Movers v Loadies (Merged)
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6N,
Thanks for your last post .Yes I suppose it was you and ABIW that kicked this off but I am equally culpable for taking the bait.
I started this thread in good faith and like yourself thought it would be a good source of banter.The best laid plans however !!
Just one thing in conclusion. I have read and re-read all of the posts and unless I have missed something I cannot see where anyone has stated that they as a Mover would automatically become a candidate for ALM.
I'll shut up now.
Thanks for your last post .Yes I suppose it was you and ABIW that kicked this off but I am equally culpable for taking the bait.
I started this thread in good faith and like yourself thought it would be a good source of banter.The best laid plans however !!
Just one thing in conclusion. I have read and re-read all of the posts and unless I have missed something I cannot see where anyone has stated that they as a Mover would automatically become a candidate for ALM.
I'll shut up now.
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For Muppet Leader - a heartfelt thank you to movers from all VC10/Tristar aircrew.
We always loved that 0200 wakeup call so that we could fly to Akrotiri in time to offload, turnround and depart in time for you lot of wasters to sod off down to the beach at 1400L.
We always loved that 0200 wakeup call so that we could fly to Akrotiri in time to offload, turnround and depart in time for you lot of wasters to sod off down to the beach at 1400L.
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To All, I'm not a loadie or a mover,
However, when was the last mover that got 'E' cat'ed? Was it the last giggling (female) Fg Off Mover @ LCRA who apologised to me 'cos my aerothingy only got 9000' instead of 25,000',ooops these poundy kilos thingys are sooo terribly complicated when your as pretty and blonde as I am, or was it the ALM who got stiched by some really sad 'aircrew mate' who spotted his harness wasn't attached to the the correct floor point.
To ALM's - Be nice to pax and if you can avoid treading on them just after they've got their head down that's cool. P.S. If the hyd sys has dumped the ACAWS might mention it.
To Movers,
Errr, b@gger, I'm redundant, the Flt Lt O i/c Baggage Handling obviously becomes the a/c cdr, the Flt Sgt looks after ATSY, ah no the Flt Sgt ATSY does that, so the Flt Sgt looks after the Sgt who looks after the 2 Cpls who looks after the SAC.
AL1.
L/Cpl Helpful (47AD), is in charge of 3 Pvte's putting stuff on aircraft, and er, f@ck which tw@t put the crew's bags on, raid the rations and f@ck off, (1st in, last out!) UKBagagehandlersmoto.
Any customers, UKBAGS excluded, have a good word?.
However, when was the last mover that got 'E' cat'ed? Was it the last giggling (female) Fg Off Mover @ LCRA who apologised to me 'cos my aerothingy only got 9000' instead of 25,000',ooops these poundy kilos thingys are sooo terribly complicated when your as pretty and blonde as I am, or was it the ALM who got stiched by some really sad 'aircrew mate' who spotted his harness wasn't attached to the the correct floor point.
To ALM's - Be nice to pax and if you can avoid treading on them just after they've got their head down that's cool. P.S. If the hyd sys has dumped the ACAWS might mention it.
To Movers,
Errr, b@gger, I'm redundant, the Flt Lt O i/c Baggage Handling obviously becomes the a/c cdr, the Flt Sgt looks after ATSY, ah no the Flt Sgt ATSY does that, so the Flt Sgt looks after the Sgt who looks after the 2 Cpls who looks after the SAC.
AL1.
L/Cpl Helpful (47AD), is in charge of 3 Pvte's putting stuff on aircraft, and er, f@ck which tw@t put the crew's bags on, raid the rations and f@ck off, (1st in, last out!) UKBagagehandlersmoto.
Any customers, UKBAGS excluded, have a good word?.
Now look - do let's get some fairness here. There are good and bad, eager and lazy in most trades......
