some responses to the concepts it examines) can be read here. It was published in a conservative-orientated magazine, written by a gay man, and has an obvious right-wing bias. However, I would urge those who consider themselves to be 'liberals' not to be put off by this and give it some attention.
Last edited by 16 blades; 3rd Sep 2005 at 02:03.
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Boys and girls,
I must apologise, I have been out on the road for a few days, earning a crust in the post-MOD fashion. It seems my original comments have provoked quite some degree of comment.
I do unreservedly apologise for the offence that I may have caused to those serving homosexuals, particularly those who joined after "Pink Wednesday". I no longer serve, you do. If you do your job, you have my unqualified respect. You are entitled to it. I am a citizien of the UK, you are servants of it.
However, I was there before you were. I wasn't an officer, I left as an SNCO. In the service, we pride ourselves on tradition. Let me give you some examples:
Thank you Sir, pay correct Sir
RN officers' swords
VC winners' names on RAF barrack blocks
Yellow in certain army regiment/corps colours for retreat
No sergeants in the HCav
Pass the port to the left
Matelots saluting with flat palms
Crabs hate Pongos hate Fishheads (and any comination thereof)
Dog called Nigger buried at RAF Scampton.
Nigger as codeword for successful Moehne breach
All three services pride themselves on history (no matter how short ;-)) If it wasn't there, the RN/Army/RAF would not be what it is today. Anyone care to disagree with me?
In the 300 years or so that the UK has had a cohesive military force, the acceptance of homosexuals is but a recent fad in line with the morals of the country.
As I made clear, I have no problem with homosexuals personally, but it isn't going to change the centuries old military ethos anytime soon. Should we exhume and rename Nigger too?
R
I must apologise, I have been out on the road for a few days, earning a crust in the post-MOD fashion. It seems my original comments have provoked quite some degree of comment.
I do unreservedly apologise for the offence that I may have caused to those serving homosexuals, particularly those who joined after "Pink Wednesday". I no longer serve, you do. If you do your job, you have my unqualified respect. You are entitled to it. I am a citizien of the UK, you are servants of it.
However, I was there before you were. I wasn't an officer, I left as an SNCO. In the service, we pride ourselves on tradition. Let me give you some examples:
Thank you Sir, pay correct Sir
RN officers' swords
VC winners' names on RAF barrack blocks
Yellow in certain army regiment/corps colours for retreat
No sergeants in the HCav
Pass the port to the left
Matelots saluting with flat palms
Crabs hate Pongos hate Fishheads (and any comination thereof)
Dog called Nigger buried at RAF Scampton.
Nigger as codeword for successful Moehne breach
All three services pride themselves on history (no matter how short ;-)) If it wasn't there, the RN/Army/RAF would not be what it is today. Anyone care to disagree with me?
In the 300 years or so that the UK has had a cohesive military force, the acceptance of homosexuals is but a recent fad in line with the morals of the country.
As I made clear, I have no problem with homosexuals personally, but it isn't going to change the centuries old military ethos anytime soon. Should we exhume and rename Nigger too?
R
L'enfant Terrible
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Many of those exhorting their Richard Littlejohnesque abhorrence at what gay men get up to in the bedroom (or anywhere else) seem to have put a little more thought into what goes on than might be healthy. I can't say I've ever really considered what they physically do as I doesn't have any effect on me.
I can only recall the wave of apathy that ran over me when a good mate (good officer and good pilot to boot) outed himself to us on a night out. He was a mate 5 minutes before and has continued to be so since.
Perhaps people such as Flap62 should question what they'd do were their best mate to suddenly break the same news. Indeed, how would they wish to be treated (as a friend and a professional) were they to be the ones coming out. Not that that'd be you Flaps, you're repeated assertion of your 'red bloodedness' has us all convinced.
I can only recall the wave of apathy that ran over me when a good mate (good officer and good pilot to boot) outed himself to us on a night out. He was a mate 5 minutes before and has continued to be so since.
Perhaps people such as Flap62 should question what they'd do were their best mate to suddenly break the same news. Indeed, how would they wish to be treated (as a friend and a professional) were they to be the ones coming out. Not that that'd be you Flaps, you're repeated assertion of your 'red bloodedness' has us all convinced.