Good Movs: The chaps who managed to unload, break down, rebuild and reload some very 'busy' pallets in Freetown in the roasting heat - whilst all the ALM did was moan about why we were taking back a 'non-military' passenger and tried to find a reason not to. This was a merchant mariner involved with the ongoing Op; so I told the ALM we were taking him no matter what, to stop bitching and to look after the movs team who were working hard to get us away on time.
Bad Movs: The witch at ASI who decided to offload one of my ATSY coppers who had just spent a couple of days guarding the ac in Africa so that she could put a 'high priority' passenger on board. "He can get the next Herc back" was her attitude. Fortunately we made contact with the southbound Timmy on its way in to ASI and asked them if they could speak to their chums who were due to operate the northbound Tommy a couple of hours later and whether they could get our Plod on as crew. This they did - and he got the last laugh as the Tommy went back pedal-to-the-metal and was home a few minutes before us as we'd had to stage via Dakar! But why didn't the MovO think of that?
Good Movs: The chaps who managed to unload, break down, rebuild and reload some very 'busy' pallets in Freetown in the roasting heat - whilst all the ALM did was moan about why we were taking back a 'non-military' passenger and tried to find a reason not to. This was a merchant mariner involved with the ongoing Op; so I told the ALM we were taking him no matter what, to stop bitching and to look after the movs team who were working hard to get us away on time.
Bad Movs: The witch at ASI who decided to offload one of my ATSY coppers who had just spent a couple of days guarding the ac in Africa so that she could put a 'high priority' passenger on board. "He can get the next Herc back" was her attitude. Fortunately we made contact with the southbound Timmy on its way in to ASI and asked them if they could speak to their chums who were due to operate the northbound Tommy a couple of hours later and whether they could get our Plod on as crew. This they did - and he got the last laugh as the Tommy went back pedal-to-the-metal and was home a few minutes before us as we'd had to stage via Dakar! But why didn't the MovO think of that?
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Movers v Loadies
I see that this thread is still degenerating, although as usual Beagle has tried to instil a bit of common sense, as a civilian loadie and retired mover of 25 years, I have seen both sides of the coin and there are undoubtedly both good and bad movers/loadies, however there are also both good and bad "front end crew" such as dummy run and moggie who seem to excel at slagging off movers.
why dont we put this particular thread to bed and stop causing anymosity between 2 trades which have to work closely together to get a difficult job done.
why dont we put this particular thread to bed and stop causing anymosity between 2 trades which have to work closely together to get a difficult job done.
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Always remember the crusty old MLM who called in at our cushy Det before flying on to the sharp end of an Op. I helped him and his mates convey 2 car loads of duty free stuff to the Herc for their Xmas bash back home in Blighty, but when asked if he could take 2 slabs of beers to the ground lads at the sharp end, took a deep breath and said "It's more than my jobs worth". Tw@t!!!
Funniest bit was when UK MAMS bloke dragged the MALM to one side and threatened to kick 2 tons of what loadies are full of, out of him. Still no joy so my UK MAMS pal threatened to call customs back in the UK. MALM, with his nose put out then backed down. Shame that the idiot couldn't give a flying f@ck about the guys at the sharp end.
Both have a job to do, but Movers, in my experience, have a more flexible attitude without being full of their own self importance.
Funniest bit was when UK MAMS bloke dragged the MALM to one side and threatened to kick 2 tons of what loadies are full of, out of him. Still no joy so my UK MAMS pal threatened to call customs back in the UK. MALM, with his nose put out then backed down. Shame that the idiot couldn't give a flying f@ck about the guys at the sharp end.
Both have a job to do, but Movers, in my experience, have a more flexible attitude without being full of their own self importance.
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Can't help but think that there is another side to this story. Perhaps the boys at the said sharp end were not allowed a few slabs, maybe there were in an arabic nation. Just goes to prove that there is more than one aspect to every tale.
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I know this thread is getting a tad tiresome now - but I would just like someone to clear something up for me, ideally ML. Just perusing the profiles of certain contributors and I am a little confused as to one of the alleged units worked on by ML, namely the one involving a highly clandestine (not) outfit in wilts? Since when have movers been assigned there? And no this isn't a dig I'm just trying to work it all through, bit confused... Furthermore - re the comment on an earlier input about loading duties and responsibilities - Now change aircraft type...... C17. Please make sure one's facts are entirely accurate - not sure any of the guys over there would agree with you.
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Well Ralf Wiggum yet another Mover to start a slanging match between our 2 trades! Im sure there are plenty of aircrew out there that can give similar stories where the aircrew come off worse.
Question.. Is it true that when cars indulge out the owners usually donate a crate of beer (to the movers and aircrew)? Ive never seen any of it if it is.
M134... without sounding stupid.. What on Earth are you on about?
Globefan... Good point about the C17. I seem to remember a meeting when the C17 was being discussed. The questions was raised about a second Loadmaster. A Mover stood up and said he thought it should be a Mover. A certain pilot who is on Hercs told him to sit down and shut up. (It might not be true but I did hear it from said Pilot)
Question.. Is it true that when cars indulge out the owners usually donate a crate of beer (to the movers and aircrew)? Ive never seen any of it if it is.
M134... without sounding stupid.. What on Earth are you on about?
Globefan... Good point about the C17. I seem to remember a meeting when the C17 was being discussed. The questions was raised about a second Loadmaster. A Mover stood up and said he thought it should be a Mover. A certain pilot who is on Hercs told him to sit down and shut up. (It might not be true but I did hear it from said Pilot)
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BORED
Can we start on someone else now?
How about K v J
Oh sorry apparently we have done that already.
How about the admin peeps.
Oh sorry apparently we have done that as well.
I know lets all get together and have a fight.
Oh the wife has just told me that we have just done that for real.
No, No wait I have it.
How about starting a thread about people who don’t look at PP
That way it will never get nasty.
P.S. I think you are all great.
Obviously that does not include Co-Pilots
Can we start on someone else now?
How about K v J
Oh sorry apparently we have done that already.
How about the admin peeps.
Oh sorry apparently we have done that as well.
I know lets all get together and have a fight.
Oh the wife has just told me that we have just done that for real.
No, No wait I have it.
How about starting a thread about people who don’t look at PP
That way it will never get nasty.
P.S. I think you are all great.
Obviously that does not include Co-Pilots
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Hmm... where on earth did this thread spring up from? I thought that movers and loadies worked well together. In fact a good example of this is the A400M where for once they (the customer) seem to have got the right people for the job at the earliest opportunity. I mean there are both Loadies and Movers designing the freight bay as we speak and a damm good job they are making of it too. Unlike the J model farce where the subject matter experts for the back end were pilots and hence we ended up with a crock of ****.
Anyway, the bottom line is that ALMs are employed to check the work of Movers - period.
ps. I am always suspiscious of ppruners who have handles that indicate they are full of their own self importance - get my drift Muppet Leader!!
Anyway, the bottom line is that ALMs are employed to check the work of Movers - period.
ps. I am always suspiscious of ppruners who have handles that indicate they are full of their own self importance - get my drift Muppet Leader!!
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Still Stackers regardless of their job description.................
PS. If movers are Sooooo good, why do many of us still have to endure the surreal South Cerney experience?
PS. If movers are Sooooo good, why do many of us still have to endure the surreal South Cerney experience?
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Wow!
What a great site, I have never seen so much banter between Aircrew/Loadies and Movers..........
Movers, keep up the good work!!!
Loadies, try to do some work!!!
More to follow...........
Mines a large Keo!!!
What a great site, I have never seen so much banter between Aircrew/Loadies and Movers..........
Movers, keep up the good work!!!
Loadies, try to do some work!!!
More to follow...........
Mines a large Keo!!!
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c130 WSO sorry ALM!