Just after Pink Wednesday, I suggested to the Boss that we ough to put the 'new policy' to the test by waiting until some pompous Very Senior Wheel turned up, then getting someone to stare at a passing airman before announcing "Nice ar$e on that, eh Boss?" in order to see the VSW's reaction.....
It was decided that this might, upon reflection, be perhaps rather too robust a test for the new policy!
Regarding the name of that well-known and long-dead black labrador, once upon a time there was a chap on one of the CFS courses from the Nigerian Air Force. Who had a very, very mischievous sense of humour. On the way down to the squadron after morning met, he was chatting with the sqn boss. As they passed the grave, the Nigeria mate, pretending not to know what it was, asked the boss about it.....
The sqn boss explained about the Dams raid and that the beloved pet of the gallant Wg Cdr had been killed on the eve of the raid.
"Really?" exclaimed the Nigerian mate, "What was his name?"
"Guy Gibson", replied the boss.
"And the dog?" asked the Nigerian, with an air of total innocence.....
Much spluttering and stammering from the boss - until he saw the wicked grin appearing on the Nigerian mate's face!
It was decided that this might, upon reflection, be perhaps rather too robust a test for the new policy!
Regarding the name of that well-known and long-dead black labrador, once upon a time there was a chap on one of the CFS courses from the Nigerian Air Force. Who had a very, very mischievous sense of humour. On the way down to the squadron after morning met, he was chatting with the sqn boss. As they passed the grave, the Nigeria mate, pretending not to know what it was, asked the boss about it.....
The sqn boss explained about the Dams raid and that the beloved pet of the gallant Wg Cdr had been killed on the eve of the raid.
"Really?" exclaimed the Nigerian mate, "What was his name?"
"Guy Gibson", replied the boss.
"And the dog?" asked the Nigerian, with an air of total innocence.....
Much spluttering and stammering from the boss - until he saw the wicked grin appearing on the Nigerian mate's face!
Last edited by BEagle; 3rd Sep 2005 at 09:01.
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Beags
Another instance of modern PC tosh is people changing the lyric of Leadbelly's mighty song "The Bourgeois Blues".
The song records Leadbelly and the folklorist Alan Lomax and their families' attempts to find a hotel in Washington DC in 1933 when Lomax took Leadbelly up to record his songs for the Library of Congress.
It actually records both their disgust as they could find no hotel (black or white) which would accommodate both their family parties together.
The repellant modern fad is to rip the heart out of the song by changing the line "We don't want no niggers 'round here" to "We don't want no black folks 'round here"! Actually, the word nigger was used by Leadbelly to describe how both he and the (white) Lomax were made to feel.
Another instance of modern PC tosh is people changing the lyric of Leadbelly's mighty song "The Bourgeois Blues".
The song records Leadbelly and the folklorist Alan Lomax and their families' attempts to find a hotel in Washington DC in 1933 when Lomax took Leadbelly up to record his songs for the Library of Congress.
It actually records both their disgust as they could find no hotel (black or white) which would accommodate both their family parties together.
The repellant modern fad is to rip the heart out of the song by changing the line "We don't want no niggers 'round here" to "We don't want no black folks 'round here"! Actually, the word nigger was used by Leadbelly to describe how both he and the (white) Lomax were made to feel.
Lenny Henry used the same line in a mock 'good ol' boy South state USA' accent in his made-for-TV road movie 'Coast-to-coast' after an hotelier tried to tell him that they had no rooms. But then continued in broadest Brummie "Well, tough $hit - you've got one and you'll have to put up with it!" or words to that effect!
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Ouch
My poor ears are reeling at all the derogatory terminology being used to describe gays, blacks, Pakistanis, WWW Style Welshmen (
), Jocks et al. What happened to the old sticks and stones ethos.... ?
Also, has anyone else noticed the insidious shift in Hollywood bad guys from Russians, wild eyed Iranians, Moslem fanatics, Farrakhan caricature goons, Caribbean Yardies, Rastafarians, etc to, wait for it, wait for it, Alan Rickmanesque Englishmen ???? Perhaps the English are the only race who don't take offence and the litigious process against the movie moguls ?