Nearly 30 years ago the practice of donating two crates of beer was started at Akrotiri by the grateful car owners not the movers. One crate went to the MT fitter who prepped the car and the other was shared between the Booking Centre and the boys who loaded it. The practice no longer exists as it could be misconstrued as a bribe. I cannot imagine why a 43K Airman Aircrew would begrudge this. Sadly approx 5% of all cars arriving back at Brize or Lye have been damaged by someone standing on the roof to take a fatigue reading, sliding their bags over the bonnet or leaving their in-flight rubbish inside.
C17 - another good topic. You may recall that in the beginning the movers attending the course at Altus AFB were also going to complete the flying phase until professional jealousy intervened. It wasn't a case of them not being able but of future implications....
Still thinks there are good and bad on both sides out there. Most of the moaners seemed to be Masters apart from Tac Queen God Bless Her.....
Nearly 30 years ago the practice of donating two crates of beer was started at Akrotiri by the grateful car owners not the movers. One crate went to the MT fitter who prepped the car and the other was shared between the Booking Centre and the boys who loaded it. The practice no longer exists as it could be misconstrued as a bribe. I cannot imagine why a 43K Airman Aircrew would begrudge this. Sadly approx 5% of all cars arriving back at Brize or Lye have been damaged by someone standing on the roof to take a fatigue reading, sliding their bags over the bonnet or leaving their in-flight rubbish inside.
C17 - another good topic. You may recall that in the beginning the movers attending the course at Altus AFB were also going to complete the flying phase until professional jealousy intervened. It wasn't a case of them not being able but of future implications....
Still thinks there are good and bad on both sides out there. Most of the moaners seemed to be Masters apart from Tac Queen God Bless Her.....
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Once again it seems that rumour has somehow clouded the truth regarding the movers role on the C-17. It is true that in the early days of the project it was planned to have 6 "super movers " on the C-17 Sqn as well as 6 stewards for larger pax loads. It was then realised that 6 loadies could actually fill both sets of shoes so the Sqn was given 6 more loadies instead. No professional jealousy just common sense.
Again it is true that four movers did attend Altus AFB but were never to my knowledge planned to complete the flying course just a short (3 week) load planning and loading course. Two were from JATE and the other two set up the C-17 movs cell upon their return. Currently only two of the original four are involved with the C-17 and this will shortly go down to one. All training is now carried out by the Movs School and 99 Sqn.
C-17 Alm's and movers now work side by side to achieve a common goal. No loading operations may commence without a loadie present and completing a brief with the qualified C-17 movs supervisor (SNCO). I had my doubts about the system when first set up and it has not been without it's set backs but for the most part we now have a good working relationship. Instead of just slagging each other off when a problem arises we discuss it.
At the end of the day we are both here to stay, without the movs a 16hr crew duty day could be much longer if you have to build your own pallets and without the loadies the aircraft would never get off the ground....................
Maybe some of the other aircraft types and movs that seem to be complaining about who should do what could learn to compromise, it's not as hard as you might think.
For my first post I think that’s enough
Again it is true that four movers did attend Altus AFB but were never to my knowledge planned to complete the flying course just a short (3 week) load planning and loading course. Two were from JATE and the other two set up the C-17 movs cell upon their return. Currently only two of the original four are involved with the C-17 and this will shortly go down to one. All training is now carried out by the Movs School and 99 Sqn.
C-17 Alm's and movers now work side by side to achieve a common goal. No loading operations may commence without a loadie present and completing a brief with the qualified C-17 movs supervisor (SNCO). I had my doubts about the system when first set up and it has not been without it's set backs but for the most part we now have a good working relationship. Instead of just slagging each other off when a problem arises we discuss it.
At the end of the day we are both here to stay, without the movs a 16hr crew duty day could be much longer if you have to build your own pallets and without the loadies the aircraft would never get off the ground....................
Maybe some of the other aircraft types and movs that seem to be complaining about who should do what could learn to compromise, it's not as hard as you might think.
For my first post I think that’s enough