My poor ears are reeling at all the derogatory terminology being used to describe gays, blacks, Pakistanis, WWW Style Welshmen (
), Jocks et al. What happened to the old sticks and stones ethos.... ?Also, has anyone else noticed the insidious shift in Hollywood bad guys from Russians, wild eyed Iranians, Moslem fanatics, Farrakhan caricature goons, Caribbean Yardies, Rastafarians, etc to, wait for it, wait for it, Alan Rickmanesque Englishmen ???? Perhaps the English are the only race who don't take offence and the litigious process against the movie moguls ?
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Pilgrim
Being a Scotsman and, like my Cymric cousins in the Service, being accustomed to regularly being accused by my Sassunach brothers in arms of having an unhealthy interest in sheep; being a poofter seemed to me to be a positive step up the sexual social scale!
Being a Scotsman and, like my Cymric cousins in the Service, being accustomed to regularly being accused by my Sassunach brothers in arms of having an unhealthy interest in sheep; being a poofter seemed to me to be a positive step up the sexual social scale!
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AT
As one fluent in Jockinese too, I can identify with those accusations regarding sheep, wellington boots, mountain ledges etc etc. However, being heterosexual (but with dirty habits !
) I just ignored them and countered with the fact that I only went out with ewes.
Not "youse" you understand, but female shee...... (hole, digging, stop !)
As one fluent in Jockinese too, I can identify with those accusations regarding sheep, wellington boots, mountain ledges etc etc. However, being heterosexual (but with dirty habits !
) I just ignored them and countered with the fact that I only went out with ewes. Not "youse" you understand, but female shee...... (hole, digging, stop !)
...
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I don't have a problem with homosexuals in the military, or anywhere else for that matter.
What I do have a problem with, is when I am told it should be accepted as normal behavior.
Oh and the continued misuse of the word Gay. Gay means carefree, mirthful, happy etc.......or least it used to
What I do have a problem with, is when I am told it should be accepted as normal behavior.
Oh and the continued misuse of the word Gay. Gay means carefree, mirthful, happy etc.......or least it used to
TAC Int Bloke
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Aww come on BB, Gay means cheerful? Either you're older than Beags (unlikely) or protesting too much like a few here! Sing if you’re glad to be……..
I'm told on good authority the difference between heterosexual and bi-curious is eight pints.................
I'm told on good authority the difference between heterosexual and bi-curious is eight pints.................
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Maybe it's because we DO. And it's not just anal sex - I find the thought of a man touching another man in ANY sexual way physically sickening, as do most normal blokes.
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"Being a Scotsman and, like my Cymric cousins in the Service, being accustomed to regularly being accused by my Sassunach "brothers in arms of having an unhealthy interest in sheep; being a poofter seemed to me to be a positive step up the sexual social scale!"
No bl@@dy way as I think you will find that "EVERY" hetro sexual man on the planet could produce a believable and credible reason for being caught "in" a sheep but try justifying being caught "in"a bloke................who's going to belive that load of old tosh
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
No bl@@dy way as I think you will find that "EVERY" hetro sexual man on the planet could produce a believable and credible reason for being caught "in" a sheep but try justifying being caught "in"a bloke................who's going to belive that load of old tosh
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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ABIW
This I've got to hear! This thread's in danger of getting too heavy anyway.
It's Saturday night and it's curry time, so I'm off. However, I can think of nothing more entertaining than returning @ silly o'clock, full of Rougan Josh, awash with Guinness and Lagavulin, and reading your 'innocent' explanations for being caught in flagrante with Flossie!
This I've got to hear! This thread's in danger of getting too heavy anyway.
It's Saturday night and it's curry time, so I'm off. However, I can think of nothing more entertaining than returning @ silly o'clock, full of Rougan Josh, awash with Guinness and Lagavulin, and reading your 'innocent' explanations for being caught in flagrante with Flossie!
Lamb Rogan Josh - or Lamb Rogering Jock?
It will indeed be interesting to learn from ABiW of a plausible excuse to be caught 'mutton en mouton'.....
Enjoy the Mars Bar samosas!
It will indeed be interesting to learn from ABiW of a plausible excuse to be caught 'mutton en mouton'.....
Enjoy the Mars Bar samosas!